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Thread: Question on CCW

  1. #1
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    Simple question.
    Can you carry a backup or are you simply restricted to a single concealed firearm.
    I have read through the firearm laws several times and can find no reference to a number of weapons allowed to be carried. And the permit does say "Concealed Weapons Permit". Could that be interpreted as a reference to the different types of weapons permitted or just that you may carry "weapons" on your person.
    Does anyone have a solid answer? It seems to me that if you can conceal it, you can carry it.

    Also, while it is on my mind. Who would we contact about businesses that have obscurely placed signs. There is a movie theater in Spartanburg that has the proper format signs but they are inconspicuously placed where hardly anyone would ever notice them.

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    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    You can carry as many concealable weapons as you can carry concealed. For me that means ususally two and sometimes three.

    If a sign meets the requirement of the law based on size, color, text, etc but is "obscurely placed", then the sign does not meet the lawful standard required to make it enforcable. Why would you tell a business that their sign does not carry the weight of law so they can fix it? Sometimes the best thing you can say is nothing at all. It sounds to me like this might be one of those times. Think about it.

    SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.
    (A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.
    (B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:
    (1) clearly visible from outside the building;
    (2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;
    (3) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black one-inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;
    (4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal;
    (5) a diameter of a circle; and
    (6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building's entrance door.
    (C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:
    (1) thirty-six inches wide by forty-eight inches tall in size;
    (2) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black three- inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;
    (3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty-four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;
    (4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety-six inches above the ground;
    (5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    Thats good to know. I like backup pistols rather than extra clips.

    And the reason I ask about the sign is that it may actually fall within the required specs. The one that could possibly dq it is the distance from the door. Ive been trying to remember how close the door was in relation to it.
    It is Spartan 16 if anyone is wondering. And the way they have it is on in the corner of the ticket booth on the sides facing away from the road. You dont see it until you get your ticket and actually stand next to one of the doors.
    With it being so questionable, I dont want myself or someone else to get caught in a situation where it could come back to bite them. It could be that it may fall in line with the laws but its right on the very edge. And if they are going to do it, they need to make it more visible. Just means that Ill be taking my $$ elsewhere though.

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    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    DJ wrote:
    Thats good to know. I like backup pistols rather than extra clips.

    And the reason I ask about the sign is that it may actually fall within the required specs. The one that could possibly dq it is the distance from the door. Ive been trying to remember how close the door was in relation to it.
    It is Spartan 16 if anyone is wondering. And the way they have it is on in the corner of the ticket booth on the sides facing away from the road. You dont see it until you get your ticket and actually stand next to one of the doors.
    With it being so questionable, I dont want myself or someone else to get caught in a situation where it could come back to bite them. It could be that it may fall in line with the laws but its right on the very edge. And if they are going to do it, they need to make it more visible. Just means that Ill be taking my $$ elsewhere though.
    1. Please get some pictures of the sign(s) in question and post them.

    2. Also, a location in your profile would be good for future posts in the non-South Carolina forums.

    3. Are you a member of GrassRoots GunRights yet? It just as if not more important to support your only state specific organization as it is to support GOA, NRA, etc.

    http://www.scfirearms.org/
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    I was finally able to swing by during the day. Sorry for the bad pics. You can still see in relation to the door where the signs are and how stupid the placement is. This is going to get someone in trouble one day.
    I can say that from what Ive always seen. Hardly anyone uses the doors directly next to the ticket booth. So why would anyone ever see them? The first few times I went, I looked all over the doors and never saw them. It was just by chance that I saw them the last time I went.

    Just look for the red arrow. It didnt come out as bright as I thought it would when it converted to jpeg.


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    The signs are non-compliant. Their location may be okay in relation to the doors they are next to, but they're too far away from the other double doors, based on what your pics show.

    You can lawfully CC into the theater. My question is, why go somewhere that apparently doesn't want the money of good, law abiding citizens like you?
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    I thought the distance would be the deal breaker too. But if they consider it to be any distance from an entry door base, it seems like it is withing the required distance.
    The ONLY reason Ill be going there is to see a showing of Avatar in 3D. Im going to try and get closer pics then. maybe scale it and see exactly how far away it is.



    _________
    SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.
    .
    .
    .
    (B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:

    (1) clearly visible from outside the building;
    .
    .
    .
    (6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building’s entrance door.
    __________

    These are the guidelines I question. If those two single doors weren't directly on the side of the booth, the sign would be invalid for certain. But I think it falls between 40"-60". However, I believe it could be contested that it is NOT clearly visible from the outside of the building.

    Hmm...makes me wonder if Westgate mall is in compliance with the regulations. I know they have signs and stickers up with the pistol and cross through it, but I dont know that it says "No Concealable Weapons".

    Thats one of the primary reason I will not go to there. Thats the last place ANYONE needs to go in unarmed.

  8. #8
    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    DJ,

    You missed this, which may be the single most important sentence. It most certainly is in this instance;

    B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:

    There is no signage displayed at the two outer doors (and probably the reear exits and service door either) so the others are not enforcable.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    Hello all,
    I sure I may be wrong about his and hope I am, but when I got my SC CWP I thought I was taught that any where an "admission" was charged, like a theater or ball park or state fair for example concealed carry was illegal like government buildings in the state that do not have to post the the signage. Please help bring me up to speed with current SC law.
    Thanks to all in advance

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    I talked with an officer and a guard at a local mall about some of the things I was questioning.
    Basically what I was told was that due to a statute being put in place a year or so ago(my terminology is probably off), any place saying anything about no weapons allowed is enough to get you in deep trouble should you choose to ignore signs that arent up to specs.
    That was told to me by a guard and a local officer.

    The guard said that they can simply say "No weapons" at any entrance that is directly into the mall and if you choose to ignore that, you are in trouble. Its put in place for most malls to "protect the chain stores inside". However, Im sure as you all know, most major stores that are attached to malls that have their own entrances dont bother with signs. Thats when you see them at the mall entrance from any one of those stores.

    Seems to me that the whole thing is effed up since we are taught by most instructors to look out for those signs.

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    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    carryall wrote:
    Hello all,
    I sure I may be wrong about his and hope I am, but when I got my SC CWP I thought I was taught that any where an "admission" was charged, like a theater or ball park or state fair for example concealed carry was illegal like government buildings in the state that do not have to post the the signage. Please help bring me up to speed with current SC law.
    Thanks to all in advance
    Unless you can show me a law that was written, passed and put into effect in the last couple of days, you are indeed incorrect.

    However, to the best of my knowledgethat restrictionwould apply for North Carolina.

    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c023.htm

    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.htm
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    DJ wrote:
    I talked with an officer and a guard at a local mall about some of the things I was questioning.
    Basically what I was told was that due to a statute being put in place a year or so ago(my terminology is probably off), any place saying anything about no weapons allowed is enough to get you in deep trouble should you choose to ignore signs that arent up to specs.
    That was told to me by a guard and a local officer.

    The guard said that they can simply say "No weapons" at any entrance that is directly into the mall and if you choose to ignore that, you are in trouble. Its put in place for most malls to "protect the chain stores inside". However, Im sure as you all know, most major stores that are attached to malls that have their own entrances dont bother with signs. Thats when you see them at the mall entrance from any one of those stores.

    Seems to me that the whole thing is effed up since we are taught by most instructors to look out for those signs.
    "Seems to me the whole thing is effed up" since you're taking the word of someone who has no reason or duty to tell you the truth, and you're ignorance of the matter allows them to do so. Simply stated, the "guard and local officer" are giving you incorrect information, either through their own ignorance of the law or because they're intentionally misleading you. My guess is that it's a combination of both.

    23-31-235 very clearly states what the signage requirement is. I suggest you read it, carefully, so you know exactly what it says. And then don't take it upon yourself to notify your two information sources so that they can see that proper signage is posted.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    Sorry the guard and cop are wrong. The sign must be a specific size and wording and must hace a circle with gun inside and crossed out. My instructor said 80 % of signs in SC were wrong and theorectially could be ignored. Follow the law. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by hp-hobo View Post
    carryall wrote:
    Unless you can show me a law that was written, passed and put into effect in the last couple of days, you are indeed incorrect.

    However, to the best of my knowledgethat restrictionwould apply for North Carolina.

    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c023.htm

    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.htm
    Good call. The ban on carry inside places that charge admission does apply to North Carolina, and I have never seen a statute that covers this in SC law.

    Follow the law on any signage. Looks like you can go through the other doors to that theater and be absolutely lawful in SC.

    As far as signs go, many malls in the Raleigh, NC area post on some doors and don't post on others. That works great for me due to the fact that in NC, just like SC, signs have to be posted at every entrance. Always park near and enter through the doors that aren't posted. And don't bring it up with management or point it out to security. Let's keep the signs the way they are until they all come down.

    The sign placement on random doors is so idiotic in most places in NC that I think property management does it on purpose. People that don't know the law feel all warm inside that there could never be any guns on premises, while those folks that know the law recognize the opening management has given them and are able to lawfully carry.

    As an aside, www.handgunlaw.us is a great first place to look for state gun laws. They have great summaries of the state laws as well as embedded links to the actual statues. It is a must read for ANY state you are living in or travelling to.
    Last edited by skipbadger; 10-20-2010 at 11:09 AM. Reason: c

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    Just realized that those doors that aren't posted are most likely exit only. The doors that are posted funnel customers to the employees that take tickets, the doors that aren't posted are exits for the moviegoers that are leaving the theater.

    Sucks.

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    South Carolina's sign law

    SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.

    (A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.

    (B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:

    (1) clearly visible from outside the building;

    (2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;

    (3) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black one-inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

    (4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal;

    (5) a diameter of a circle; and

    (6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building's entrance door.

    (C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:

    (1) thirty-six inches wide by forty-eight inches tall in size;

    (2) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black three- inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

    (3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty-four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;

    (4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety-six inches above the ground;

    (5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.

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    I went to this theatre last night and was pleasantly surprised that there were no signes. I looked long and hard over the doors to make sure too. I am shocked at the placement of these signs. They should be on the DOORS not the side window to the ticket booth. I assume there are no signs for the further out entrances. I'm not sure if they are invalid or not, but they are not valid in my book. I would say not ALL entrances are covered. Not too sure about the distance from the signs to the doors. Looks close enough by law.
    Last edited by grantlank; 10-28-2010 at 03:00 PM.

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    Just out of curiosity, are the outer doors used as exit doors only ? It wouldn't be uncommon. People exit faster then entering at places like movie theatres.

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    To those of you with NC and SC experience, the CC differences are that in SC:

    No carry in churches without express permission.
    No carry in publicly owned buildings.
    No carry in any medical facility without express permission.
    Must have express permission to carry into any private residence.
    As I read it, same law on restaurants that serve alcohol. It doesn't apply to majority sales only, right?

    I also saw this on a website, but have been unable to verify it:

    A person who lawfully uses deadly force is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action, unless the person against whom deadly force was used is a law enforcement officer acting in the performance of his official duties and he identifies himself in accordance with applicable law or the person using deadly force knows or reasonably should have known the person is a law enforcement officer.
    Am I missing anything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    To those of you with NC and SC experience, the CC differences are that in SC:

    No carry in churches without express permission.
    No carry in publicly owned buildings.
    No carry in any medical facility without express permission.
    Must have express permission to carry into any private residence.
    As I read it, same law on restaurants that serve alcohol. It doesn't apply to majority sales only, right?

    I also saw this on a website, but have been unable to verify it: Am I missing anything?
    Yup. OCDO Rule (5)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Yup. OCDO Rule (5)
    I'm sorry, let me be more specific. Specificity in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    To those of you with NC and SC experience, the CC differences are that in SC:

    No carry in churches without express permission.
    No carry in publicly owned buildings.
    No carry in any medical facility without express permission.
    Must have express permission to carry into any private residence.
    As I read it, same law on restaurants that serve alcohol. It doesn't apply to majority sales only, right?

    I also saw this on a website, but have been unable to verify it:



    Am I missing anything? Please don't give a smartass, useless answer.
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    It ain't what they call rock and roll
    And the Sultans...
    Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"

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