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Thread: Who needs a gun in a bar?

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420a...hreatened.html


    Jury clears Longview man who pulled gun at bar
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    LONGVIEW, Wash. -- A Longview man who pulled a gun on bouncers at a local bar has been found not guilty of second-degree assault.

    A jury determined that 29-year-old Brian Adam Barnd-Spjut acted in self-defense on the night of March 28.

    A security video showed bouncers from Kesler's Bar and Grill hauling the man down the bar's hallway toward a back alley. When thrust into an alley, he spun around and pointed the gun at three bouncers and the bar manager.

    Barnd-Spjut, who has a concealed weapons permit, says he displayed the gun because he feared the bouncers would beat him up.


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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    http://www.tdn.com/news/local/crime-...cc4c03286.html

    Man accused of pulling gun on bar bouncers goes to trial
    By Tony Lystra / The Daily News


    The son of a retired Longview police captain went on trial Wednesday for allegedly pulling a gun on three bouncers in the alley behind Kesler's Bar and Grill in downtown Longview.

    Brian Adam Barnd-Spjut, 29, of Longview, faces four counts of second-degree assault with a firearm.

    Deputy prosecutor Amie Hunt said Wednesday that on the night of March 28 Barnd-Spjut refused to pay the bar's $5 cover charge and refused to leave. She said he brandished an semi-automatic handgun at three bouncers and a manager after they forced him down a hallway and pushed him into the bar's back alley.

    Hunt said Barnd-Spjut pulled the trigger repeatedly, but the gun wasn't loaded.

    Longview defense attorney Duane Crandall, who has a reputation for representing clients in self-defense cases, claims his client knew Kesler's was a dangerous place where bouncers have been known to behave like thugs. Crandall said Barnd-Spjut reluctantly stopped by to visit with manager Brandon Kesler, whose father Leo Kesler Jr., owns the bar. Barnd-Spjut, who has a concealed weapons permit, pulled the gun in self defense, only after he was set upon by the security staff, Crandall said.

    In 2006, the Longview Police Department singled out Kesler's, saying officers were repeatedly called there following outbreaks of violence. Crandall said Barnd-Spjut had spoken with his father, retired Longview police Capt. Don Barnd, about how "dangerous" Kesler's was becoming, and the elder Barnd encouraged his son to stay away from the bar.

    Barnd-Spjut had heard stories about the bar's bouncers, some of whom weren't officially on the payroll, Crandall said. "Not just the clientele, but the bouncers liked to fight," he told the jury. "The bouncers liked to beat people up."

    A series of grainy security videos played in court Wednesday purportedly show Barnd-Spjut talking with bouncers in the nightclub. Barnd-Spjut and two bouncers are walking toward a hallway leading to the back of the club when a scuffle breaks out. Barnd-Spjut appears to stiffen, then bouncers seize him and force him down the hallway. A doorman joins the fray, and a figure identified by prosecutors as Brandon Kesler rushes from the kitchen.

    In the alley, Barnd-Spjut appears to whip a handgun from his waistband and brandish it for about three seconds before tucking it away again. The man thought to be Kesler is seen waving him off.

    Bouncer Phillip Church testified that Barnd-Spjut aimed the gun at his stomach. Another bouncer, Dominador Pomaikai Daniel, who is 6-foot-five and 340 pounds, said he took cover just inside the club's door. Daniel, who is of Pacific Island descent, said Barnd-Spjut shouted a racial slur as he waved the gun and appeared to be calling for him to come back into the alley.

    Barnd-Spjut got back into his truck and rode with his friends and girlfriend over to the Silver Star, another downtown Longview bar. He was arrested at gunpoint in the bar's parking lot a short time later by roughly a dozen police officers from throughout the county who flooded to the scene.

    The defense has not disputed that the man brandishing the gun in the video is Barnd-Spjut.

    Brandon Kesler was brought to court Wednesday after being arrested Tuesday evening on a material witness warrant. Kesler, who was accompanied by a corrections officer, was shown the security video of the incident, but said he could not verify that he was one of the men in the video.

    He also said he can't recall exactly what transpired the night of the incident. Kesler, who said he was testifying against his will, also declined to identify Barnd-Spjut as the man who pointed the gun at him.

    "You don't remember a single thing of having a gun pointed at you?" asked Hunt, the deputy prosecutor.

    "It was a long time ago," Kesler said, adding that he'd been taking pain killers last March following a car wreck.

    A police report said Kesler considered Barnd-Spjut a friend, and Longview police officer Ken Hardy testified Wednesday that the pair spoke on the phone shortly after police arrived at Kesler's.

    Hardy said he heard Kesler tell Barnd-Spjut: "You just pulled a gun on me. I almost crapped my pants. I thought I was going to get shot."

    Editor's note (Jan. 14): A previous version of this article incorrectly stated that the defendant, Brian Adam Barnd-Spjut, is accused of brandishing an automatic handgun at Kesler's. The weapon in question was a semi-automatic handgun.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    http://www.tdn.com/news/local/article_3207bc76-0233-11df-b3aa-001cc4c03286.html

    Jury returns not guilty verdict in Kesler's gun trial

    By Tony Lystra / The Daily News

    A jury found a Longview man not guilty of four counts of second-degree assault with a firearm Friday, nearly a year after he brandished a gun at four Kesler's Bar and Grill employees.

    After deliberating for about an hour, the jury found Brian Adam Barnd-Spjut, 29, acted in self defense, which means the state must pay his attorney's fees and any wages he lost because of court appearances. Defense attorney Duane Crandall said his client had faced up to 14 years in prison.

    Following the verdict, Barnd-Spjut hugged his fiance and other family members.

    "I feel better," he said.

    During closing arguments Friday, Crandall said the prosecutor's office wanted to "send this guy off (to prison) even when the facts don't call for it."

    "A poor man with a gun is equal to a rich man with thugs," Crandall told the jury. "They don't like that. They don't like that. They don't like little people being able to protect themselves."

    A security video from the night of March 28 shows Kesler's bouncers hauling Barnd-Spjut down the bar's hallway toward a back alley. When they thrust Barnd-Spjut into the alley, he spun around and pointed the gun at Dominador Daniel, Phillip Church and Kirk Turya, all security staff at the bar, and Brandon Kesler, the bar's manager.

    Barnd-Spjut testified Thursday that Brandon Kesler, whom he's known since childhood, had invited him to the Commerce Avenue bar. When he and his fiance stopped by around 9 p.m., Kesler's security staff asked them to pay a $5 cover charge.

    A scuffle ensued and two bouncers hauled him out. Kesler rushed from the kitchen and, accompanied by a third bouncer, followed the fracas down the hallway. Barnd-Spjut, who has a concealed weapons permit, said he pulled the gun because he'd heard stories of the bar's bouncers previously attacking other patrons and feared they would beat him up when they reached the alley.

    Throughout the trial, Crandall sought to portray the bar as a "dangerous" place that employs overly aggressive bouncers.

    Barnd-Spjut's father, retired Longview police Captain Don Barnd, testified Thursday he had warned his son to stay away from the bar because police often were called there. A Longview man, a friend of Barnd-Spjut, testified that Kesler's bouncers attacked him and knocked him unconscious in the alley.

    And Brandon Kesler, who took the stand for the defense, said he had previously discussed the problems with Barnd-Spjut and reprimanded some of his bouncers for being too aggressive.

    The bar's owner, Leo Kesler Jr., who is Brandon Kesler's father, has said he stands by his security staff. After learning of the verdict Friday, Leo Kesler said, "I at this point don't feel that justice was served. I'm basically speechless. ... I didn't think it was going to turn out this way."

    "It's all on tape," he said of the incident. "It's cut and dry. How he could get out of that is beyond me."

    Deputy Prosecutor Amie Hunt had said during her opening remarks on Tuesday that Barnd-Spjut had pulled the trigger of the unloaded semi-automatic pistol as he waved it in the alley. However, she didn't mention that accusation during closing remarks Friday, and no evidence definitively supporting the accusation arose in court during the three-day trial.

    Barnd-Spjut, Hunt said Friday, had "acted rash."

    "He had been drinking. He was heedless and he was headstrong," Hunt said. "He's angry. He's not hurt. He's not injured."

    But Crandall asked the jury, "Where does the prosecutor get off saying that my guy had to wait to get hurt before he could lawfully draw a gun?"

    He pointed out that it took police about 10 minutes to respond to Kesler's after the incident. "Does anyone believe my guy would be in good shape after they attacked him for 10 minutes?" Crandall asked.

    Crandall also pointed out that Barnd-Spjut was arrested a short time after the incident by roughly a dozen police officers, many of whom had drawn their guns. If police can justifiably draw their weapons to protect themselves, Crandall asked, why is his client on trial for doing the same?

    "Let's try to be real careful, OK?" Crandall told the jury. "Because this case is going to affect our community. You have a right to protect yourselves."

    Superior Court Judge Jim Warme granted Crandall's motion to return Barnd-Spjut's gun and ammunition, which were seized by police. Barnd-Spjut said in an interview that he plans to continue carrying the weapon.

    Crandall did not know how much the state will have to pay Barnd-Spjut in attorney fees and lost work


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    Regular Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I'm getting this right, but if I am, it seems this guy was pretty reckless.



    After refusing to pay a cover charge, and refusing to physically leave, the only thing left to do is use force to kick him out.



    Then he spins on three guys and pulls the trigger multiple times!



    From the bouncers point of view, they were doing their job and 100% in the right, and all of a sudden a guy trys to kill you? Thank god the nit-wit hadn't loaded the gun.



    @#$% that.

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    SsevenN wrote:
    I'm not sure I'm getting this right, but if I am, it seems this guy was pretty reckless.



    After refusing to pay a cover charge, and refusing to physically leave, the only thing left to do is use force to kick him out.



    Then he spins on three guys and pulls the trigger multiple times!



    From the bouncers point of view, they were doing their job and 100% in the right, and all of a sudden a guy trys to kill you? Thank god the nit-wit hadn't loaded the gun.



    @#$% that.
    THIS. I still say firearms have no plasce in a bar period. A restaurant is one thing a bar is a hole other mess.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    zack991 wrote:
    SsevenN wrote:
    I'm not sure I'm getting this right, but if I am, it seems this guy was pretty reckless.



    After refusing to pay a cover charge, and refusing to physically leave, the only thing left to do is use force to kick him out.



    Then he spins on three guys and pulls the trigger multiple times!



    From the bouncers point of view, they were doing their job and 100% in the right, and all of a sudden a guy trys to kill you? Thank god the nit-wit hadn't loaded the gun.



    @#$% that.
    THIS. I still say firearms have no plasce in a bar period. A restaurant is one thing a bar is a hole other mess.
    then it would be a GFBZ....( gun free bar zone ) what if someone opens fire in the bar....I can't defend myself ?? I don't drink, but I do like going out to the bars once in a while. No one who is DRINKing ALCOHOL needs to be armed, i DO AGREE with that. But if you don't consume alcohol, you should be able to carry. unless the owner of the bar, posts a no guns allowed sign.
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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Glock34 wrote:
    zack991 wrote:
    SsevenN wrote:
    I'm not sure I'm getting this right, but if I am, it seems this guy was pretty reckless.



    After refusing to pay a cover charge, and refusing to physically leave, the only thing left to do is use force to kick him out.



    Then he spins on three guys and pulls the trigger multiple times!



    From the bouncers point of view, they were doing their job and 100% in the right, and all of a sudden a guy trys to kill you? Thank god the nit-wit hadn't loaded the gun.



    @#$% that.
    THIS. I still say firearms have no plasce in a bar period. A restaurant is one thing a bar is a hole other mess.
    then it would be a GFBZ....( gun free bar zone ) what if someone opens fire in the bar....I can't defend myself ?? I don't drink, but I do like going out to the bars once in a while. No one who is DRINKing ALCOHOL needs to be armed, i DO AGREE with that. But if you don't consume alcohol, you should be able to carry. unless the owner of the bar, posts a no guns allowed sign.
    in michigan,and im sure other states,you can open carry ONLYin bars(places like applebees and olive garden,resturaunts with alcoholwhere the alcohol is less than 50% revenueare good for CC however),however you must have a ccw/cpl or whatever your respective state calls it.

    also applies to most PFZ's.

    only places we cant carry openly with a concealed permit is courthouses,federal buildings and sterile areas of airports(after the security screening places)

    we also have complete state preemption concerning firearm laws.

    something people should check into for they're own state...
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    washington has preemption too! but we cant carry at all in a bar or tavern

    we can carry and drink, OC or CC with a CPL in restaurants that serve alcohol, but not in the bar area. :celebrate
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    Glock34 wrote:
    zack991 wrote:
    SsevenN wrote:
    I'm not sure I'm getting this right, but if I am, it seems this guy was pretty reckless.



    After refusing to pay a cover charge, and refusing to physically leave, the only thing left to do is use force to kick him out.



    Then he spins on three guys and pulls the trigger multiple times!



    From the bouncers point of view, they were doing their job and 100% in the right, and all of a sudden a guy trys to kill you? Thank god the nit-wit hadn't loaded the gun.



    @#$% that.
    THIS. I still say firearms have no plasce in a bar period. A restaurant is one thing a bar is a hole other mess.
    then it would be a GFBZ....( gun free bar zone ) what if someone opens fire in the bar....I can't defend myself ?? I don't drink, but I do like going out to the bars once in a while. No one who is DRINKing ALCOHOL needs to be armed, i DO AGREE with that. But if you don't consume alcohol, you should be able to carry. unless the owner of the bar, posts a no guns allowed sign.
    in michigan,and im sure other states,you can open carry ONLYin places that serve alcohol,however you must have a ccw/cpl or whatever your respective state calls it.

    also applies to most PFZ's.

    only places we cant carry openly with a concealed permit is courthouses,federal buildings and sterile areas of airports(after the security screening places)

    we also have complete state preemption concerning firearm laws.

    something people should check into for they're own state...
    I do agree that a person NOT DRINKING should be allowed to go out and have fun. Yet no one who has been drinking anything needs to be carrying a firearm period. People do not want to see a the bigger picture that all it takes is one to many for something to happen. People do not go and drink a few beers then go to the range, so why risk losing a right for a night of drinking. What I would love to see in OH is the ability to go out and eat with my family armed as long as I do not consume any booze.
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  10. #10
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    in michigan,and im sure other states,you can open carry ONLYin places that serve alcohol,however you must have a ccw/cpl or whatever your respective state calls it.

    also applies to most PFZ's.

    only places we cant carry openly with a concealed permit is courthouses,federal buildings and sterile areas of airports(after the security screening places)

    we also have complete state preemption concerning firearm laws.

    something people should check into for they're own state...
    Lil this is not accurate.

    CPL holders can not CC in establishments where the primary source of income is from serving alcohol by the glass where it's consumed on the premises. Establishments such as "Bars" and "Taverns" in MIchigan derive most of their income from alcohol where a CPL holder would be required to OC to be within the law (750.234d & 28.425o). Establishments such as Olive Garden, Red Lobster, TGI Friday's, Etc, would not be considered a prohibited place (Gun Free Zone) for CC.

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    SsevenN wrote:
    I'm not sure I'm getting this right, but if I am, it seems this guy was pretty reckless.

    *

    After refusing to pay a cover charge, and refusing to physically leave, the only thing left to do is use force to kick him out.

    *

    Then he spins on three guys and pulls the trigger multiple times!

    *

    From the bouncers point of view, they were doing their job and 100% in the right, and all of a sudden a guy trys to kill you? Thank god the nit-wit hadn't loaded the gun.

    *

    @#$% that.
    I don't believe that physically assaulting someone because they refuse to leave a business that is open to the public is legal, though I'm sure it depends on the state.

    Deputy Prosecutor Amie Hunt had said during her opening remarks on Tuesday that Barnd-Spjut had pulled the trigger of the unloaded semi-automatic pistol as he waved it in the alley. However, she didn't mention that accusation during closing remarks Friday, and no evidence definitively supporting the accusation arose in court during the three-day trial.

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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    Glock34 wrote: in michigan,and im sure other states,you can open carry ONLYin places that serve alcohol,however you must have a ccw/cpl or whatever your respective state calls it.

    also applies to most PFZ's.

    only places we cant carry openly with a concealed permit is courthouses,federal buildings and sterile areas of airports(after the security screening places)

    we also have complete state preemption concerning firearm laws.

    something people should check into for they're own state...
    In Wyoming we can carry openlyinto places that serve alcoholWITHOUT any permit. There actually is not a single law restricting the open carry of firearms in Wyoming.
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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    in michigan,and im sure other states,you can open carry ONLYin places that serve alcohol,however you must have a ccw/cpl or whatever your respective state calls it.

    also applies to most PFZ's.

    only places we cant carry openly with a concealed permit is courthouses,federal buildings and sterile areas of airports(after the security screening places)

    we also have complete state preemption concerning firearm laws.

    something people should check into for they're own state...
    Lil this is not accurate.

    CPL holders can not CC in establishments where the primary source of income is from serving alcohol by the glass where it's consumed on the premises. Establishments such as "Bars" and "Taverns" in MIchigan derive most of their income from alcohol where a CPL holder would be required to OC to be within the law (750.234d & 28.425o). Establishments such as Olive Garden, Red Lobster, TGI Friday's, Etc, would not be considered a prohibited place (Gun Free Zone) for CC.
    i forgot that part,edited to include information regarding resturaunts.sorry
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    SsevenN wrote:
    From the bouncers point of view, they were doing their job and 100% in the right
    I MIGHT agree with you, if I thought the bouncers job was to force acustomerinto a back alley where there would be no witnesses to whatever they had planned.If they had simply taken him back out front and deposited him onto the street where others could witness what went on, I bet none of this would have happened.
    the nit-wit hadn't loaded the gun.
    Indeed. From the sounds of it, he was carrying a gun that he didn't know wasn't loaded. For this, he is a nit-wit.

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    In Arizona, you can use physical force to eject someone who is committing criminal trespass on your property. You can threaten deadly force to prevent criminal tresspass, but you cannot use it unless your life or the life of another under threat.

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    First of all it was NEVER proved he pulled the trigger, and what does his refusal to pay a cover charge have to do with his being afraid of getting beat up?

    Is it supposed to be ok to get a beating for not paying the charge

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    Well he acted like a complete child during the event and he was surprised they were going to toss him out. For those who say why the back alley? I have seen it so many times and have had to deal with retards like this guy in the past.

    People like himfight with the bouncers from the time they show to start a fight with the hopes it gets physical. So instead of tossing him out front where more people could get involved or hurt it is safer for the patrons who are there if we toss you out of the building from the back door. This F&%%ing retard was just itching to pull his gun out period.

    This moron pulls a gun on bouncers who are removing a threat to other patrons and a person who is refusing to pay. Just think if they did toss this fool out in front and pulled his gun. Thank God this idiot gun owner did not have a loaded firearm. Those who have ever worked as a bouncer or a guard know you want to remove the threat as soon as possible so it does not influence others from adding to the problem or getting hurt.

    You do not want to risk hurting the peaceful patronsbecause of a few morons who want to start a fist fight. This is what the guy wanted and everything shows him being confrontational. If the safest and quickest way to remove him is out the back door then so be it. If he was this "innocent person" then he wouldn't have being fighting with the bouncers and would have not refused to pay. PERIOD Quick making excuse for a bad gun owner.

    If he was this innocent person he would have left without making a scene, but choose to pick a fight and lost. In turn draws his gun for something HE STARTED and cry's wolf as a victim even though he was escalating the fight. Yet people asks why I think a person with a gun and consuming booze is a bad idea.
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    joev11 wrote:
    First of all it was NEVER proved he pulled the trigger, and what does his refusal to pay a cover charge have to do with his being afraid of getting beat up?

    Is it supposed to be ok to get a beating for not paying the charge
    So what happens if you go to a professionalhockey game, walk in past the ticket taker, refuse to purchase a ticket and refuse to leave. Maybe it is even a city owned arena and notprivately owned. I suspect another "Don't taze be Bro" incident is in the news. On second thought they would probably have that on "Dumb crook news".

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    I'm sure the law varies from state to state. I know in Arizona, physical force may be used to prevent criminal trespass but excessive force cannot be used. The bouncers certainly would have a right to grab the person's arm and walk them out of the bar and off the property. They don't have a right to start beating the person. An alley is not considered part of the bar property unless it is a property-owned alley which I doubt. Therefore bouncers dragging someone into an alley would be looked upon by me as being very suspicious. I have witnessed on multiple occasions myself bouncers over-stretching their authority. This often occurs because they are cheaply hired help. Bars who take the time to hire off-duty LEOs as security or uniformed guards with a security company or others who have been well trained on laws and have had official state-sponsored training and licensing rarely behave like thugs. It is often dive-type bars who hire someone right off the street who already has a criminal record perhaps or who simply looks tough. The bar often doesn't train them at all but simply wants a mean, tough looking guy to stand guard. While it is certainly cheap labor to a bar, it can result in extreme liability.

    I have witnessed on several occasions from various dive-type establishments bouncers kicking a person out only to keep hassling the person while they are already off the premises. The bouncers have no legal authority off of the property. In one case, it was someone I knew who had been tossed out and we were by the car ready to leave which was located about 100 feet off of the bar's property. The bouncer continued to get up in my friend's face and scream while moving his hands in a threatening manner. I calmly but repeatedly told him he had no authority off his property and to return to his property immediately. When he decided to keep antagonizing my friend who was clearly trying to leave, I decided to retreive a 5.5" knife from my car and holstered it on my side while also retreiving a wooden baton. I made it very clear to the bouncer that if he did not back away from me and my friend immediately that serious action would be taken while my hand was resting on the butt of the knife blade. He retreated immediately and we left. In another case elsewhere, it was me who was in a mild argument with a manager because she didn't like where I parked my car but as the car was not on the bar's propety, it was none of her business. When I yelled at her to leave me alone, one of her thug-type bouncers decided to march out and engage me and before he could even get with ten feet, I immediately ordered him to stop, told him "Don't even think about, you know well what I am capable of and exactly what I will do to you and you would be extremely foolish to try anything off of your property." When they said I had threatened them and they would call the police I told them I had a gun and to go ahead and call them. No police came anyway and even if they did whatcould they do?

    On the other hand, I understand that managing a bar with unruly customers can be a difficult job so I sympathize with bouncers who try their best to keep things under control. At the same time, I have zero tolerance for anybody trampling on my legal rights nor do I tolerate criminal conduct by the very people employed to protect the public (bouncers are supposed to keep people safe on the premises after all). In Arizona, bar managers are required to attend alcohol training including the legal aspects so if they don't hire competent bouncers or train them with the same knowledge that isn't my fault. While I am not a lawyer I am close to an expert on many laws that I have to make full use of. Sadly, some of these bouncers at these less reputable establishments are much less interested in doing their actual jobs properly but most interested in any chance they get to beat someone up. In the case of my friend in the story above it was obvious that the bouncer was trying to start a fight so he could beat my friend up. I also take illegal harrassment very seriously as well. Should a bouncer ask me or a friend to leave their establishment that is fine but they are not to follow us to the car parked far away from their property and continue to yell obscenities. I will order an individual ONE time to leave me alone. Should they continue to follow me, get in my face, etc. I consider it threatening behavior and I will start escalating the force generally beginningwith the use of pepper spray in their face which they would rightly deserve.

    Wouldn't it be nice if people could just act normal? Enough said.



  20. #20
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    zack991 wrote:
    Well he acted like a complete child during the event and he was surprised they were going to toss him out. For those who say why the back alley? I have seen it so many times and have had to deal with retards like this guy in the past.

    People like himfight with the bouncers from the time they show to start a fight with the hopes it gets physical. So instead of tossing him out front where more people could get involved or hurt it is safer for the patrons who are there if we toss you out of the building from the back door. This F&%%ing retard was just itching to pull his gun out period.

    This moron pulls a gun on bouncers who are removing a threat to other patrons and a person who is refusing to pay. Just think if they did toss this fool out in front and pulled his gun. Thank God this idiot gun owner did not have a loaded firearm. Those who have ever worked as a bouncer or a guard know you want to remove the threat as soon as possible so it does not influence others from adding to the problem or getting hurt.

    You do not want to risk hurting the peaceful patronsbecause of a few morons who want to start a fist fight. This is what the guy wanted and everything shows him being confrontational. If the safest and quickest way to remove him is out the back door then so be it. If he was this "innocent person" then he wouldn't have being fighting with the bouncers and would have not refused to pay. PERIOD Quick making excuse for a bad gun owner.

    If he was this innocent person he would have left without making a scene, but choose to pick a fight and lost. In turn draws his gun for something HE STARTED and cry's wolf as a victim even though he was escalating the fight. Yet people asks why I think a person with a gun and consuming booze is a bad idea.
    First, you might re-think the reference to "retards." I suspect otherswith disabled loved-ones would find it offensive. I know I do.

    Second, I don't know where it says he acted like that, but I did read this:

    "A Longview man, a friend of Barnd-Spjut, testified that Kesler's bouncers attacked him and knocked him unconscious in the alley.

    And Brandon Kesler, who took the stand for the defense, said he had previously discussed the problems with Barnd-Spjut and reprimanded some of his bouncers for being too aggressive."


    It sounds like at least one other person was "removed" from Kesslers into the alley. The bouncers scored a KO on that guy.You might be right though.This might have been a case where the bouncers had no intentions to put a beating on this guy. We'll never know for sure.

    If this idiot had not had a gun with him, the story could easily have been about a dummy who refused to pay a cover charge, and was taken out into the alley,beaten up and left unconscious. Nothing dangerous about that.

    Was there another article that said this guy had been drinking before this incident?I don't remember alcohol having been involved when I first read about it, but I might be missing it.

    One lessonis re-affirmed for me from this.I never go anywhere where they need bouncers.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Sounds like he stepped out to greet his girlfriend when she arrived and they wanted him to pay a cover when he tried to go back in (presumably he was there before they started charging cover).

    I'd refuse to pay, too. Which means I'd also be ejected. And I'd also take issue with being a victim of battery over it.

  22. #22
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    buster81 wrote:
    zack991 wrote:
    Well he acted like a complete child during the event and he was surprised they were going to toss him out. For those who say why the back alley? I have seen it so many times and have had to deal with retards like this guy in the past.

    People like himfight with the bouncers from the time they show to start a fight with the hopes it gets physical. So instead of tossing him out front where more people could get involved or hurt it is safer for the patrons who are there if we toss you out of the building from the back door. This F&%%ing retard was just itching to pull his gun out period.

    This moron pulls a gun on bouncers who are removing a threat to other patrons and a person who is refusing to pay. Just think if they did toss this fool out in front and pulled his gun. Thank God this idiot gun owner did not have a loaded firearm. Those who have ever worked as a bouncer or a guard know you want to remove the threat as soon as possible so it does not influence others from adding to the problem or getting hurt.

    You do not want to risk hurting the peaceful patronsbecause of a few morons who want to start a fist fight. This is what the guy wanted and everything shows him being confrontational. If the safest and quickest way to remove him is out the back door then so be it. If he was this "innocent person" then he wouldn't have being fighting with the bouncers and would have not refused to pay. PERIOD Quick making excuse for a bad gun owner.

    If he was this innocent person he would have left without making a scene, but choose to pick a fight and lost. In turn draws his gun for something HE STARTED and cry's wolf as a victim even though he was escalating the fight. Yet people asks why I think a person with a gun and consuming booze is a bad idea.
    First, you might re-think the reference to "retards." I suspect otherswith disabled loved-ones would find it offensive. I know I do.

    Second, I don't know where it says he acted like that, but I did read this:

    "A Longview man, a friend of Barnd-Spjut, testified that Kesler's bouncers attacked him and knocked him unconscious in the alley.

    And Brandon Kesler, who took the stand for the defense, said he had previously discussed the problems with Barnd-Spjut and reprimanded some of his bouncers for being too aggressive."


    It sounds like at least one other person was "removed" from Kesslers into the alley. The bouncers scored a KO on that guy.You might be right though.This might have been a case where the bouncers had no intentions to put a beating on this guy. We'll never know for sure.

    If this idiot had not had a gun with him, the story could easily have been about a dummy who refused to pay a cover charge, and was taken out into the alley,beaten up and left unconscious. Nothing dangerous about that.

    Was there another article that said this guy had been drinking before this incident?I don't remember alcohol having been involved when I first read about it, but I might be missing it.

    One lessonis re-affirmed for me from this.I never go anywhere where they need bouncers.
    Sorry I did not mean to use the word that way. I should have stuck with moron, I was just getting ticked that people are defending a man who refused to pay and refused to leave and continued to pick a fight. I have seen it so many times where people puff up their chest when a bouncer shows authority to remove them. That anyone who has gone to bars knows how easily fights do break out and the many cases where trouble makers are trying to pick a fight, then cry wolf when bouncers kick their ass up and down the bar.

    There are some people trying defend this mans stupid actions, a responsible gun owner would not have refused to pay or have refused to leave when asked. Gun owners should never want a confrontation and should do everything we can to avoid them. This idiot did everything he could do get involed in a fight and drew his gun when the bouncers used force to remove him. This IDIOT is far from a responsible gun owner and needs to have some smarts knocked back into him.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  23. #23
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    marshaul wrote:
    Sounds like he stepped out to greet his girlfriend when she arrived and they wanted him to pay a cover when he tried to go back in (presumably he was there before they started charging cover).

    I'd refuse to pay, too. Which means I'd also be ejected. And I'd also take issue with being a victim of battery over it.
    You're such a troublemaker :P. I bet you take issue with all sorts of minor things like that!

  24. #24
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    marshaul wrote:
    Sounds like he stepped out to greet his girlfriend when she arrived and they wanted him to pay a cover when he tried to go back in (presumably he was there before they started charging cover).

    I'd refuse to pay, too. Which means I'd also be ejected. And I'd also take issue with being a victim of battery over it.
    As for this policy we have in OH we can not allow people to smoke in the bar that I work at. We allow people to go out on the back patio to smoke or out the front door to smoke. Yet as soon as you walk to your car or past the yellow painted line on the parking lot you have to pay again to enter. It is posted on the outside of the building and if people have a problem with it we tell them feel free to go to another bar.

    Simply put either you can bitch and cry about it or take your money else where. The reason we enforce it so hard is that we have people who get into ******* matches and go to their cars to get weapons, so when your gone for several minuets we have to waste more time re patting you down. The people that we lose sight off that come back I say more then 50% of the time they left to go to get a weapon.We find weapons on people more then we would like. We remind everyone that if they cross the yellow mark on the ground or stay outside for more then 5 MIN they will have to pay again.

    I tell the people who want to bitch that they simply can go else where. I will promise you if you cause any problems we will rough handle you to show you and others do not push us around thinking you are going to make us bend the rules for you. I am not a very large man but others whom I work with make me look very tiny. People think they can bully their way in. Our job is to make sure people can have a great time in a safe environment and we have strict rules to make sure it stays that way. I want to make it clear to people that if you do not like it be the bigger man and walk away. Because either you can obey our requests to pay,or to leave and if you continue to start problems you are forcing us to act in protection of the other patrons.

    Instead of this man doing the best thing and walking away he decide to make a scene and was picking for a fight with bouncers and when the bouncers where kicking him out of the bar he cried wolf and pulled his gun. Any gun owner who would have gone back to bitch knowing it was going to case problems failed at being a responsible gun owner to avoid fights. You do not have to like the bars policy but you better damn respect the owners wishes.

    If I many quote Diesel-n-Lead
    [quote]If you are the type of person who would draw a weapon during an ARGUMENT then you have absolutely NO BUSINESS carrying one and chances are you are a thug and not a law-abiding gun owner. Point moot.[quote/]
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    lol your bar sucks. Remind me never to go there.

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