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Thread: Drawing in defence

  1. #1
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    Ok so about 3weeks ago a homeless person drew a knife on my self and my wife after we told them to leave or property. After seeing the knife I drew my 7in long Buck knife and told him that who and what I do for the military and that he better stand down he did. Wife called cops and they came and the guy was arrested for trespassing. So now I OC my Ruger SR9 (not loaded mag. is vis. so is the gun so I know I'm safe. The cops didn't care that I drew my knife but if I draw my gun for defence because a guy pulls a knife on me and comes at me want can happen? The same guy came back tonight and came at me but after moving my hand to the grip he stoped walked back to him bike while his friend was just watching and said he was going to report me I laughed and watched them get on to E street and go west. But what if I have a guy pull a knife on me and come at me can I draw my gun and use it as self defence. I wont shoot if drawing and loading my gun stops him but I will if he wont stop. I have a night vision camera kit coming so that I can video record along with my 2 voice recorders but I dont know. I've been stoped a few times in the last month doing open carry always pass. But if that day comes when I need to pull the trigger to save my self, wife, or some one else from death what can come of it? Do I just let the guys dig in the trash and risk having other people hurt because cops fail and take to long to repond to a non-life threatening event or do I draw if needed and shoot only if he wont stop.

  2. #2
    Regular Member OPS MARINE's Avatar
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    Kenne, if you are in fear of your life or the life of another person, and Reasonable Articulatable Suspicion (RAS) directs you to deadly force in the continuum, then you would be well within your rights.

    If the only problem you have besides this BG coming and seeing you twice is people digging in your trash, breaking leather is unnecessary and reckless IMHO.

    In the event you have to draw the weapon and charge it (to be Condition 1), and the threat stops, like the question you posed, the person can go and report you to the police. What they want is to have you charged with brandishing (CA PC 417). The elements are not there. Here is the PC:

    Code:
    CA PC 417(a) (1) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the
    presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon
    whatsoever, other than a firearm, in a rude, angry, or threatening
    manner, or who in any manner, unlawfully uses a deadly weapon other
    than a firearm in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a misdemeanor,
    punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 30
    days.
    As long as the above didn't occur, you will be fine. I suggest you educate yourself not only on the Second Amendment, but the laws surrounding weapons in general. You will find a great deal of material on the forums, and there are several here that are more than willing to assist you.
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

  3. #3
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    You need to know the self-defense laws in your state, those can usually be researched online quite easily.

    It would help alot if you were to list you city/state in your profile, maybe then some people familiar with your area may point you in the right direction.



    Most every state has laws that say you must have reasonable fear of losing your life, or suffering bodily harm before being able to draw and shoot a person to stop the threat. And some other states consider showing a firearm without shooting for defensive purposes, may consider it "brandishing" and still some other states say you must try to retreat and exhaust all other options before shooting defensively. it is a hodgepodge of different laws from state to state, and not knowing themcan get you in trouble.

    Again, it all depends on where you live.
    But I would never draw my weapon unless I planned on shooting it until the threat is neutralized.

  4. #4
    Regular Member OPS MARINE's Avatar
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    +1...that too. thanks, Nutczak.
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

  5. #5
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    Chula Vista CA.

    I didnt draw or go in to con. 1 I just reached and unsnapped and backed up another 10feet. He stoped turned around and then got on his bike and left.

    I do OC all the time down here. Hand out flyers to people that I got off Californiaopencarry.org but just wasn't sure about the use of deadly force. When I confront people Im 15feet back and like tonight I moved to 25feet and will wait for the guy to break a 10foot area befre I shoot.

    But Im just going to keep calling the cops untill my video camera get here so I'll have something on my side. But it can be used against me but ya.

    Thanks for the info.

    Kenne

  6. #6
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Kenne,

    Self-defense range is 21' ... the proverbial 'kick and a half' as this is the minimum distance required for a knife wielder to be able to attack you with no warning. See Tueller Drills.

    In the Force Continuum, you may meet a threat with a force one step above the level of threat offered to you.

    1) Officer presence (in your case, authorized presence as in you are the homeowner and it's your property), 2) Voice command, "Stop, if you come any closer you will force me to defend myself." will work, 3) Open hand ... only if no weapon is present, 4) Chemical weapon, may be deployed against empty handed attacker, 5) Electronic weapon, may be deployed against any of the lesser threats, 6) Impact weapon, knife, baton, etc. may be deployed against lesser threats, 7) Firearm, may be deployed against lesser threats.

    Your voice command puts the choice of action on the BG ... he decides whether to test your resolve, or retreat. All subsequent actions are on him, even if he is shot and killed.

    As for the 21' - that is taught in all self defense classes that you can take at any reputable self defense training facility, but here is a home movie that demonstrates the concept:

    Awesome Wifeat the end you can see she is about 7 months pregnant also :celebrate

    Funny Boyswell, two of them would have been seriously injured

    Crazy Man With Knifebe sure how fast you are
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

  7. #7
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    Like the others have said, educate yourself on the laws, what you can and can't do.

    Best thing would be to move from Kalifornia.

  8. #8
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    Im moving in 3 years after I retire from the Navy. I'll have my business started move up to Idaho where I know my gun laws and have a great time living life. I think Im going to get a thing of pepper spray as a first defence then a gun. Because if he comes at me still after the spray well ya.

    Again thank you for this info.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    You didn't use an Australian accent and say "...that's not a knife , this is a knife"

    There is a lot of common sense to self defense, you just have to be aware enough to know how far a situation is going and use the exact amount of force to repel that attack. Open carry in itself seems to deter crime.

    Ops and Nutz pretty much wrapped it up in my opinion. Glad no harm was done to you and yours.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I'd have drawn a 12" kitchen knife and said, "I'm just a Navy cook, but I'll be happy to serve your carcass at a block party...."

    No, ok, that's not the right approach...

    It's good you're carrying!

    The overarching of self defense is to first ensure deadly force is required to deal with the situation. Him brandishing a knife while on your property is a start, but you've got history with this guy. Have you obtained a restraining order based on his previous behavior? Why not? If he violates that, and your life/limb are threatened, you've got legal backing indicating he was a previous threat to your and your family on two occasions, and if he steps foot in your home, he's violated a court order designed to help protect your family. Your argument then becomes, "I took every legal measure available to prevent this from happening."

    Get a restraining order. They're easy in CA on the testimony of two witnesses.

    Second thing is lock your doors and windows. That's also a legal requirement with respect to taking reasonable precautions to bar entry.

    If he ever does break in, make sure he's well inside the premises, then make dang sure he's dead before he hits the floor. Third-party claims don't hold much merit, even in California, but first-party claims can be a nightmare.

    Note: Advice source is a former county sheriff.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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