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Private property non-cpl concealed carry

Raggs

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
ninjatoth said:
I have another question that I am stumped on, and it's even more confusing than the first one, it's about hunting seasons: Basically, Michigan says that you MUST have your firearms enclosed in a case with magazine empty at all times while transporting them through the woods with an atv, whether on public land OR private land, and I agree that with long guns that may be the case, but CPL law excludes "pistols" that are carried in accordance with a CPL. Now if CC law is nullified for the private land owner or possesser while on that land, would that also apply to them that they may also carry a concealed and loaded "pistol" while riding an atv, driving a vehicle, or walking during hunting season as long as they never stepped foot or wheel off of that private property?
Click to expand...

IMO Because the firearm is in / on a motor vehicle you would be able to carry the pistol only with a CPL.
 
N

ninjatoth

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
14
Location
Michigan
Raggs said:
IMO Because the firearm is in / on a motor vehicle you would be able to carry the pistol only with a CPL.
Click to expand...

But that makes no sense to me, in or on a motor vehicle a "pistol" is considered concealed, there is no Michigan "vehicle carry concealed" variation vs, "ordinary concealed" such as by clothing, it's just concealed, period. So whether it be by clothing or vehicle or disguise or any other means, I don't see why one would need a CPL to conceal it via vehicle on their own land, vs, concealed via clothing or ANY other means if no permit is required to simply "conceal" on ones own property, or property that they possess, so please elaborate on why you concluded your answer.
 
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22Luke36

22Luke36

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
472
Location
Above and Beyond.
ninjatoth said:
I have another question that I am stumped on, and it's even more confusing than the first one, it's about hunting seasons: Basically, Michigan says that you MUST have your firearms enclosed in a case with magazine empty at all times while transporting them through the woods with an atv, whether on public land OR private land, and I agree that with long guns that may be the case, but CPL law excludes "pistols" that are carried in accordance with a CPL. Now if CC law is nullified for the private land owner or possesser while on that land, would that also apply to them that they may also carry a concealed and loaded "pistol" while riding an atv, driving a vehicle, or walking during hunting season as long as they never stepped foot or wheel off of that private property?
Click to expand...

So, there is really no open carry without a CPL, outside during hunting season? I find that hard to believe.
 
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Raggs

Raggs

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Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
ninjatoth said:
But that makes no sense to me, in or on a motor vehicle a "pistol" is considered concealed, there is no Michigan "vehicle carry concealed" variation vs, "ordinary concealed" such as by clothing, it's just concealed, period. So whether it be by clothing or vehicle or disguise or any other means, I don't see why one would need a CPL to conceal it via vehicle on their own land, vs, concealed via clothing or ANY other means if no permit is required to simply "conceal" on ones one property, or property that they possess, so please elaborate on why you concluded your answer.
Click to expand...

The highlighted part has been argued, debated many times here. Technically a pistol is not concealed, it is being transported. there is a specific way to transport the pistol if one does not have a CPL, cased, no ammo. If you have a CPL you can transport the loaded firearm on your person, in a vehicle.
 
J

jeffrey-r

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
110
Location
Warren, MI
Raggs said:
IMO Because the firearm is in / on a motor vehicle you would be able to carry the pistol only with a CPL.
Click to expand...

I will disagree here. Ninjatooth is asking about carrying a loaded pistol in / on a vehicle while on his own property.

MCL 750.227 section (2)

"(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or
otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of
business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and
if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license."

A person all not carry a pistol:
--concealed on or about his person or
--concealed or otherwise in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person
EXCEPT
--in his dwelling house
--in his place of business [presumably an owned business, not just "place where I'm employed"]
--on other land possessed by the person.
UNLESS
--you have a license to carry a concealed pistol
AND
--you carry with that license in accordance with other laws.

So, if you are in your house, in your business, or on your land, this law does not apply. You can carry concealed on or about your person, and also concealed or otherwise in a vehicle.

Just recently I heard some kind of report (on this forum??) about a guy who was (open?) carrying, on his property, and he got into his vehicle to get (something) and for whatever reason the police were there. The discussion revolved around the fact that since he was on his own property, he was fine entering the vehicle.
 
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N

ninjatoth

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
14
Location
Michigan
22Luke36 said:
So, there is really no open carry without a CPL, outside during hunting season? I find that hard to believe.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I asked or stated.

Raggs said:
The highlighted part has been argued, debated many times here. Technically a pistol is not concealed, it is being transported. there is a specific way to transport the pistol if one does not have a CPL, cased, no ammo. If you have a CPL you can transport the loaded firearm on your person, in a vehicle.
Click to expand...



I understand that, but that is all regulated methods for public land/roadways, now if someone owns their own land, and it is perfectly legal to conceal a pistol while on it, why would a certain form of concealment be illegal such as concealment by vehicle? There are no laws of the road in any other form for vehicles on private land, I mean you could make your own racetrack and go 160 mph in you car if you wanted, why would it be illegal to conceal a pistol via vehicle while driving a trail on your own property?
 
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DrTodd

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
jeffrey-r said:
I will disagree here. Ninjatooth is asking about carrying a loaded pistol in / on a vehicle while on his own property.

MCL 750.227 section (2)

"(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or
otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of
business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and
if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license."

A person all not carry a pistol:
--concealed on or about his person or
--concealed or otherwise in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person
EXCEPT
--in his dwelling house
--in his place of business [presumably an owned business, not just "place where I'm employed"]
--on other land possessed by the person.
UNLESS
--you have a license to carry a concealed pistol
AND
--you carry with that license in accordance with other laws.

So, if you are in your house, in your business, or on your land, this law does not apply. You can carry concealed on or about your person, and also concealed or otherwise in a vehicle.

Just recently I heard some kind of report (on this forum??) about a guy who was (open?) carrying, on his property, and he got into his vehicle to get (something) and for whatever reason the police were there. The discussion revolved around the fact that since he was on his own property, he was fine entering the vehicle.
Click to expand...

That was my post. Yes, you have understood it correctly.
Whomever the officer called was in agreement that a person without a CPL can carry the loaded pistol in the passenger compartment of the car. Does every officer/department interpret the law similarly? That, I don't know.
 
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N

ninjatoth

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
14
Location
Michigan
jeffrey-r said:
I will disagree here. Ninjatooth is asking about carrying a loaded pistol in / on a vehicle while on his own property.

MCL 750.227 section (2)

"(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or
otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of
business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and
if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license."

A person all not carry a pistol:
--concealed on or about his person or
--concealed or otherwise in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person
EXCEPT
--in his dwelling house
--in his place of business [presumably an owned business, not just "place where I'm employed"]
--on other land possessed by the person.
UNLESS
--you have a license to carry a concealed pistol
AND
--you carry with that license in accordance with other laws.

So, if you are in your house, in your business, or on your land, this law does not apply. You can carry concealed on or about your person, and also concealed or otherwise in a vehicle.

Just recently I heard some kind of report (on this forum??) about a guy who was (open?) carrying, on his property, and he got into his vehicle to get (something) and for whatever reason the police were there. The discussion revolved around the fact that since he was on his own property, he was fine entering the vehicle.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification, I never read it the way you just showed it, but it is very clear to me now, my only real concern is "possession" of "other" land, like I was saying before, my kids and I live with my parents, this is my permanent address and I pay rent to be here, and have permission from them to do whatever I want on their land, I guess if that isn't possession than I don't know what is. I just wish the laws were more clear but apparently King James wrote Michigan law because it's so hard to interpret like you may shall, shalt not and you may..but unless, except by etc etc. Just tell me what I can do lol, like "you can conceal a handgun if it ain't public property yo". But my main vehicle question was because I recently bought an ATV and need to know if conceal or "open" carry on it is legal with no CPL on land I "possess"
 
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22Luke36

22Luke36

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
472
Location
Above and Beyond.
If you pay rent, you're good.

As far as King James goes, this is pretty clear...Luke 22:36

King James Version (KJV)

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
 
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