Private property non-cpl concealed carry

UCWT wrote:

TheSzerdi wrote:

To those who believe you can be granted permission to OC in a bar, but not CC on private property:

It is ILLEGAL to OC in an establishment licensed by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission unless you have a CPL.

It is ILLEGAL to CC off of your property without a CPL.

It is LEGAL to OC in an establishment licensed by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission with owner's permission without a CPL.

It is ILLEGAL to CC at a friend's house with permission without a CPL.

That is your argument. See any flaws?

Either the owner cannot grant permission to either or the owner can grant permission to  both. Which is it?

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Exactly!!

Edited for +1

Edited to add:
The law provides specific exception for specific regulation of private property in the case of OC in a bar. This goes back to my point earlier that unless specifically regulated private property rights trump all.

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We seem to be going in circles here. So are you trying to tell me that 750.227 doesnt specifically regulate what you can do just because you're on a private property? That doesnt make sense. Then with that line of logic doing a long list of illegal things could be trumped by private property rights and doing illegal acts on your property would be not put anyone in violation.. The logic to me doesnt add up. They may need a search warrant to search the house itself but if police were to enter a home an somehow saw a non-homeowner concealing they would be in violation just like any other MCL statute on the books. Same thing as if the cops were at the door of a home and the person opened with a 10 lbs of pot behind them. By plain view they are in violation regardless of their private property rights. The logic of private property rights trump breaking laws on the books to me doesnt make any sense and I can't see how it could be true.

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The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

When what is specifically regulated? 750.227 looks to me that all over the state just like pot or cocaine it is illegal to conceal a firearm without a permit with the exception only of a business you own or a property you own.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

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reply to above post.

   I see no circle,  Private property is not regulated like public property. regardless of what we were told and/or taught. I agree PP has been trampled as well as the 2nd, but There are various laws I can void, or I say they just don't apply to private, like speed limits, possession, serving alcohol, parties, helmet laws.

  lets say they got a warrant to search, how would they know if some one was CCing? the warrant has to name places, and people to be searched,  They would have to know the name of your visitor before they obtained the warrant, then when they served it they'd have to know that visitor was going to be there.

I see what your logic is, but all that is based on your impression that the law over rides the constitution. You have to think as if we are in charge, the constitution is there to control the Govt.  It just has been lost to interpretation, by lawyers, and politicians.

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conservative85 wrote:

reply to above post.

I see no circle, Private property is not regulated like public property. regardless of what we were told and/or taught. I agree PP has been trampled as well as the 2nd, but There are various laws I can void, or I say they just don't apply to private, like speed limits, possession, serving alcohol, parties, helmet laws.

lets say they got a warrant to search, how would they know if some one was CCing? the warrant has to name places, and people to be searched, They would have to know the name of your visitor before they obtained the warrant, then when they served it they'd have to know that visitor was going to be there.

I see what your logic is, but all that is based on your impression that the law over rides the constitution. You have to think as if we are in charge, the constitution is there to control the Govt. It just has been lost to interpretation, by lawyers, and politicians.

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I've seen quite a large amount of search warrants executed on cops they search every single person on the property for their safety and those who have illegal drugs or anything illegal on them are prosecuted for those things.

Also I know for a fact you can be charged with a crime if proven guilty of serving alcohol to minors on private property especially if they get drunk drive and hit or kill someone.

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TheSzerdi wrote:

The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

When what is specifically regulated? 750.227 looks to me that all over the state just like pot or cocaine it is illegal to conceal a firearm without a permit with the exception only of a business you own or a property you own.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

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Show me some sites where this comes from "It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated" Is the side of the road regulated. If a cop stopped you for j-walking and you were concealing without a CPL you would be arrested. CC'ing in a laundry mat wouldnt be regulated it's a private property of a business why wouldnt that be legal? I still don't follow and don't think it's correct. Would like to see an attorney who is aware of all privary property rights, a judge or prosecutor chime in.

PS: not long ago a guy was nude in his kitchen grabbing dinner. A lady walking on his lawn cutting across the road saw him nude called the police and he received indecent exposure violation IN HIS HOUSE! Fox News channel was where I saw the story. They interviewed the guy.

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mikestilly wrote:

TheSzerdi wrote:

The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

When what is specifically regulated? 750.227 looks to me that all over the state just like pot or cocaine it is illegal to conceal a firearm without a permit with the exception only of a business you own or a property you own.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

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Show me some sites where this comes from "It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated" Is the side of the road regulated. If a cop stopped you for j-walking and you were concealing without a CPL you would be arrested. CC'ing in a laundry mat wouldnt be regulated it's a private property of a business why wouldnt that be legal? I still don't follow and don't think it's correct. Would like to see an attorney who is aware of all privary property rights, a judge or prosecutor chime in.

PS: not long ago a guy was nude in his kitchen grabbing dinner. A lady walking on his lawn cutting across the road saw him nude called the police and he received indecent exposure violation IN HIS HOUSE! Fox News channel was where I saw the story. They interviewed the guy.

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Show me where it says it is legal to open carry!

Your examples are not pertaining to non regulated private property. Jaywalking and drugs!?!?

I agree that someone in those government positions do need to clear this up!

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



Remember there are more Amendments to the constitution than just the 2ND!

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UCWT wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

TheSzerdi wrote:

The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

When what is specifically regulated? 750.227 looks to me that all over the state just like pot or cocaine it is illegal to conceal a firearm without a permit with the exception only of a business you own or a property you own.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

Click to expand...

Show me some sites where this comes from "It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated" Is the side of the road regulated. If a cop stopped you for j-walking and you were concealing without a CPL you would be arrested. CC'ing in a laundry mat wouldnt be regulated it's a private property of a business why wouldnt that be legal? I still don't follow and don't think it's correct. Would like to see an attorney who is aware of all privary property rights, a judge or prosecutor chime in.

PS: not long ago a guy was nude in his kitchen grabbing dinner. A lady walking on his lawn cutting across the road saw him nude called the police and he received indecent exposure violation IN HIS HOUSE! Fox News channel was where I saw the story. They interviewed the guy.

Click to expand...

Show me where it says it is legal to open carry!

Your examples are not pertaining to non regulated private property. Jaywalking and drugs!?!?

I agree that someone in those government positions do need to clear this up!

Click to expand...

We're talking about concealed carry.* not OC and I can show you where it's illegal. I have above. I'd like to see someone cite where the exemption for non regulated private property is located.**

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mikestilly wrote:

UCWT wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

TheSzerdi wrote:

The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

When what is specifically regulated? 750.227 looks to me that all over the state just like pot or cocaine it is illegal to conceal a firearm without a permit with the exception only of a business you own or a property you own.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

Click to expand...

Show me some sites where this comes from "It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated" Is the side of the road regulated. If a cop stopped you for j-walking and you were concealing without a CPL you would be arrested. CC'ing in a laundry mat wouldnt be regulated it's a private property of a business why wouldnt that be legal? I still don't follow and don't think it's correct. Would like to see an attorney who is aware of all privary property rights, a judge or prosecutor chime in.

PS: not long ago a guy was nude in his kitchen grabbing dinner. A lady walking on his lawn cutting across the road saw him nude called the police and he received indecent exposure violation IN HIS HOUSE! Fox News channel was where I saw the story. They interviewed the guy.

Click to expand...

Show me where it says it is legal to open carry!

Your examples are not pertaining to non regulated private property. Jaywalking and drugs!?!?

I agree that someone in those government positions do need to clear this up!

Click to expand...

We're talking about concealed carry.* not OC and I can show you where it's illegal. I have above. I'd like to see someone cite where the exemption for non regulated private property is located.**

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*(on private property not goverened by that set of laws).
**(And I would like it to be cited where it is legal to open carry.

Not trying to see whos is bigger you seem to be wanting a cite that will not be there just like oc.

So do you agree that the serve buy glass bar/bowling ally owner was able to grant the non cpl oc'ers the right to carry open in his establishment?

He is either breaking the law or private property trumps it.

Your take on this?

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UCWT wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

UCWT wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

TheSzerdi wrote:

The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

When what is specifically regulated? 750.227 looks to me that all over the state just like pot or cocaine it is illegal to conceal a firearm without a permit with the exception only of a business you own or a property you own.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

Click to expand...

Show me some sites where this comes from "It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated" Is the side of the road regulated. If a cop stopped you for j-walking and you were concealing without a CPL you would be arrested. CC'ing in a laundry mat wouldnt be regulated it's a private property of a business why wouldnt that be legal? I still don't follow and don't think it's correct. Would like to see an attorney who is aware of all privary property rights, a judge or prosecutor chime in.

PS: not long ago a guy was nude in his kitchen grabbing dinner. A lady walking on his lawn cutting across the road saw him nude called the police and he received indecent exposure violation IN HIS HOUSE! Fox News channel was where I saw the story. They interviewed the guy.

Click to expand...

Show me where it says it is legal to open carry!

Your examples are not pertaining to non regulated private property. Jaywalking and drugs!?!?

I agree that someone in those government positions do need to clear this up!

Click to expand...

We're talking about concealed carry.* not OC and I can show you where it's illegal. I have above. I'd like to see someone cite where the exemption for non regulated private property is located.**

Click to expand...

*(on private property not goverened by that set of laws).
**(And I would like it to be cited where it is legal to open carry.

Not trying to see whos is bigger you seem to be wanting a cite that will not be there just like oc.

So do you agree that the serve buy glass bar/bowling ally owner was able to grant the non cpl oc'ers the right to carry open in his establishment?

He is either breaking the law or private property trumps it.

Your take on this?

Click to expand...

It's not about what is legal because only things that illegal are cited. I cited a law that is on the books which refers to everyone in the state of Michigan and states specifically what's illegal everywhere in Michigan just like any other law. You and a couple others are trying to say something is exempt from a law. If it's correct then show me where please.

I'm just trying to fully understand this. If 750.227 Concealed weapons is exempt on all private property but let's say serving alcohol to minors on the same property isnt then show me where 750.227 is exempt please where alcohol to minors isnt.

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The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

Click to expand...

mikestilly wrote:

UCWT wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

UCWT wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

TheSzerdi wrote:

The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

When what is specifically regulated? 750.227 looks to me that all over the state just like pot or cocaine it is illegal to conceal a firearm without a permit with the exception only of a business you own or a property you own.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

Click to expand...

Show me some sites where this comes from "It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated" Is the side of the road regulated. If a cop stopped you for j-walking and you were concealing without a CPL you would be arrested. CC'ing in a laundry mat wouldnt be regulated it's a private property of a business why wouldnt that be legal? I still don't follow and don't think it's correct. Would like to see an attorney who is aware of all privary property rights, a judge or prosecutor chime in.

PS: not long ago a guy was nude in his kitchen grabbing dinner. A lady walking on his lawn cutting across the road saw him nude called the police and he received indecent exposure violation IN HIS HOUSE! Fox News channel was where I saw the story. They interviewed the guy.

Click to expand...

Show me where it says it is legal to open carry!

Your examples are not pertaining to non regulated private property. Jaywalking and drugs!?!?

I agree that someone in those government positions do need to clear this up!

Click to expand...

We're talking about concealed carry.* not OC and I can show you where it's illegal. I have above. I'd like to see someone cite where the exemption for non regulated private property is located.**

Click to expand...

*(on private property not goverened by that set of laws).
**(And I would like it to be cited where it is legal to open carry.

Not trying to see whos is bigger you seem to be wanting a cite that will not be there just like oc.

So do you agree that the serve buy glass bar/bowling ally owner was able to grant the non cpl oc'ers the right to carry open in his establishment?

He is either breaking the law or private property trumps it.

Your take on this?

Click to expand...

It's not about what is legal because only things that illegal are cited. I cited a law that is on the books which refers to everyone in the state of Michigan and states specifically what's illegal everywhere in Michigan just like any other law. You and a couple others are trying to say something is exempt from a law. If it's correct then show me where please.

I'm just trying to fully understand this. If 750.227 Concealed weapons is exempt on all private property but let's say serving alcohol to minors on the same property isnt then show me where 750.227 is exempt please where alcohol to minors isnt.

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I also would like to get to the bottom of this. But you seem to stray into a different subject matter.

Minor child drinking on private property can not be granted to do so because they are not legal themselves. See they are not legal at home or anywhere else.

And you didn't answer my question about the by glass establishment granting non-cpl carry

"It's not about what is legal because only things that illegal are cited.". So why are you asking for a cite that tells it is legal

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TheSzerdi wrote:

The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

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+1

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Ok how about this. Name something that is legal on your property, but illegal on someone else's property even with their permission.

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conservative85 wrote:

TheSzerdi wrote:

The difference is illegal drugs are illegal no matter where they are. CC'ing is legal on private property unless specifically regulated, which in the case of a home it is not.

Edited for:
Example: It is illegal to be naked in public. It is not illegal to be naked on private property, except when you can be seen by people that are not on said property. This is a specific regulation of private property.

It is illegal to CC in public. It is not illegal to CC on private property unless that private property is specifically regulated, such as licensed to sell alcohol.

Click to expand...

+1

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+1

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