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Thread: Private sales in WA???

  1. #1
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    I want to but privately so my weapons aren't registered. I bought my first Glock thru a FFL, so it is registered.This recent bill has me worried a bit. But thats NOT what I want to discuss. Other than this forum, What are the methods you use to find/buy firearms in this state? I'm not finding much online other that dealers. Looking for web sites, newspapers etc.Or any ideas you might have.

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    seattleguns.net
    northwestfirearms.com

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    IIRC there is no registration in WA, even if you buy through a FFL. The paperwork is for their records and the background check. It is then destroyed in accordance with the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.

    Most on here use local fun shops, gun shows or order through the web and have it shipped to a FFL of their choice. There are also quite a few local sites with guns for sale.

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    Vandal wrote:
    IIRC there is no registration in WA, even if you buy through a FFL. The paperwork is for their records and the background check. It is then destroyed in accordance with the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.

    Most on here use local fun shops, gun shows or order through the web and have it shipped to a FFL of their choice. There are also quite a few local sites with guns for sale.
    I did not know this. I thought every time you buy thru an ffl they reg the ser.# off the weapon. ARE YOU SURE????

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    I will let someone from the state comment more but I am reasonably sure that there is no compulsory registration of firearms in WA. I couldn't find any evidence of registration when researching it earlier for a friend of mine. I came across some rumors about the FFL having to report it to the Chief LEO and to WSP in Olympia but never found any law, regulation or citation of any kind to back up said rumors.

    When I have discussed this with FFLs, they do keep a copy of their paperwork for 20 years and the NCIS check only informs NCIS that someone had a check run, not if they actually bought a gun. When my buddy bought his XD40sc in Spokane the paperwork he filled out was the exact same as I do in Idaho with nothing else.

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    Vandal wrote:
    I will let someone from the state comment more but I am reasonably sure that there is no compulsory registration of firearms in WA. I couldn't find any evidence of registration when researching it earlier for a friend of mine. I came across some rumors about the FFL having to report it to the Chief LEO and to WSP in Olympia but never found any law, regulation or citation of any kind to back up said rumors.

    When I have discussed this with FFLs, they do keep a copy of their paperwork for 20 years and the NCIS check only informs NCIS that someone had a check run, not if they actually bought a gun. When my buddy bought his XD40sc in Spokane the paperwork he filled out was the exact same as I do in Idaho with nothing else.
    But what about them keeping the SER. #?

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    The S/N is on the 4473 you fill out, then stored in the FFL records for 20 years. That is as far as it goes.

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    It used to be (late 90s) that handguns purchased through a dealer in WA were registered. Separate state form that went to DOL. DOL entered the info into a database. All such registrations available to law enforcement when running your name. Could also run the serial # to find owner. If you sold the gun and didn't report the sale to DOL (which is not required) the gun would still be listed under your name. L.E. always considered the database unreliable for this reason.

    For some reason DOL stopped entering guns into the database, but the form to fill out remained. I purchased a handgun 8 months ago from a dealer, and I can't remember if there was a state form or not.

    A dealer might be the best resource for this question.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    Vandal wrote:
    When I have discussed this with FFLs, they do keep a copy of their paperwork for 20 years and the NCIS check only informs NCIS that someone had a check run, not if they actually bought a gun.
    What does Navy Criminal Investigative Service have to do with it?* Is Abby keeping a database of guns? :P
    Was getting caught up on NCIS on my DVR while typing.

    To the other replies, thank you for the education. I was able to learn something new today that Google failed me on. I am still not sure on the State form, I didn't see one filled when I was gun shopping in Spokane with my buddy.

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    Here is some relevant reading:

    RCW 9.41.129
    The department of licensing may keep copies or records of applications for concealed pistol licenses provided for in RCW 9.41.070, copies or records of applications for alien firearm licenses, copies or records of applications to purchase pistols provided for in RCW 9.41.090, and copies or records of pistol transfers provided for in RCW 9.41.110. The copies and records shall not be disclosed except as provided in RCW 42.56.240(4).
    RCW 9.41.090
    (1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until:
    (5) At the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol, the purchaser shall sign in triplicate and deliver to the dealer an application containing his or her full name, residential address, date and place of birth, race, and gender; the date and hour of the application; the applicant's driver's license number or state identification card number; a description of the pistol including the make, model, caliber and manufacturer's number if available at the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol. If the manufacturer's number is not available, the application may be processed, but delivery of the pistol to the purchaser may not occur unless the manufacturer's number is recorded on the application by the dealer and transmitted to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser resides; and a statement that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040.

    The application shall contain a warning substantially as follows:


    CAUTION: Although state and local laws do not differ, federal law and state law on the possession of firearms differ. If you are prohibited by federal law from possessing a firearm, you may be prosecuted in federal court. State permission to purchase a firearm is not a defense to a federal prosecution.



    The purchaser shall be given a copy of the department of fish and wildlife pamphlet on the legal limits of the use of firearms, firearms safety, and the fact that local laws and ordinances on firearms are preempted by state law and must be consistent with state law.

    The dealer shall, by the end of the business day, sign and attach his or her address and deliver a copy of the application and such other documentation as required under subsection (1) of this section to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county of which the purchaser is a resident. The triplicate shall be retained by the dealer for six years. The dealer shall deliver the pistol to the purchaser following the period of time specified in this section unless the dealer is notified of an investigative hold under subsection (4) of this section in writing by the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county, whichever is applicable, denying the purchaser's application to purchase and the grounds thereof. The application shall not be denied unless the purchaser is not eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 or 9.41.045, or federal law.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    Vandal wrote:
    When I have discussed this with FFLs, they do keep a copy of their paperwork for 20 years and the NCIS check only informs NCIS that someone had a check run, not if they actually bought a gun.
    What does Navy Criminal Investigative Service have to do with it? Is Abby keeping a database of guns? :P
    I'd like to input into her database! Hay Oh!
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    The registration question is answered right there in 9.41.129.

    The question of the moment is, do they currently have a searchable computer database as they used to, or are all the records still only on paper?

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    Sounds like the DOL needs to be on the short list of reform via OCDO members. They seem to be running wild.

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    Bottom Line:

    1. I f I buy from a dealer the state knows it and has my Ser. #?
    2. If I buy from a private individual, No reg. is req.

    Is this right? What if the private seller requires me to fill out the transfer form. Can I refuse and can they still send it off?

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    Sounds like the DOL needs to be on the short list of reform via OCDO members. They seem to be running wild.
    Running wild? How do you figure?

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    deanf wrote:
    Sounds like the DOL needs to be on the short list of reform via OCDO members. They seem to be running wild.
    Running wild? How do you figure?
    I don't know if it's running wild, but they are taking and doing actions that are not required and shouldn't have anything to do with DOL.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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  17. #17
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    NavyLT wrote:
    Vandal wrote:
    When I have discussed this with FFLs, they do keep a copy of their paperwork for 20 years and the NCIS check only informs NCIS that someone had a check run, not if they actually bought a gun.
    What does Navy Criminal Investigative Service have to do with it? Is Abby keeping a database of guns? :P
    No John, NCIS stands for No Criminal Intelligence Seen

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    Nathan9493 wrote:
    Bottom Line:

    1. I f I buy from a dealer the state knows it and has my Ser. #?
    2. If I buy from a private individual, No reg. is req.

    Is this right? What if the private seller requires me to fill out the transfer form. Can I refuse and can they still send it off?
    Yes, 100% correct.

    If you buy a handgun from an FFL in WA, a state form *is* filled out (my multiple experiences are fresh -- within the past 2 years and as recently as a few months ago). At least at some level, the state knows you bought it. What they do with that info, I have no idea.

    A "private sale" requires no paperwork whatsoever in WA. Hand over the cash and the seller hands you a firearm. Any paperwork beyond that is up to the mutual consent of the buyer and seller. It's not really feasible to imagine that someone could fill out the state form and send it in without your cooperation (for example, it requires your signature).

    Some popular gun shows (such as the monthly WAC ones) require that all sales at the gun show be between club members, and place requirements on membership that mean that the only possible sales at the show are between people who have passed a background check. That simply means that the show's organizer is trying to appear responsible and does not imply that there's any more chance of any records being kept of sales.

    One interesting thing here is that since no paperwork is required to transfer a firearm privately, even if the state knows you bought a gun, no evidence exists when you sell it. Or looked at another way, the state knowing you bought it is almost meaningless from a legal standpoint, since you could have sold it subsequently, and no evidence of the sale is legally required.

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    Vandal wrote:
    NavyLT wrote:
    Vandal wrote:
    When I have discussed this with FFLs, they do keep a copy of their paperwork for 20 years and the NCIS check only informs NCIS that someone had a check run, not if they actually bought a gun.
    What does Navy Criminal Investigative Service have to do with it? Is Abby keeping a database of guns? :P
    Was getting caught up on NCIS on my DVR while typing.
    Thats Freaking funny right there, I dont care who ya are.

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    deanf wrote:
    It used to be (late 90s) that handguns purchased through a dealer in WA were registered. Separate state form that went to DOL. DOL entered the info into a database. All such registrations available to law enforcement when running your name. Could also run the serial # to find owner. If you sold the gun and didn't report the sale to DOL (which is not required) the gun would still be listed under your name. L.E. always considered the database unreliable for this reason.

    For some reason DOL stopped entering guns into the database, but the form to fill out remained. I purchased a handgun 8 months ago from a dealer, and I can't remember if there was a state form or not.

    A dealer might be the best resource for this question.
    Trust me when I say that they DO still have the database and it is reasonably current. There was a time when they had suspended entering the data due to budget/staffing issues, but they caught up long ago. Last time I bought a handgun it took about 3 weeks to make the list.

    Yes, dealers are still required to fill out the state form, but I have heard some dealers who do a transfer from out of state may only do the 4473. The reasoning is supposedly because they are not selling the pistol, but merely transferring it. I am no FFL or lawyer and it may just be semantics, but the state form does say application to "transfer" pistol, so it seems pretty obvious to me.

    Here is the DOL training info on becoming a firearms dealer:
    http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/fdltraining.pdf

    And here is the state form:
    http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/652001x.pdf

    And yes, the info can be obtained by Drivers license, CPL number, or handgun serial number if purchased from a dealer.

    DOL will not accept the private transfer form unless both parties information is filled out and both people sign the form.



    I don't see how long gun numbers would be coming up as there is no state form for them.



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    A copy also goes to your police chief or sheriff. Wonder what they do with it.

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    911Boss wrote:


    I don't see how long gun numbers would be coming up as there is no state form for them.

    This one is baffling me, I wonder if Bill Elfo will let me in on this. Or if mine was in there for some other reason.

    Maybe Fed's are freely sharing the paperwork you fill out at the time of purchase.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
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    I wonder if this is a local edict from the Sheriff and/or police chief that long gun sales be forwarded to them also?

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    I wonder if I fill out an incomplete 'transfer form' and label the purchaser 'John Doe' if they'll be dumb enough to enter it..



    They can put out 'John Doe' warrants, why not 'John Doe' transfers?

    It'd get it out of my name, hehe...



    Further, the only thing I do when I buy FTF is run the serial to make sure it's not stolen, and get a bill of sale, even if it's just a quick sentence saying I'm paying XYZ for ABC gun with serial #123 on this date.




    ETA: When i was stopped (illegally) in PCO, the pistol I had purchased hadn't been updated in DOL, still came back to the previous owner.. The officer threatened to 'keep it in protective custody' if I 'did it again' (open carrried) until he could confirm it wasn't stolen.



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    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    *

    Further, the only thing I do when I buy FTF is run the serial to make sure it's not stolen, and get a bill of sale, even if it's just a quick sentence saying I'm paying XYZ for ABC gun with serial #123 on this date.


    *

    ETA: When i was stopped (illegally) in PCO, the pistol I had purchased hadn't been updated in DOL, still came back to the previous owner.. The officer threatened to 'keep it in protective custody' if I 'did it again' (open carrried) until he could confirm it wasn't stolen.

    *

    Some people just don't get it...
    How do I check to see if its stolen or not???

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