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Right to bear arms, why?

Task Force 16

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Britstudent wrote:

The article this link is to, mentioned the Rudies Cafetera shooting in Kaleen Texas. What it didn't mention was thatthe shootermight could have been stopped before he had kiled so many. There was a young woman there, dining with her parents, that had a concealed carry permit. But due to the laws prohibiting her from carrying into the restaurant, her handgun was locked in her car outside. She lost both of her parents in that shooting.

I'll find the link to the video of her testifying at a congressional hearing, telling her story of that fatal day and advocating for restoring lost 2A rights to the people. I'll post it here when I find it.
 

since9

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Britstudent wrote:
Hi, im a college student from England, my course is American studies, and i am writing a paper on, Does Americas gun culture show it to be in a state of crisis? Im arguing that IT IS NOT in a state of crisis and that firearm ownership is something that is perfectly normal and should not be misjudged by actions of a few.
You get an A+ in my book!

Seriously - it's only a small, over-vocalized minority that make the issue out to be that it's in a state of crisis, on either side. Of course, those that do carry must raise the flag against those hoplophobes who're crying our Constitutional rights should be removed.

Sadly, this 10% against 10% clash winds up hogging 90% of the news media's bandwidth.
 

Britstudent

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to okboomer, that is only part of the paper, im yet to finish it, but will post the finished article



Task Force 16there was a quote from a member of the Texas Rifle Association who said something similar. but cheers 4 the extra info.
 

Britstudent

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This is the finished draft. Again, same idea, read, comment/criticise, what ever you want.

Discuss an example of American culture that exposes the country as being in a state of crisis

“American’s love affair with firearms has long baffled and frightened the rest of the world”[1]. This is probably a fair assessment by Gordon Robinson. This may well be true, but as the Reverend Ken Pagano of the New Bethel Church in Kentucky said on the subject of firearm possession, “I’m not doing anything illegal, unbiblical or unconstitutional but people still want me to justify it“[2]. For the rest of the world to understand this view, they must look not just at how they perceive American society today but how that society came to be. From its first settlers to the beginning of the 20[suP]th[/suP] century, the gun has been a key tool in the construction of America. As the tag for Winchester ’73 said, “the gun that won the west”. So where the rest of the world sees a crisis, many American people see firearm ownership as a continuation of tradition. “I carry because I value my life, freedom and history”[3]



The creation of modern day America and the use of firearms are symbiotically linked. “If it were not for a deep seated belief in the right to bear arms, this country would not be here today”[4]. From when the first settlers set foot on the ‘New World’ and their conflicts with the native peoples to the romanticised period of the ‘wild west’ the gun has been instrumental. It was how the colonies were able to establish and protect themselves against French aggression and how they were able to finally win independence from Great Britain. America was undoubtedly born from a gun barrel and as she continued to grow, the gun continued to play a vital role. As the frontier moved from the Appalachian Mountains, across the Plains to the Rockies, then beyond to the Pacific coast, the gun was how people survived, it provided a means for people to hunt for food. More than why or how the gun was used, the importance is on who. The men who fought at Concord and Lexington, to begin the War of Independence, were not professional soldiers, but ordinary citizens. The same applies to those that defend towns against British instigated Indian raids. These militia were an important part of early society, they were groups of men who were ready to fight should the need arise. It was the minute men of the militia along with American hero Paul Revere who spread the news of the British movement toward what would be the battle of Concord. This is where the 2[suP]nd[/suP] amendment has its origins, “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed” It’s this sense of tradition that many relate to, the idea that this was how their forefathers had freed their fledgling nation. This is why when US citizens state it’s their right to own firearms, because of the second amendment, many non-Americans view it with suspicion, they fail to realise its part of their history, lineage and part of a core belief.



A continuation of this militia mentality, can be seen in the use firearms as a form of protection, be it or self, others or property. Where many countries rely on a police force for protection, America understands that it is impossible for the government to protect every individual all the time and many see it as not only their right but their duty to be ready to defend their nation, state, fellow citizen or self from any form of attack, be it external or internal and as a result, many states allow its citizens to exercise their right to carry firearms both in public both concealed and openly. In 1991, ex-seaman George Jo Hennard crashed through a window of a dinner and then proceeded to open fire killing 23 people and injuring 20 others. A member of the Texas Rifle Association, Dr Jim Brown commented “Maybe somebody could have stopped that crazy guy in there had there been an armed citizen”. It was later revealed that there was a women with a permit to carry a concealed weapon, but had to leave it in her car due to a state law. A common American saying that “when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" This situation is a perfect example of this and of the kind of scenario that pro-gun supporters refer to when the talk of defending themselves or others. This mentality may seem strange to other countries, but many Americans see it that the people who carry out theses sort of crimes will do so regardless of gun laws, so why should law abiding people not be able to defend themselves. Two strong opinions voiced by American citizens’ sums this up,

[align=center]“Why do I carry weapons?
Thousands of Americans died in many wars so that I can enjoy the rights guaranteed by our founding fathers with the second amendment.
The police are not responsible for my safety, I am.
The police are not responsible for my family’s safety, I am.
The police are not responsible for the sanctity of my home, I am.”[5][/align]
[align=center]Many Americans subscribe to the theory that the justification of a right to carry a weapon for defence is backed by the mere existence of police forces, hostage crisis teams, SWAT type units and such, that if a life is worth the police investigating crimes and arresting criminals and having these many tools to deal with life threatening situations, then sure they are worth enough to be able to protect themselves.
“Driven by fear of Barack Obama's anti-gun past, Americans bought more guns in 2009 than in any other year on record, yet homicide and violent crime rates plummeted nationwide.
The most striking decrease took place in Washington D.C., which had the lowest number of homicides since 1964 despite the end of the city's longtime ban on private ownership of firearms. Not surprisingly, the city's administration and the anti-gun doomsayers were wrong. As any clear-thinking person knows, law-abiding residents of Washington D.C. are perfectly suited to owning guns for self-defense.
The Chicken Little predictions of mass killings and bloody scenes of gun owners running amok never materialized, and the panic about the presence of guns in people's homes was much ado about nothing.”[6][/align]
Furthermore, many Americans believe that the constitution is something which supports rather than entitles people to rights given by God. “The right to keep (to own) and to bear (to carry) weapons is a pre existing God given right, that has been supported (not given) by our foundational documents”[7], that they cannot be changed by any government, because a government is subject to its’ people, not the other way around, this is a core belief. “I go armed because I can and because it is a thumb in the eye of those that believe that men are subject to governments.”[8]



This is not to say that Americans only own weapons as a result of some sort of paranoia or just because they can. Many Americans take part in firearm related activities, such as target shooting or hunting. Hunting has been an activity carried out worldwide as a means of survival since early man, and in the early years of America this was no different, especially on the frontier and as a result, has stayed a part of the culture mainly as a recreational activity.



Critics may respond that, how can a nation that claims to have these rights and obligations then have the highest firearm related deaths, in 2001 11,127 people were killed in America, the next closest nation being Germany with a reported 391[9]. Or how in the last 10 years there have been over 30 school shootings in the US. How can a nation not be in crisis when teenagers decide to go on killing sprees in a school? An example that would tug the hearts strings of most was the shooting of 6 year old Kayla Rolland, who was killed by a class mate, when he brought in a gun he found in his Uncle’s house. Now, no doubt this mean gun laws should be re-assessed, but to be tightened or loosened? Logic may seem to say tighten the laws, but if guns were not so demonised, after all it’s only a tool, "guns don't kill people, people kill people", if weapons were to become a common tool in everyday life, and that firearm safety was just another part of growing up, like learning to tie your shoelaces or to look both ways when crossing the road, accidents like this may well be avoided. A world without guns would probably be better than one where everyone is armed. Yet if every decent American waived their right to own and carry a gun as protection, criminals would still commit crimes “Mankind has been committing crimes on each other since Cain killed Able, and all without guns . . . . . A criminal will commit a crime weather he uses a gun or not.”[10]

Though the question of is American society in crisis remains. To answer this though it is necessary to define in crisis in relation to what. An extreme example would be to say in relation to the current society in Afghanistan or Haiti then America is not in a crisis, nor by the lesser example of Mexico where soldiers are fighting against corrupt police officers. I would argue that, no, America is not a nation in crisis but just as importantly if not more so, s a nation at a cultural crossroads. America has to decide if it is to follow the way of the majority of the developed world and abandon the ideas of weapons being carried freely by its citizens or re-establish the old ways, where the sight of a gun in public was no cause for alarm, when the true spirit of mans god given rights where embodied by all.





[1] http://www.mideastanalysis.com/in-matters-of-the-gun-america-bites-the-bullet.html


[2] http://www.mideastanalysis.com/in-matters-of-the-gun-america-bites-the-bullet.html


[3] http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/36689.html


[4] http://www.mideastanalysis.com/in-matters-of-the-gun-america-bites-the-bullet.html


[5] http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/36689.html


[6] http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/36618.html


[7] http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/36689.html


[8] http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=36689&forum_id=65&jump_to=625101


[9] Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore, 2002.


[10] http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/36689-2.html
 

Superlite27

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Brit,

This is a beautifully written paper. Although it doesn't containevery reasonwe Americans carry firearms,the explanations of a few reasons are very succinct and accurate. Many writers such as myself often have an idea that they try to convey, but have difficulty wording it in a manner that is easily understood. This paper is easily understood and not only contains the "hard data", but also appeals to the emotions of a freedom loving individual.

The reason I personally carry a firearm is not because I am in, or am fearful of, a crisis. It is simply that ifI were to be assaulted, I would definately be in one without regards to any choice I have made. A firearm would bethe most effective means of extricating myself from it. Therefore, I don't carry because of crisis, but to avoid such.

I wish you well on the results of your paper. I always wonder about the reception of these type of papers. Do you think you will be graded fairly upon your technique/research/writing style, or is it possible the professor will allow his political opinions sway his impartiality? How was this paper received? Were their any interesting discussions that resulted?

Please keep us informed of the outcome. I'd be very interested in learning your final grade.
 

SouthernBoy

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Britstudent wrote:
to Master Doug Huffman

This is off topic somewhat, but if u disagree with Democracy, what are you in favour of? im not passing a judgement on your ideals, just quite interested.
Our Founders detested democracy as a form of government. It was referred to as, "the tyranny of the majority". Benjamin Franklin is credited with a wonderful, and comical, quote about this curious governmental entity;

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

We are a republic. Our Constitution makes no mention of democracy, however it does say this;

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."


As for Americans' right to keep and bear arms, as others have mentioned, our government, no government, can extend rights to the governed. What it can extend is privilege, power, and authority. The difference here in America, is that this extension of privilege, power, and authority by government first comes from us. It is we who allow government to do things in our behalf, not the other way around.
Over the past 150 years, this has managed to get polluted and twisted to the point where government has assumed the mantra of being the bestower of things, including rights in some people's minds.
What we are now seeing in this country is a ground swell of disenchantment with government, specifically in Washington. People are starting to wake up and revisit that which was once taken for granted and are beginning to demand that our government again needs to become our servant.
The American right to arms is the cornerstone of our liberty and the single most important right recognized in our Bill of Rights. It is this right that guarantees the rest of our rights and warns government that it is we who own and rule them.. not the other way around.




 

Nutczak

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Too bad I just found this thread today,

I think something that is very historicallyimportant to our protected right to keep & Bear armsis that it was also a way for the citizens to overthrow a government that may turn tyrannical.

Lets look at the UK Government and some of their recent decisions, they outlawed gun ownership, so criminals are the only people that own guns now! It gives those criminals free reign to terrorize the unarmed people that chose to obey the law.

Did the murders in the UK drop after the guns were taken away? NO! The murder rate rose. But the murderers chose knives, bats and whatever else they could get their hands on.

Oh, then we have a few news stories about fights in pubs where a pint glass was used as a weapon, what does the OK govt. do, they try to outlaw glass pints! That didn't fly too well, so now pint glass are made from treated glass that shatters into tiny bits when broken so it cannot be used as a weapon.

Self-defense in the UK?? No such thing! People have been jailed for injuring a criminal that broke into their home, the Govt. coddles the actual criminal, but punishes the person that defended themselves or their family against them.

Removing weapons from a society does not make it utopia! there will always be criminals, those criminals will always want to hurt others. Give the people the proper tools to be able to defend themselves against those that would want to cause them harm.

Was it Benjamin Franklin that once said; "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

The people of the UK gave up their liberty when their government promised them security, and nowthey have neither!
 

sudden valley gunner

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Another thing to look at isn't violence by gun, look at the ratio of violence in general compared to other countries and you find out that U.S. isn't that bad. Another thing to look at is how many largely populated cities we have. Compared to countries like Germany, England, etc.

If you were to take our most anti-gun cities out of the equation, our gun violence ratio would drop dramatically. D.C., Chicago, New York, L.A., etc. the gun restriction in these place seem to have had the opposite effect on violence and has left it's citizens defenseless.
 

virginiatuck

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because a government is subject to its’ people

"because a government is subject to its people"

There are several other grammatical errors, but I'm not going to point them all out. There are some missing prepositions, "use firearms" instead of "use of..."; missing letters, such as "or" instead of "for." I know it's a draft.

It does seem to me that you are not answering the question. Did firearms have anything to do with the question posed by the professor? Your original post said the paper was answering the question "[d]oes America's gun culture show it to be in a state of crisis?" The title of your drafts, however, is "[d]iscuss an example of American culture that exposes the country as being in a state of crisis." After all, there are other aspects of American culture that one could use to define a crisis. So if your research and the data are telling you that the presence of firearms in the United States is not a crisis, then it would behoove you to find something else in order to fulfill the homework assignment. Perhaps look into the more recent additions to our culture, rather than the tried and true aspects of our culture that are rooted in centuries old ideas. I don't see why you couldn't keep what you have, in order to rebut anyone else who may choose to argue that firearms = crisis, and to show that you first looked in the obvious direction and found nothing, so you started to dig around and found XYZ.
 

Task Force 16

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Critics may respond that, how can a nation that claims to have these rights and obligations then have the highest firearm related deaths, in 2001 11,127 people were killed in America, the next closest nation being Germany with a reported 391[9].
Quoting figures like those above are misleading in that theypaint a dismal picture of disparity between the two countries, which is intended by the source (Micheal Moore, an anti-gun proponent). What the anti-gun propagandist rely on is that the average citizen will not use logical thinking to realize that these numbers may be proportionate to the populations of the respective nations. The US pop is a great deal higher than Germany's. One has to look at the per capita numbers to get a truer picture.

BTW, it's best to use the most recent stats that you can find when attempting to analyze current issues, unless one is wanting to make comparisons to the past. You can find crime stats at this link.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#cius

You'll notice that the crime rates,nationwide, have been going down considerably while gun ownership has been on a massive increase for the past couple of years.

As for a crises in America, I don't believe we are in one.......yet. What we are facing is a possible crises if we don't start moving away from this path we're on towards a "nanny state." We have been slowly becoming a nation of irresponsible whiners, wanting government to fix all our booboos. That isn't the mentality that this nation was built on,and could very well cause the downfall of it.

My view of Democracy:
It is the rule of the majority. As long as the voting majority is the reasonablyintelligent such a society should do well. But when the ignorant of society become the voting majority, such majority will eventually be lead by unscrupuous power seekers to vote in favor of the entire societies decay, without realizing what they have done.

The election of Obama and a Democrat majority in congress is a good exampleof the danger of an ignorant voting majority.
 

architect

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Task Force 16 wrote:
Critics may respond that, how can a nation that claims to have these rights and obligations then have the highest firearm related deaths, in 2001 11,127 people were killed in America, the next closest nation being Germany with a reported 391[9].
Quoting figures like those above are misleading...
As is the salient fact that statistics are not maintained in a consistent way from county to country. For example, somewhere between half to two-thirds of homicides by firearms in the US each year are suicides. Suicides are not categorized as a criminal homicides in German statistics. Which way of counting is right or wrong is not the point, it is simply that it makes not sense to compare them.

Statistics are just a tool that can be (sometimes improperly) used for whatever purpose desired.

Finally, the statement, "how can a nation...," makes the implicit assumption that life is more valuable than anything else, honor, liberty, dignity, what have you. If the US is the last place in the world where this is not true, then I, for one, am delighted to be living here.
 

Britstudent

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A final thanks to all who responded to my post, it's been really useful, and to anyone whosopinion or advice not seen in the final paper thanks still, it will nodoubt be useful for my future work.

For anyone who is interested, i will post the full, final version along with the grade and feed back. Thanks again. Rob (Britstudent)
 

sudden valley gunner

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Task Force 16 wrote:
Here's one other tidbit of info for you. Most Americans don't know about this part of our history. It's about the last time US citizens took up armsto cast off an oppressive government - in 1946, Athens TN

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/athens.htm
Wow great story, wish Gregoire read that before she decided to unilaterally not count soldiers votes from overseas.
 

tekshogun

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Task Force 16 wrote:
Here's one other tidbit of info for you. Most Americans don't know about this part of our history. It's about the last time US citizens took up armsto cast off an oppressive government - in 1946, Athens TN

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/athens.htm

Great story indeed, one that was not a part of my schools' curriculums in History classes.



I also invoke the story of the Battle of Blair Mountain in West Virginia, an event that was part of the Mine Wars. Unfortunately, this is one where corrupt policiticians and corporations won the battle: http://www.roanoke.com/wb/80813

http://www.glendale.edu/chaparral/apr05/blair.htm
 

Packer fan

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Britstudent wrote:
A final thanks to all who responded to my post, it's been really useful, and to anyone whosopinion or advice not seen in the final paper thanks still, it will nodoubt be useful for my future work.

For anyone who is interested, i will post the full, final version along with the grade and feed back. Thanks again. Rob (Britstudent)

I am looking forword to seeing your grade.

Can I give your papre out to others?
 
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