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Thread: oc'ing in a business

  1. #1
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    OK, I am little confused and looking for the correct answer. I understand that you can carry openly in a place of business if you have permission. There is no way to get permission from a large business owner. so is there implied consent until you are told otherwise, or do I have to call every business that I go to before I go?
    Thanks for the help.

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    There is no reason to ask permission. OC is a right guaranteed by the Michigan constitution, a private property owner can deny that right just like any other but they are required to inform you as such. Do you call and ask for permission to wear a red shirt into their establishment? Or ask if you can enter since you are male, female, white, black, brown, green?

    "Its easier to ask forgiveness than permission"



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    toetag wrote:
    OK, I amÂ* little confused and looking for the correct answer. I understand that you can carry openly in a place of business if you have permission. There is no way to get permission from a large business owner. so is there implied consent until you are told otherwise, or do I have to call every business that I go to before I go?
    Thanks for the help.
    One can openly carry by default unless they've been told that they cannot OC.

    There are certain types of businesses where you'd need permission to carry. Those are listed here: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d


    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

    Sec. 234d.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

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    thanks for the help.

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    You must have permission from a church to CC there, but is this an area where implied consent can be applied, or do you have to get permission first?

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    There is no applied consent. And if it was me I'd make sure to have it in writing signed by the person. Without that it would be a good way to get F'ed if you got on the persons bad side and they wanted to screw you. If they decided to change their mind they would have to prove it with having it in writing it would give you a greater standing in court if you got in to a bad situation.

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    I would disagree with you on this one Mike. Again, by law, you may carry OPENLY at a church (or any establishment owned or operated by a church) without prior authorization. Of course if you are asked to leave you must do so immediately.

    Your statment would be correct for CC however.

    Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
    United we STAND!

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    JeffSayers wrote:
    Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
    Not true. The law specifically calls out churches/houses of worship. If they rent the local VFW for a bingo session, it doesn't become a church while they're there.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Or if they are operating in a park it does not become a CEZ.


    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    JeffSayers wrote:
    Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
    Not true. The law specifically calls out churches/houses of worship. If they rent the local VFW for a bingo session, it doesn't become a church while they're there.
    Doesn't the CC lawforbid concealed carry in any facility operated by a religious organization unless you have permission?

    Section 28.425o

    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    The OC pistol free zones specify "churches or other houses of religiousworship."

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Bronson wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    JeffSayers wrote:
    Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
    Not true. The law specifically calls out churches/houses of worship. If they rent the local VFW for a bingo session, it doesn't become a church while they're there.
    Doesn't the CC lawÂ*forbid concealed carry in any facility operated by a religious organization unless you have permission?

    Section 28.425o

    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    The OC pistol free zones specify "churches or other houses of religiousÂ*worship."

    Bronson

    Sorry, I thought we were exclusively talking about OC, but we weren't. You're right.

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    JeffSayers wrote:
    I would disagree with you on this one Mike. Again, by law, you may carry OPENLY at a church (or any establishment owned or operated by a church) without prior authorization. Of course if you are asked to leave you must do so immediately.

    Your statment would be correct for CC however.

    Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
    Jeff the question was specifically about CC'ing in a church. You're correct about OC but that wasnt the question he asked.

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    mikestilly wrote:
    JeffSayers wrote:
    I would disagree with you on this one Mike. Again, by law, you may carry OPENLY at a church (or any establishment owned or operated by a church) without prior authorization. Of course if you are asked to leave you must do so immediately.

    Your statment would be correct for CC however.

    Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
    Jeff the question was specifically about CC'ing in a church. You're correct about OC but that wasnt the question he asked.
    Please re-read the questions Mike.
    United we STAND!

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    I'm sure glad I got my "Exempt" box checked. Although I still could be asked to leave private property if found out. Later, Bob
    Life Member: NRA (Benefactor), GOA, SAF, MUCC, and Case Collectors Club
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    How do you get that? Is it just for LEOs or is there some eligibility requirements that I could look into.

  16. #16
    Regular Member bobn911's Avatar
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    sshhh, don't tell anyone. I'm a reserve cop. If you already have your CPL, it cost $10.00 for an application. Once filled out, it and maybe youwill have to go before the gun board for approval. I wish i could remember, but it seems like there are about 10 or 12 different ways to get it done. Check with your county clerk. Later, Bob
    Life Member: NRA (Benefactor), GOA, SAF, MUCC, and Case Collectors Club
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