• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

oc'ing in a business

T

toetag

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
2
Location
, ,
imported post

OK, I am little confused and looking for the correct answer. I understand that you can carry openly in a place of business if you have permission. There is no way to get permission from a large business owner. so is there implied consent until you are told otherwise, or do I have to call every business that I go to before I go?
Thanks for the help.
 
M

maahes

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
125
Location
Jackson, Michigan, USA
imported post

There is no reason to ask permission. OC is a right guaranteed by the Michigan constitution, a private property owner can deny that right just like any other but they are required to inform you as such. Do you call and ask for permission to wear a red shirt into their establishment? Or ask if you can enter since you are male, female, white, black, brown, green?

"Its easier to ask forgiveness than permission"
 
Z

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

toetag wrote:
OK, I am  little confused and looking for the correct answer. I understand that you can carry openly in a place of business if you have permission. There is no way to get permission from a large business owner. so is there implied consent until you are told otherwise, or do I have to call every business that I go to before I go?
Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

One can openly carry by default unless they've been told that they cannot OC.

There are certain types of businesses where you'd need permission to carry. Those are listed here: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-234d


750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
Click to expand...
 
M

mikestilly

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
1,869
Location
Macomb County, Michigan, USA
imported post

There is no applied consent. And if it was me I'd make sure to have it in writing signed by the person. Without that it would be a good way to get F'ed if you got on the persons bad side and they wanted to screw you. If they decided to change their mind they would have to prove it with having it in writing it would give you a greater standing in court if you got in to a bad situation.
 
JeffSayers

JeffSayers

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
629
Location
Do you really wanna go there with me?, Michigan, U
imported post

I would disagree with you on this one Mike. Again, by law, you may carry OPENLY at a church (or any establishment owned or operated by a church) without prior authorization. Of course if you are asked to leave you must do so immediately.

Your statment would be correct for CC however.

Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
 
Z

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

JeffSayers wrote:
Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
Click to expand...

Not true. The law specifically calls out churches/houses of worship. If they rent the local VFW for a bingo session, it doesn't become a church while they're there.
 
Bronson

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
JeffSayers wrote:
Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
Click to expand...

Not true. The law specifically calls out churches/houses of worship. If they rent the local VFW for a bingo session, it doesn't become a church while they're there.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the CC lawforbid concealed carry in any facility operated by a religious organization unless you have permission?

Section 28.425o

(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

The OC pistol free zones specify "churches or other houses of religiousworship."

Bronson
 
Z

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

Bronson wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
JeffSayers wrote:
Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
Click to expand...

Not true. The law specifically calls out churches/houses of worship. If they rent the local VFW for a bingo session, it doesn't become a church while they're there.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the CC law forbid concealed carry in any facility operated by a religious organization unless you have permission?

Section 28.425o

(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

The OC pistol free zones specify "churches or other houses of religious worship."

Bronson
Click to expand...


Sorry, I thought we were exclusively talking about OC, but we weren't. You're right.
 
M

mikestilly

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
1,869
Location
Macomb County, Michigan, USA
imported post

JeffSayers wrote:
I would disagree with you on this one Mike. Again, by law, you may carry OPENLY at a church (or any establishment owned or operated by a church) without prior authorization. Of course if you are asked to leave you must do so immediately.

Your statment would be correct for CC however.

Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
Click to expand...

Jeff the question was specifically about CC'ing in a church. You're correct about OC but that wasnt the question he asked.
 
JeffSayers

JeffSayers

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
629
Location
Do you really wanna go there with me?, Michigan, U
imported post

mikestilly wrote:
JeffSayers wrote:
I would disagree with you on this one Mike. Again, by law, you may carry OPENLY at a church (or any establishment owned or operated by a church) without prior authorization. Of course if you are asked to leave you must do so immediately.

Your statment would be correct for CC however.

Note to all CC'ers: Be watchful for non-church places that are operated by a religious organization. IE: A bingo session in a secular building being run by a local church. CC is off limits here.
Click to expand...

Jeff the question was specifically about CC'ing in a church. You're correct about OC but that wasnt the question he asked.
Click to expand...
Please re-read the questions Mike.
 
bobn911

bobn911

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
74
Location
Edwardsburg, Michigan, USA
imported post

sshhh, don't tell anyone. I'm a reserve cop. If you already have your CPL, it cost $10.00 for an application. Once filled out, it and maybe youwill have to go before the gun board for approval. I wish i could remember, but it seems like there are about 10 or 12 different ways to get it done. Check with your county clerk. Later, Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top