LEWIS COUNTY: Carrying of guns in parks to be discussed

Right Wing Wacko · Jan 18, 2010

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http://www.theolympian.com/112/story/1105494.html?mi_pluck_action=comment_submitted&qwxq=60514#Comments_Container

The Lewis County Commission will hold a public hearing at 10 a.m. Jan. 25 at the county courthouse to bring local law in line with state law when it comes to carrying firearms in county parks, according to The Chronicle of Centralia.

County code bans the use and display of firearms and weapons in public parks. A state law does not. Commissioners said language will be removed from the county code to bring it in line with state law, which does not explicitly bar displaying firearms.

Sheriff Steve Mansfield attended the Lewis County Commission’s weekly meeting last week and said the law would make it more difficult for deputies to approach people carrying firearms in parks.

It appears the sheriff is worried that he will no longer be able to illegally harass gun owners!

EDIT:

Apparently the exact same article is also in the TNT.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/1033145.html

jbone · Jan 18, 2010

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God I hope this doesn’t turn into a repeat of Snohomish Council.

t3rmin · Jan 18, 2010

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The article is originally from the Centralia Chronicle.

The commissioners are acting on me informing them the County code's prohibition on "display" in parks is illegal.

This has been a long time coming. After getting stalled out for a year with the Prosecutor, I finally had a sit-down with Commissioner Averill, who agreed with my points and took care of it right away. Major Kudos to him. They're even taking the extra step of repealing the unnecessary discharge in parks prohibition.

I plan to be at the second hearing to speak to some of the misconceptions from the Sheriff and media. The main one being that anything is really changing here. The State already preempted and repealed the display part, and discharge in any dangerous or aggressive way is already illegal without a specific anti-gun proviso.

They've taken some mild heat on this, which was somewhat unexpected (slow time for news I guess), but I expect them to do the right thing here.

All the same, a letter or phone call of support never hurts!

Lewis County Commissioners
351 NW North Street
Chehalis WA 98532
Phone: (360) 740-1120
Fax: (360) 740-1475

t3rmin · Feb 2, 2010

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I spoke too soon. The effort to resolve this illegal county code was tabled at the Jan 25th Commissioner's meeting, primarily due to unsubstantiated objections from the Sheriff and Prosecutor and one very misinformed State Parks worker.

See the meeting notes (toward the bottom):
http://lewiscountywa.gov/commissioners/bocc-minutes-1-25-10

I didn't even make it to that meeting, mistakenly thinking they would just do the right thing, finally.

This has gone on long enough. I started this frustrating process probably a year and a half ago. It may be time for a OCDO BBQ in a Lewis County park, with the media and these County officials invited.

What do you folks think? Lewis County (Centralia/Chehalis area) for the next OCDO event? Mind you the county code does still contain a ban on "display" of firearms and we've got an obstinate Prosecutor and Sheriff...

*EDIT* Maybe not the _next_ meetup; I see one has already been proposed. The one after next, perhaps?

BigDave · Feb 2, 2010

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t3rmin wrote:

I spoke too soon. The effort to resolve this illegal county code was tabled at the Jan 25th Commissioner's meeting, primarily due to unsubstantiated objections from the Sheriff and Prosecutor and one very misinformed State Parks worker.

See the meeting notes (toward the bottom):
http://lewiscountywa.gov/commissioners/bocc-minutes-1-25-10

I didn't even make it to that meeting, mistakenly thinking they would just do the right thing, finally.

This has gone on long enough. I started this frustrating process probably a year and a half ago. It may be time for a OCDO BBQ in a Lewis County park, with the media and these County officials invited.

What do you folks think? Lewis County (Centralia/Chehalis area) for the next OCDO event? Mind you the county code does still contain a ban on "display" of firearms and we've got an obstinate Prosecutor and Sheriff...

*EDIT* Maybe not the _next_ meetup; I see one has already been proposed. The one after next, perhaps?

I found when I worked with the City of Yakima, if I was not there, what I was working for was not represented correctly and when I ensured I was there, all issues to include Emergency Powers of the Mayor and Council to restrict firearms outside the home or business were repealed as well.

I would recommend that you attend the next meeting and see where it stands and sign up to speak as it was tabled.
Try and contact the Mayor or find a council member that will converse with you and see where things are at.

If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself

deanf · Feb 2, 2010

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I emailed the state parks lady and explained the facts to her.

Right Wing Wacko · Feb 2, 2010

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As is typical in government, the state park employee had no idea what she was talking about.

The ONLY regulation in the WAC regarding firearms in State Parks is as follows:

WAC 352-32-120 Agency filings affecting this section Firearms.

(1) No person shall discharge or propel across, in, or into any upland state park area as defined in WAC 352-32-010 a firearm, except where the commission for good cause has authorized a special recreational activity upon finding that it is not inconsistent with state park use. Any violation of this section is a gross misdemeanor.

(2) The possession, display, carrying, discharge or use of a firearm is further regulated under chapter 9.41 RCW.

The rule is poorly written, it doesn't even make sense! How does one Propel a firearm?

DaemonForce · Feb 2, 2010

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jbone wrote:

God I hope this doesn’t turn into a repeat of Snohomish Council.

Don't worry. It will. :X

t3rmin wrote:

I didn't even make it to that meeting, mistakenly thinking they would just do the right thing, finally.

Ahahahahahahaah!

t3rmin wrote:

It may be time for a OCDO BBQ in a Lewis County park

For God sakes. :banghead:

I'm split in half on this one.
Part 1

o it. Do it now!
Part 2:This needs to be put off for a very LONG time assumingyou are capable of flooding the county with avery large ratio ofOCers.My input is worthless since I've only been here for about 20+ years but from my perspective1:8might be good enough. Right now I'd say the numbers look something like 1:400. That's one OCer of every 400 people(including Law Enforcement). Fortunately I don't even meet that many people every day anymore.

Right Wing Wacko wrote:

The rule is poorly written, it doesn't even make sense! How does one Propel a firearm?

Uh live around here long enough and you'll eventually figure it out. That term firearm tends to be subjective. :uhoh:

BigDave · Feb 3, 2010

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deanf wrote:

I emailed the state parks lady and explained the facts to her.

When addressing these issues one must go to who has the powers to do something about it.

One must work with the Mayor and or City Council and others outside of that are prospective supporters or in this case as it appears non supporters.

I have found you need to setup meetings with the Mayor or Council Members, phone calls and emails a lot of the time go unanswered.

Hopefully you will find a supporter among the group and have an inside voice for the cause.

BigDave · Feb 3, 2010

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When it comes to the Sheriff, it appears he is falling down on the job as the requirement for issuing CPL.

I would be approaching the Commissioners with the information provided below and that the Sheriff is not in compliance with State as mandated in RCW 9.41.070 and RCW 9.41.290 and go from there.

When I worked on the City of Yakima's preemption issues, they had their legal staff review the laws as well, ensure you provide your information supporting rescinding the ordinances.

RCW 9.41.070 Concealed pistol license — Application — Fee — Renewal.

(4) The license application shall bear the full name, residential address, telephone number at the option of the applicant, date and place of birth, race, gender, description, a complete set of fingerprints, and signature of the licensee, and the licensee's driver's license number or state identification card number if used for identification in applying for the license. A signed application for a concealed pistol license shall constitute a waiver of confidentiality and written request that the department of social and health services, mental health institutions, and other health care facilities release information relevant to the applicant's eligibility for a concealed pistol license to an inquiring court or law enforcement agency. The application for an original license shall include two complete sets of fingerprints to be forwarded to the Washington state patrol. The license and application shall contain a warning substantially as follows:

CAUTION: Although state and local laws do not differ, federal law and state law on the possession of firearms differ. If you are prohibited by federal law from possessing a firearm, you may be prosecuted in federal court. A state license is not a defense to a federal prosecution.

The license shall contain a description of the major differences between state and federal law and an explanation of the fact that local laws and ordinances on firearms are preempted by state law and must be consistent with state law. The application shall contain questions about the applicant's eligibility under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a pistol, the applicant's place of birth, and whether the applicant is a United States citizen. The applicant shall not be required to produce a birth certificate or other evidence of citizenship. A person who is not a citizen of the United States shall, if applicable, meet the additional requirements of RCW 9.41.173 and produce proof of compliance with RCW 9.41.173 upon application. The license may be in triplicate or in a form to be prescribed by the department of licensing.

Good Luck.

amzbrady · Feb 3, 2010

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maybe you should inact a bill making it illegal to make city laws that go against state law.

bcp · Feb 3, 2010

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amzbrady wrote:

maybe you should inact a bill making it illegal to make city laws that go against state law.

RCW 9.41.810Penalty.
Any violation of any provision of this chapter, except as otherwise provided, shall be a misdemeanor and punishable accordingly.

amzbrady · Feb 3, 2010

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evidently Snohomish didnt get the bulletin.

deanf · Feb 6, 2010

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Well I was able to help in some small manner is Lewis County and State Parks.

Ms. Wilkins:

I was reviewing the minutes of your brief testimony before the Lewis County Board of Commissioners on 25 January 2010. In response to a question about open display of firearms in state parks, you apperently answered that it is not allowed.

Several years ago the Parks and Recreation Commission modified WAC 352-32-120 to bring state parks firearms rules into compliance with state law. The open carrying of firearms is not unlawful in Washington, and no WAC prohibits open carry in state parks.

I would recommend that you not take my word for it. I suggest you make and inquiry with the Parks and Recreation Commission legal counsel regarding this issue. It may interest you or the Commission's counsel to know that over the past several years police agencies large and small in Washington have issued training bulletins to their officers making it quite clear that open carry of firearms is not a crime in Washington. I can forward these training bulletins for your review if necessary.

-Dean Fuller

And her reply:

Thank you for your response. I did return back to my park area and contacted my supervisor, John Johns, as well as our Law Enforcement Chief, Robert Ingram and was given the proper language of our WAC in Washington State Parks, that yes fire arms are allowed, ( open carried) and that discharge is not. I contacted the Lewis County Sheriff's dept, and advised them of my findings. Once again, I thank you for bringing this to my attention, I also forwarded my findings and training documents that I received from our Chief to my employees so that we all understood this.

Sincerely

Pam Wilkins

BigDave · Feb 6, 2010

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Congrats deanf on your approach and accomplishment of gaining support for State Preemption.

It looks like the next meeting should be slam dunk but I urge those in that area attend as things could go awry if not represented.

LEWIS COUNTY: Carrying of guns in parks to be discussed

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