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Thread: Local news....who knew a "facsimile" law existed?

  1. #1
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    http://www.fdlreporter.com/article/2...493/-1/archive

    Granted it was a 17 year old....but a pellet gun?

    A 17-year-old boy was cited Jan. 9 for allegedly carrying a pellet gun through the streets of Fond du Lac.




    A woman called police at 11:45 p.m. after she saw a male with what appeared to be a handgun in the area of Seymour Street and Forest Avenue, according to a Fond du Lac Police Department report.
    Police interviewed the boy inside his Forest Avenue home and he admitted to carrying the pellet gun that is designed to look like a .357 revolver, according to the report.

    The officer wrote in the report that the teenager thought the situation was funny. The 17-year-old said he was shooting at a can at a friend's house before walking home, according to the report.

    He was cited for carrying/displaying a pellet/facsimile weapon.

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    Yep.

    941.2965 Restrictions on use of facsimile firearms.

    941.2965(1) (1) In this section, "facsimile firearm" means any replica, toy, starter pistol or other object that bears a reasonable resemblance to or that reasonably can be perceived to be an actual firearm. "Facsimile firearm" does not include any actual firearm.

    941.2965(2) (2) No person may carry or display a facsimile firearm in a manner that could reasonably be expected to alarm, intimidate, threaten or terrify another person. Whoever violates this section is subject to a Class C forfeiture.
    It's one of my favorites. Also makes for a great conversation when somebody asks if what you're carrying is a real gun.

    Response: "It better be! It's illegal to carry a toy gun."

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Fond du Lac's city ordinance mirrors the state statute regarding "facsimile firearms." I guess they are considering the pellet gun to be an "other object." Since the only things defined as facsimile are "any replica, toy, antique, starter pistol or
    other object which bears a reasonable resemblance to or which reasonably can be
    perceived as an actual operable firearm." Interestingly, the statute defining an "imitation" or "look-alike" firearm specifically excludes BB or pellet guns that expel a projectile by force of air.

    It's no crime to simply "carry" a facsimile firearm. It requires that one carry it in a manner that reasonably would alarm, intimidate, threaten or terrify another person.


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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Shotgun wrote:
    It's no crime to simply "carry" a facsimile firearm. It requires that one carry it in a manner that reasonably would alarm, intimidate, threaten or terrify another person.
    Was it in a holster? We would not consider walking around with a handgun in our hand while OC'ing as there would be a reasonable expectation of being cited for disorderly conduct...

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    I believethat mostmunicipalities, other than townships,have ordinances against the discharge of BB guns, pellet guns, arrows, slingshots etc. within municipal boundaries.I know minedoes.

    Another way the anti's have been able to have young peoplenot gettinginvolved with the shooting sports, resulting in their viewing the2A ashaving no place in a modern world.After all, there are police to protect them.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    this must be a new law. back in the 70's when i was a kid, you could go to shopko & buy realistic looking toy guns, cap guns, they all look identical to the real things. we all had them on our block, we all had the AR-15 looked very real when we played war in the lot behind our houses.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Glock34 wrote:
    this must be a new law. back in the 70's when i was a kid, you could go to shopko & buy realistic looking toy guns, cap guns, they all look identical to the real things. we all had them on our block, we all had the AR-15 looked very real when we played war in the lot behind out houses.
    Enacted in 1993 I think.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Glock34 wrote:
    this must be a new law. back in the 70's when i was a kid, you could go to shopko & buy realistic looking toy guns, cap guns, they all look identical to the real things. we all had them on our block, we all had the AR-15 looked very real when we played war in the lot behind our houses.
    Back in 1986 when I was a junior in high school, I had a replica oozi battery operated motorized squirt gun. The school security guard ended up taking it form me and I never got it back. It was the coolest squirt gun I have ever seen.

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    I remember when this law was being debated. It was enacted at a time when there were some robberies with handguns that looked like real firearms, for example those made by Airsoft manufacturing. The intent of the legislature was to make the use of those firearms a crime if used during a holdup or robbery (again we have thecase of the horse and camel). I put the blame for the way the law reads on the Legislative Reference Bureau. It is a group oflawyers that do the actual drafting and writing of the laws.The LRBisblatantly anti-gun. Despite the intent of the legislature the LRB can wordsmith the law to fit its own agenda, usually without contest by the legislature. The LRB lawyers are appointed and not elected so there is little we can do about it.

    I think the issue is whether or not Article I section 25 applies to BB guns, pellet guns, Bow and Arrow, crossbows,and other projectile firing and/or dangerous weapons. The amendment simply refers to "arms" it doesn't define arms as to mean only firearms. One could presume it means any weapon capable of producing bodily harm.

    The penalty for violation is taken out of the DNR play book. It is alow value forfieture (monetary fine). It is unlikely anyone will feel that the contest of the law in court is worth the financial risk. It is similar to the vehicle carry law, which is a thorn in our side, but hasn't been contested in court as constitutional infringing because it carriesa penalty of a forfieture not to exceed a hundred bucks, less than most traffic tickets.

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    I was in Criminal Law looking this stuff up when I found this out. Interesting, its legal to carry a REAL gun, but ILLEGAL to carry a FAKE one. Something I took into consideration when planning PHFH...

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    941.2965 Restrictions on use of facsimile firearms.



    (1)
    In this section, “facsimile firearm” means any replica, toy,



    starter pistol or other object that bears a reasonable resemblance



    to or that reasonably can be perceived to be an actual firearm.



    “Facsimile firearm” does not include any actual firearm.



    (2)
    No person may carry or display a facsimile firearm in a



    manner that could reasonably be expected to alarm, intimidate,



    threaten or terrify another person. Whoever violates this section



    is subject to a Class C forfeiture.



    (3)
    Subsection (2) does not apply to any of the following:



    (a) Any peace officer acting in the discharge of his or her official



    duties. Notwithstanding s. 939.22 (22), this paragraph does



    not apply to a commission warden.



    (b) Any person engaged in military activities, sponsored by the



    state or federal government, acting in the discharge of his or her



    official duties.



    (c) Any person who is on his or her own real property, in his



    or her own home or at his or her own fixed place of business.



    (d) Any person who is on real property and acting with the consent



    of the owner of that property.



    History:
    1993 a. 191; 1993 a. 491 s. 262; Stats. 1993 s. 941.2965; 2007 a. 27.



    941.297 Sale or distribution of imitation firearms.



    (1)
    In this section, “look−alike firearm” means any imitation of



    any original firearm that was manufactured, designed and produced



    after December 31, 1897, including and limited to toy guns,



    water guns, replica nonguns, and air−soft guns firing nonmetallic



    projectiles. “Look−alike firearm” does not include any imitation,



    nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior



    to 1898, or any traditional beebee, paint−ball or pellet−firing air



    gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure.



    (2)
    Beginning November 1, 1992, no person may sell or distribute



    any look−alike firearm. Whoever violates this subsection



    is subject to a Class A forfeiture.



    (3)
    This section does not apply to the sale or distribution of a



    look−alike firearm that complies with the marking or waiver



    requirements under 15 USC 5001 (b).

    emphasis = mine

    15 USC 5001 portion thereof

    CHAPTER 76 - IMITATION FIREARMS

    -MISC1-
    Sec.
    5001. Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation
    firearms.

    -End-



    -CITE-
    15 USC Sec. 5001 01/05/2009

    -EXPCITE-
    TITLE 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE
    CHAPTER 76 - IMITATION FIREARMS

    -HEAD-
    Sec. 5001. Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation
    firearms

    -STATUTE-
    (a) Acts prohibited
    It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, enter into
    commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or
    imitation firearm unless such firearm contains, or has affixed to
    it, a marking approved by the Secretary of Commerce, as provided in
    subsection (b) of this section.
    (b) Distinctive marking or device; exception; waiver; adjustments
    and changes
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) or (3), each toy, look-
    alike, or imitation firearm shall have as an integral part,
    permanently affixed, a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of
    such toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm. Such plug shall be
    recessed no more than 6 millimeters from the muzzle end of the
    barrel of such firearm.
    (2) The Secretary of Commerce may provide for an alternate
    marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm not
    capable of being marked as provided in paragraph (1) and may waive
    the requirement of any such marking or device for any toy, look-
    alike, or imitation firearm that will only be used in the
    theatrical, movie or television industry.
    (3) The Secretary is authorized to make adjustments and changes
    in the marking system provided for by this section, after
    consulting with interested persons.
    (c) "Look-alike firearm" defined
    For purposes of this section, the term "look-alike firearm" means
    any imitation of any original firearm which was manufactured,
    designed, and produced since 1898, including and limited to toy
    guns, water guns, replica nonguns, and air-soft guns firing
    nonmetallic projectiles. Such term does not include any look-alike,
    nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior
    to 1898, or traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns
    that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.
    (d) Study and report
    The Director of the Bureau of Justice Statistics is authorized
    and directed to conduct a study of the criminal misuse of toy, look-
    alike and imitation firearms, including studying police reports of
    such incidences and shall report on such incidences relative to
    marked and unmarked firearms.

    Don't get caught carrying a "squirt" gun down the streets of Wisconsin. Carry a real gun, they must not be as dangerous. (Facetious)

    The lad in this situation was railroaded by the Fond du lac police. As stated in section 941.297 (1) it appears that the intent of the legislature is to exempt BBand/or pellet guns from the definition of look-a-like (facsimile) firearm. Another case of wordsmithing by the LRB? Also another case of paying the fine instead of fighting the law?




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