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Thread: Dulles Expo Gun Show- PATRIOTS BE ON GUARD-. ATF Illegally banning private sales of firearms! ALERT!

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    The police in Austin TX, at the behest of the federal Bureau of Alcohol and Firearms, has attempted to shut down legal gun sales. The Texas Gun Shows website has the following posted: “Vendor notice – Austin show only: At the direction of the Austin Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms, ONLY LICENSED FFL DEALERS will be allowed to set up and sell firearms at the N. Austin show location.”






    The “notice” posted at Texas Gun Shows.

    FFL is short for “Federal Firearms License.” It is a federal license that enables an individual or a company to engage in a business pertaining to the manufacture of firearms and ammunition or the interstate and intrastate sale of firearms. It does not control gun sales between individuals on the local level.
    Texas residents may purchase rifles, shotguns, handguns ammunition, reloading components, or firearms accessories. No permit or registration is required under state law. It is unlawful to knowingly sell, rent, give or offer to sell, rent or give any firearm to a person under 18 years of age, without the written consent of his parent or guardian, but entirely legal for adults to sell firearms.
    The BATF and Austin cops are attempting to discourage gun sales with this color of law trick. It is not backed up by any law on the books. It is intimidation.
    In recent years the feds have attempted to portray entirely legal gunshows as a nexus for criminal activity. Gun Show Undercover, a project of the City of New York and its mayor the anti-Second Amendment extremist Michael Bloomberg, has traveled around the country and filmed what it declares to be illegal gun sales. The BATF claims that 30 percent of guns involved in federal illegal gun trafficking investigations are connected to gun shows.
    The BATF claims Mexican drug cartels exploit the so-called gun-show loophole. “Guns are purchased illegally, sold at a profit to drug dealers and used to kill innocent people and police officers, all while local law enforcement authorities lack the federal support they need to do their job,” Bloomberg wrote in April, 2009. “The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has estimated that 90 percent to 95 percent of the guns recovered at Mexican crime scenes have been purchased in the United States, because Mexico’s laws make it much more difficult for criminals to buy guns.”
    Bloomberg has pushed for closing down gun shows. “More than 350 mayors from both political parties have joined together to urge Congress to repeal these restrictions – and to close the gun-show loophole, a step both Sen. John McCain and President Obama have supported,” he wrote. In response to this propaganda, Fox News reported that 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S. Most of the illegal guns sold in Mexico originate from South Korea, China, and Russia. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.
    For now, gun sales between adults are legal in Texas. Residents of Austin should not be intimidated by this bogus color of law attempt to chill the Second Amendment.



    http://www.infowars.com/feds-cops-at...-austin-texas/




    BE ON GUARD PATRIOTS- Time to take these criminals to jail. Bring Cameras and record any Fed there. We will not stand for demands and Color of Law Tyaranny. Make them show the law. If they push this, we need to get class action suits filed immediately.


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    chrisco455 wrote:
    BE ON GUARD PATRIOTS- Time to take these criminals to jail. Bring Cameras and record any Fed there. We will not stand for demands and Color of Law Tyaranny. Make them show the law. If they push this, we need to get class action suits filed immediately.
    The Capitol Expo center doesn't allow filming on their premsis. If you suddenly whip out a video camera you will be asked to leave. If you don't leave after being asked you'll be charged with trespass.

    Secondly, The capitol expo center is a privately owned business and as such, if the owners and/or representivies ban private sales inside their buildings and on their grounds, there is little anybody can do regarding it.

    While the ATF arresting people for private sales would be unlawful (no debate there); all they need to do is to convince the owners of the event to restrict it and there would be very little recourse.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    ChinChin wrote:
    chrisco455 wrote:
    BE ON GUARD PATRIOTS- Time to take these criminals to jail. Bring Cameras and record any Fed there. We will not stand for demands and Color of Law Tyaranny. Make them show the law. If they push this, we need to get class action suits filed immediately.
    The Capitol Expo center doesn't allow filming on their premsis. If you suddenly whip out a video camera you will be asked to leave. If you don't leave after being asked you'll be charged with trespass.

    Secondly, The capitol expo center is a privately owned business and as such, if the owners and/or representivies ban private sales inside their buildings and on their grounds, there is little anybody can do regarding it.

    While the ATF arresting people for private sales would be unlawful (no debate there); all they need to do is to convince the owners of the event to restrict it and there would be very little recourse.
    But when does "persuasion" under the color of law, applied to the venue owners to impose rules that they personally have no interest in, become a denial of your right to free commerce?

    Reading some updates on the Austin situation, it appears the promoters of the show are searching for an alternate venue for future shows, presumably one whose owners will not yield to such "persuasion". So the owners of the recent venue, bowing under this "persuasion" are now going to lose money as a result of losing future rent income.

    This stinks in about a half a dozen different ways, and I believe that not only should jobs be lost, but some few folks should end up in jail for this "Godfather-like" strong-armed tactic.

    TFred


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    I highly doubt that the expo center would want to lose such a large money maker as the gun show. What would stop the Nation's Gun Show from moving to the PWC Fairgrounds (where they already have shows) for example?

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    ChinChin wrote:
    chrisco455 wrote:
    BE ON GUARD PATRIOTS- Time to take these criminals to jail. Bring Cameras and record any Fed there. We will not stand for demands and Color of Law Tyaranny. Make them show the law. If they push this, we need to get class action suits filed immediately.
    The Capitol Expo center doesn't allow filming on their premsis. If you suddenly whip out a video camera you will be asked to leave. If you don't leave after being asked you'll be charged with trespass.

    Secondly, The capitol expo center is a privately owned business and as such, if the owners and/or representivies ban private sales inside their buildings and on their grounds, there is little anybody can do regarding it.

    While the ATF arresting people for private sales would be unlawful (no debate there); all they need to do is to convince the owners of the event to restrict it and there would be very little recourse.
    But when does "persuasion" under the color of law, applied to the venue owners to impose rules that they personally have no interest in, become a denial of your right to free commerce?

    Reading some updates on the Austin situation, it appears the promoters of the show are searching for an alternate venue for future shows, presumably one whose owners will not yield to such "persuasion". So the owners of the recent venue, bowing under this "persuasion" are now going to lose money as a result of losing future rent income.

    This stinks in about a half a dozen different ways, and I believe that not only should jobs be lost, but some few folks should end up in jail for this "Godfather-like" strong-armed tactic.

    TFred
    The onus would be on the property owners or the event organizers to prove damages in a court of law and against the BATFE for any "strong-arm" tactics. If an individual were arrested falsley for a private sale then that individual would have to prove damages (which I don't beleive would be too hard to prove.)

    As a consumer who wished to file complaint against the BATFE for "loss of commerce opportunity" I'm not positive how that would work; if at all. Honestly at this point this is all conjecture based upon actions in another state. It;s all boils down to what happens at the next show.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    ChinChin wrote:
    chrisco455 wrote:
    BE ON GUARD PATRIOTS- Time to take these criminals to jail. Bring Cameras and record any Fed there. We will not stand for demands and Color of Law Tyaranny. Make them show the law. If they push this, we need to get class action suits filed immediately.
    The Capitol Expo center doesn't allow filming on their premsis. If you suddenly whip out a video camera you will be asked to leave. If you don't leave after being asked you'll be charged with trespass.

    Secondly, The capitol expo center is a privately owned business and as such, if the owners and/or representivies ban private sales inside their buildings and on their grounds, there is little anybody can do regarding it.

    While the ATF arresting people for private sales would be unlawful (no debate there); all they need to do is to convince the owners of the event to restrict it and there would be very little recourse.
    Not the show I went to this past fall. There was a two-person camera crew (rather large video camera) at several tables and wandering around. I mentioned it to someone and they passed it off.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    If the ATF is of a mind to try something like this, which is illegal in Virginia (I'm talking private sales here), then perhaps a call to the local sheriff's office might be in order. A sheriff could demand the ATF cease and desist and if they don't he could arrest them and cart them off to jail.

    Now wouldn't that be a hoot. (if any of our sheriffs have the balls that Sheriff Joe Arpaio does, that is).


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Now wouldn't that be a hoot. (if any of our sheriffs have the balls that Sheriff Joe Arpaio does, that is).
    I was thinking more along the lines of the Wyoming Sheriff's Association and the Bighorn County Sheriff's department denial of federal "authority" in their counties.

    It would be interesting to see a VA sheriff stand up to these thugs and call them out on to the mat.

    I'd stand beside a VA sheriff LONG before a federal agent. Especially after Carrico and Cole's speeches. They made it clear in no uncertain terms where Washington's despotism was leading and where Virginia stood on the matter.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    wylde007 wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Now wouldn't that be a hoot. (if any of our sheriffs have the balls that Sheriff Joe Arpaio does, that is).
    I was thinking more along the lines of the Wyoming Sheriff's Association and the Bighorn County Sheriff's department denial of federal "authority" in their counties.

    It would be interesting to see a VA sheriff stand up to these thugs and call them out on to the mat.

    I'd stand beside a VA sheriff LONG before a federal agent. Especially after Carrico and Cole's speeches. They made it clear in no uncertain terms where Washington's despotism was leading and where Virginia stood on the matter.
    Amen to that. They have their jobs because we voted for them so they are answerable to us. Federal agents soon learn to hold citizens in contempt - which is precisely how we hold them and their ilk.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    ChinChin wrote:
    chrisco455 wrote:
    BE ON GUARD PATRIOTS- Time to take these criminals to jail. Bring Cameras and record any Fed there. We will not stand for demands and Color of Law Tyaranny. Make them show the law. If they push this, we need to get class action suits filed immediately.
    The Capitol Expo center doesn't allow filming on their premsis. If you suddenly whip out a video camera you will be asked to leave. If you don't leave after being asked you'll be charged with trespass.

    Secondly, The capitol expo center is a privately owned business and as such, if the owners and/or representivies ban private sales inside their buildings and on their grounds, there is little anybody can do regarding it.

    While the ATF arresting people for private sales would be unlawful (no debate there); all they need to do is to convince the owners of the event to restrict it and there would be very little recourse.
    Not the show I went to this past fall. There was a two-person camera crew (rather large video camera) at several tables and wandering around. I mentioned it to someone and they passed it off.
    They were most likley authorized by the owners to film on the premsis as part of local area news coverage or some internal promotional purposes. You'll find there are exceptions to every rule; like how "no loaded fireams" signs at the gun show don't apply to the state police who are there shopping than for official purposes.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    Dbl tap
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    If the ATF is of a mind to try something like this, which is illegal in Virginia (I'm talking private sales here), then perhaps a call to the local sheriff's office might be in order. A sheriff could demand the ATF cease and desist and if they don't he could arrest them and cart them off to jail.

    Now wouldn't that be a hoot. (if any of our sheriffs have the balls that Sheriff Joe Arpaio does, that is).

    Not to get this thread off track, but I hope no sheriff in VA ever starts behaving like Sheriff Joe. I prefer our officers follow the law.

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    Nozoki wrote:
    Not to get this thread off track, but I hope no sheriff in VA ever starts behaving like Sheriff Joe. I prefer our officers follow the law.
    What you mean like treating criminals like criminals and prosecuting law-breakers like illegal immigrants?

    Yeah, I sure hope ours NEVER do anything like that.:?
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    Darwin Boedeker on Alex Jones Tv 1/6: Gun Show Organizer Targeted by BATF Makes His Cas

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2wvu8kvmK4



    This is the ATF using pure intimidation tactics. There is no statutory authority for them to be making these demands. Now it is breaking that Tenneseeis complying with these thugs and have followed in their footsteps. Time to take action.



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    Tennessee Follows Texas In Banning Private Gun Shows


    Paul Joseph Watson
    Prison Planet.com
    Tuesday, January 19, 2010



    Tennessee has followed Texas in demanding that dealers obtain licenses and turn over a plethora of information to authorities before being able to host a gun show in another devastating attack on the second amendment.

    The legislation, HB 2422, which has not yet passed, would make it a Class A misdemeanor for any person to organize, plan, promote, or operate a gun show without government approval.

    The bill makes it a crime for anyone who wishes to operate a gun show unless they follow the following procedures;

    (1) Notifies the TBI and the chief law enforcement officer in the county in which the gun show is to be held of the dates, times, and location of the gun show;
    (2) Verifies the identity of each gun show dealer participating in the gun show by examining a valid photo identification document of the dealer, before commencement of the gun show;
    (3) Requires each gun show dealer to sign a ledger with information identifying the dealer, including the dealer’s name and address, before commencement of the gun show; and
    (4) Maintains a copy of the records described above in (2) and (3) at the gun show promoter’s permanent place of business for one year from the date of the gun show.



    • A d v e r t i s e m e n t

    The legislation also contains a blanket ban on all unlicensed gun sales within 1,000 feet of an unapproved gun show.

    The bill would take effect on January 1, 2011 if signed into law.

    As we highlighted yesterday, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is actively issuing directions banning private sales of guns without licenses at gun shows in Texas, despite there being no law to justify such demands.

    A caller to the Alex Jones show brought attention to BATF notices handed out at the entrance of the Texas Gun And Knife Show, on North Lamar, in Austin this past weekend.

    The flyers (pictured below) state that anyone selling a firearm “will be asked to comply with” conditions including operating through a licensed FFL dealer.

    The notice also states that “Selling firearms in the parking lot will not be permitted.”

    “The lady at the front desk used her ‘mommy voice’ to get everyone’s attention.” Scott from Austin told The Alex Jones show, noting that the owners of the private building where the gun show was held were contacted by the APD and the BATF and directed to hand out the notices.

    Scott also told listeners that a petition in protest of the directions was being handed around at the show.

    http://www.infowars.com/tennessee-follows-texas-in-banning-private-gun-shows/




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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The "BS-o-meter" is about pegged out on this one...

    http://www.kvue.com/news/Gun-show-ow...-82115242.html

    Video at web site.

    Gun show owner alleges rights violation
    by NOELLE NEWTON / KVUE News

    Posted on January 19, 2010 at 5:47 PM

    Updated today at 6:14 PM
    ******

    A gun show owner says the Austin Police Department violated his constitutional rights. Police are now setting the record straight.

    The controversy centers around a yellow flyer passed out at the Texas Gun Show in North Austin last weekend. It reads:
    "Selling of Firearms"

    At the direction of the Austin Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, anyone selling a firearm at this show location will be asked to comply with the following:

    1. Any person selling a personal firearm must go through a licensed FFL dealer in the show to transfer the firearm to the new owner.

    2. Selling of firearms in the parking lot will not be permitted.

    Thank you for your cooperation!
    APD Detective T.J. Vineyard told reporters in a news conference Tuesday, the recommendations were the result of a year long police investigation of the gun shows.

    "Every time we were there we observed transactions that were either questionable or illegal so our effort was to find ways to address that,” he said.

    Vineyard said the goal of the operation was to stop illegal gun trafficking to Mexico.

    "Some people would go to vendors to purchase a firearm, and when they were asked to fill out paperwork to do a background check they would bypass that vendor and go to another vendor that wouldn't require a background check,” Vineyard said.

    HEB rents out the building where the gun shows are held. Company representatives asked for help to stop the problem. APD and members of the ATF recommended show owner Darwin Boedeker stop allowing private citizens to sell guns without the assistance of a licensed dealer. Thus, forcing every buyer to have a background check.

    "Most of the people who are trying to achieve legitimate sales of firearms want that protection, They want to know the gun their buying isn't stolen or the person they sold a gun to isn't a felon or on parole for murder,” Vineyard said.

    Boedeker says the request is a violation of our constitutional right to freely sell guns.

    "What they want to do is shut the gun shows down. This just doesn't affect me. This affects you, this affects the person down the road, every law abiding citizen,” he said.

    Boedeker went along with the recommendations for last weekend's show, but still APD made an arrest. He says HEB has since told him he can no longer hold shows here. Boedeker is convinced police wanted to HEB to make that call.

    "At least they knew where to go to arrest them. If there wasn't a gun show, they'd be down in a back alley. Felons are always going to be able to get a gun. That's why they're felons. They don't follow the law,” Boedeker said.

    "We didn't mandate anything, we didn't direct anyone to do anything. We made suggestions to them and how to handle that with their tenants or sub-leasers is a civil matter among them," Vineyard said.

    Police say during the past year they have arrested eight people on illegal weapons charges. Texas Gun Shows has been using the North Austin Event Center since November. Before that the Saxet Gun Show was there. Boedeker says he knows of only one arrest since he's used the property. He says he's trying to find a new location for his show.

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    TFred quoted the article:
    APD Detective T.J. Vineyard..."Every time we were there we observed transactions that were either questionable or illegal so our effort was to find ways to address that,” he said.
    Give me an effing break!

    "Observed" illegal transactions? Why didn't theydo theirjobs and arrest the transactors? Oh, come on. Like I'm really going to believe that LEOs observed something illegal--had probable cause handed to them--that hadto do with their pet subject--guns--and they didn't arrest anybody? Either the news report is wrong, or the cops think we're doofuses. Or, both.

    Similarfor the "questionable" transactions. If you can (honestly) call it questionable, itmust have been sufficient for RAS and a Terry Stop.So, why wasn't it checked out? Or, if it was, and the suspicions confirmed or dispelled, why were transactions inthis categorystill in the questionable column?

    Hey, everybody. The cops or the press or both think we should just put on our Bill Engvall "stupid" signs.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Well well, it sure sounds like the Austin Police Department is changing their tune a bit... wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall at some of the meetings that have been going on in their legal offices?

    http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...ns-186641.html

    Gun show owner, police at odds over recommendations
    Show owner says police advice heavy-handed.
    By Tony Plohetski

    AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

    Published: 9:26 p.m. Tuesday, Jan. 19, 2010

    An Austin police effort to curtail the illegal sales of firearms at a weekend gun show sparked an angry response from the event's organizer and raised concerns about whether the department overstepped its authority.

    Several police recommendations about the operation of the show were intended to curtail crime there and should not have been viewed as requirements, authorities said Tuesday.

    But the show organizer said he thought that law enforcement officials were instructing him to adopt rules that violated state and federal law, including a requirement that only licensed gun dealers be allowed to sell firearms. He said he begrudgingly enforced the recommendations.

    The dispute, which began late last week, has since sparked a controversy that is playing out on Web sites and radio talk shows.

    Darwin Boedeker, owner of Texas Gun Shows, said he is collecting petitions from people who support gun shows without such requirements and will present them to the Texas attorney general's office.

    "All they are doing is keeping the honest man from being able to do what is afforded to him by the Constitution," Boedeker said. "We have a right to buy and sell firearms as citizens of America, as legal, law-abiding citizens. That right is being infringed on us."

    According to state and federal law, the private sale of guns is not illegal unless the seller knows the buyer is prohibited from purchasing a weapon, which includes being a convicted felon or an undocumented immigrant.

    Gun dealers must have a license.

    Austin police said that last year, while assisting federal agents in combating the sale of guns to undocumented immigrants, they recorded a number of illegal transactions. The repeated offenses at the site — a former Sam's Club location on North Lamar Boulevard — prompted police to refer the location to the department's nuisance abatement unit, which works with owners to reduce the number of crimes on their properties.

    Police officials said they met last week with representatives from H-E-B, which handles the lease of the property, and with Boedeker, during which they outlined recommendations for reducing crime at the site.

    The suggestions included permitting only licensed gun dealers to sell firearms, providing private security to prevent parking lot gun sales and defining a process for people other than licensed dealers who want to sell a gun at the show.

    "We merely gave suggestions to reduce the amount of criminal violations that were occurring at this property," Austin police spokesman Cpl. Scott Perry said.

    Boedeker said H-E-B representatives told him to follow the recommendations during the two-day show, which featured about two dozen vendors Saturday and Sunday.

    "What they did was strong-arm H-E-B into making me do what I did," he said. "The problem is that it is unconstitutional to say I can't sell my private firearm to another individual."

    H-E-B spokeswoman Leslie Lockett said Tuesday that police told company officials Monday about a possible illegal gun sale during the weekend and have decided that gun shows should not be hosted at the site until the issue is resolved.

    Boedeker said he will look for a new venue to host shows.

    He said that in the past couple of days, he has received numerous calls from across the state and nation from people who want information about what happened.

    "There are a lot of upset people who want to know the truth," he said.

    tplohetski@statesman.com; 445-3605


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    TFred quoted the article:
    SNIP Several police recommendations about the operation of the show were intended to curtail crime there and should not have been viewed as requirements, authorities said Tuesday.
    Rubbish. This is just an example of the classic police tactic of making a demand, but fogging it up to make it plausible later that it was only a request.

    No different than the long arguments I had with a certain cop on this forum about"requesting" ID in a commandingvoicebeing a demand.

    If thecops in the article really wantedto convey the meaning that it was entirely voluntary and have no misunderstandings, the letter/memo would have had explicit language to that effect.Andall the cops would have to do is present a copy of that explicit-language letter/memo to refute the accusations coming their way, while alsodiscrediting theaccusers.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I plan on going to the next gun show. I'm looking forward to it, and bringing along my son and a number of friends. I may buy a gun, I may not. but I think if it's between me and a private seller, it is EXACTLY THAT: between ME and another individual!

    I may buy from a dealer there. I've been through the background check. no problems. I understand they need to do it. But when the cops say they seel illegal activity, and want to hold ME accountable for their failure to act, thats when my BP goes up a few notches.

    See you Valentine's Day Weekend!
    I sell ObamaBlades: Single-edged razors you can use to either remove the bumper sticker off your car, or slash your wrists..whichever works best for you.

  22. #22
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    chrisco455 wrote:

    Darwin Boedeker on Alex Jones Tv 1/6: Gun Show Organizer Targeted by BATF Makes His Cas

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2wvu8kvmK4



    This is the ATF using pure intimidation tactics. There is no statutory authority for them to be making these demands. Now it is breaking that Tenneseeis complying with these thugs and have followed in their footsteps. Time to take action.

    Watching this makes my blood boil. Wouldn't it be great if some gunowners at a show did arrest ATF agents who were breaking the law by doing this highly illegal crap?

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  23. #23
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    ChinChin wrote:
    While the ATF arresting people for private sales would be unlawful (no debate there); all they need to do is to convince the owners of the event to restrict it and there would be very little recourse.
    Well, except demanding the promoters hold next year's show somewhere else or we boycot!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    TFred quoted the article:
    SNIP Several police recommendations about the operation of the show were intended to curtail crime there and should not have been viewed as requirements, authorities said Tuesday.
    Rubbish. This is just an example of the classic police tactic of making a demand, but fogging it up to make it plausible later that it was only a request.

    No different than the long arguments I had with a certain cop on this forum about"requesting" ID in a commandingvoicebeing a demand.

    If thecops in the article really wantedto convey the meaning that it was entirely voluntary and have no misunderstandings, the letter/memo would have had explicit language to that effect.Andall the cops would have to do is present a copy of that explicit-language letter/memo to refute the accusations coming their way, while alsodiscrediting theaccusers.
    Absolutely +1! There Citizen. When someone who has the power, as differentiated from authority, to put you in jail "asks" you to do something it carries a little more force than if I were to ask you to do the same.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    chrisco455 wrote:

    Darwin Boedeker on Alex Jones Tv 1/6: Gun Show Organizer Targeted by BATF Makes His Cas

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2wvu8kvmK4



    This is the ATF using pure intimidation tactics. There is no statutory authority for them to be making these demands. Now it is breaking that Tenneseeis complying with these thugs and have followed in their footsteps. Time to take action.

    Watching this makes my blood boil. Wouldn't it be great if some gunowners at a show did arrest ATF agents who were breaking the law by doing this highly illegal crap?
    I know that it is Alex Jones, but the basic facts that were laid out are just horrible.

    Just another reason to Boot the BATFE.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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