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Thread: Question about buying a pistol?

  1. #1
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    Have a question:

    1. Can I have a Active Military, CPL Holder buy a gun for me?

    Is this legal?

    Or is this more like being 15 and asking to buy beer on the street corner?

    Anyways, thats what i'm looking for. I would like to get a military discount. I have a military ID and dd214. Problem is my ID is expired. I currently have a CPL. I currently live in puyallup.

    Anyone willing to do this for me?

    If it is illegal, then forget about it. I will just have to pay the extra 120 dollars for the pistol.

    Adding a question here:

    2. If it is illegal does anyone know the rcw for it?

  2. #2
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    Not legal. "straw purchase"

    When someone buys a gun for someone else.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase

    Why don't you update your military ID? Are you out (obviously).
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  3. #3
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    Ya my military id expired in 2004

    Thanks for the link also

    ya I dont want a felony. I will pay the extra money.

    However, the term is widely used within the context of United States federal gun laws, whereby a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not. In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor.

  4. #4
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    If it is a gift then yes they can buy it for you, because you are legally able to own and buy one for yourself.

    However if you give them money and buy it for you and they answer "Yes" on the 4473 on the is it for you question, then you and the buyer get the very big troubles!


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  5. #5
    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    it's only a straw purchase if the end recipient is ineligible to own a firearm under federal law. meaning, if you could go into a store and buy a gun with no problems (pass the NICS check etc, which you obviously did since you have a CPL) then any other eligible person can buy a gun and give it to you perfectly legally.

    Bobby

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    ya, my grandpa is retired from the military but he doesn't have a CPL. So, i would have to wait the waiting period for the gun.

    I just need someone that is a LEO or Military with a CPL to get it for me. I have the money.

    Everyone likes to save alittle money. Where you can.

  7. #7
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    Bobarino wrote:
    it's only a straw purchase if the end recipient is ineligible to own a firearm under federal law. meaning, if you could go into a store and buy a gun with no problems (pass the NICS check etc, which you obviously did since you have a CPL) then any other eligible person can buy a gun and give it to you perfectly legally.

    Bobby
    That information is incorrect.
    From the ATF: An example of an illegal straw purchase
    is as follows: Mr. Smith asks Mr.
    Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr.
    Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the
    money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills
    out Form 4473, he violates the law by
    falsely stating that he is the actual buyer
    of the firearm. Mr. Smith also violates
    the law because he has unlawfully aided
    and abetted or caused the making of
    false statements on the form.
    Where a person purchases a firearm
    with the intent of making a gift of the
    firearm to another person, the person
    making the purchase is indeed the true
    purchaser. There is no straw purchaser
    in these instances. In the above example,
    if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm
    with his own money to give to Mr. Smith
    as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could
    lawfully have completed Form 4473.
    The use of gift certificates would also
    not fall within the category of straw purchases.
    The person redeeming the gift
    certificate would be the actual purchaser
    of the firearm and would be properly
    reflected as such in the dealer's records.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    there's a spot on the 4473 that asks if this gun is for you or someone else. fill it out honestly and you're still legal.

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    It could be argued:

    Intent cannot be proven. Hypothetically, one could buy the gun and legally sell it to another. One could even write up a bill of sale as a receipt. You'd technically be telling the truth on 4473. You are the actual buyer, you're just gonna resell it.

    I'm not advocatingdoing thatbut as I understand it, it would work though not be strictly legal becuase intent was actually there.


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    Sounds like, if I want to be 100% legal. Is to just pay the extra 120 dollars for the pistol .

    Its a good question though. Seems like it could go either way.

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    Crypto wrote:
    Sounds like, if I want to be 100% legal. Is to just pay the extra 120 dollars for the pistol .

    Its a good question though. Seems like it could go either way.
    Agreed! I just like playing devil's advocate.

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    kito109654 wrote:
    Agreed! I just like playing devil's advocate.
    I don't know anyone in the military or retired with a CPL. If I did, I would probably go down to the gun shop and talk and be up front with the guy and see what the gun shop said about the issue.

    I can't be the only one who has thought about doing this. I'm sure this is a age old question.

  13. #13
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    As many have stated it will be a straw purchase and illegal and if you do not think so, go to your local PD and asked them if they will do it for you!

    You know this sounds more like a Troll or Bloomberg Boys asking the question, it may not be but you never know.
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    The OCDO members that called "troll!"

    Some of ya'll are super quick to do it and too many have called this guy a troll for no damn reason.

  15. #15
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    kito109654 wrote:
    The OCDO members that called "troll!"

    Some of ya'll are super quick to do it and too many have called this guy a troll for no damn reason.
    Well, we still haven't met him. I could totally BS another personality.

    I'm just saying.


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  16. #16
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    Poosharker wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    The OCDO members that called "troll!"

    Some of ya'll are super quick to do it and too many have called this guy a troll for no damn reason.
    Well, we still haven't met him. I could totally BS another personality.

    I'm just saying.
    I told ya before poosharker, I will meet ya one of these days.
    I need to buy a gun though. lol

    I'm actually about 100 bucks short right now for a full priced pistol.

  17. #17
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    Crypto wrote:
    I don't know anyone in the military or retired with a CPL. If I did, I would probably go down to the gun shop and talk and be up front with the guy and see what the gun shop said about the issue.

    I can't be the only one who has thought about doing this. I'm sure this is a age old question.
    Who is offering the discount?

    The gun manufacturer....the gun shop...both?

  18. #18
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Crypto wrote:
    I told ya before poosharker, I will meet ya one of these days.
    I need to buy a gun though. lol
    Ah, so you want to get murdered in billiards also eh?
    I already kicked Ayrk45XD's arse 9-3 after the last meet



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  19. #19
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    The gunshop has a military program that allows you to get a pistol about 125 dollars off the normal manufactures price.

  20. #20
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Crypto wrote:
    The gunshop has a military program that allows you to get a pistol about 125 dollars off the normal manufactures price.
    What are the parameters of the gunshop's program eligibility? What is specified?

    What gun are you looking to purchase?

  21. #21
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    I would like to purchase a glock 21 new not used.

    You have to be retired military, or active duty or transitioning into civilian life with a non-expired ID.

    My transitioning id, expired in 2004. but I have a CPL. I asked one of the gun shop employee's If I could show him a dd214, and prove that I was honorably discharged but he said no. The ID had to be valid. Which I think is totally dumb. If you were in the military at all you should get a discount.

    So, the question was:

    I would like someone military with a CPL to buy the pistol. So, I wouldn't have to wait the waiting period for the pistol. I could just walk out of the gun shop in 20 mins or how ever long it would take to fill out the application.

  22. #22
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    Crypto wrote:
    I would like to purchase a glock 21 new not used.

    You have to be retired military, or active duty or transitioning into civilian life with a non-expired ID.

    My id, expired in 2004. I also have a CPL.

    The reason I would want someone with a CPL is to not have a waiting period.
    I think that GLOCK bears the cost of the discount to LE and military, not the gun retailer.

    That discount program has been around for many years. As such, eligibility questions have all been answered.

    You don't qualify, based on what you've presented here.

    Trying an end-around is, uhm, unethical...if you don't actually qualify.

    I sometimes see new G21s for sale on sites such as gunbroker.com and local forums. Sometimes they're cheaper than the local gun store. Often, actually.



  23. #23
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    ya, thank you for your input. I was just asking a question. I'm glad to actually know the law now. I didn't before on the subject. It was a good question though.

    A question not asked, goes unanswered!

    Thanks to everyone that responded though.

  24. #24
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    Poosharker wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    The OCDO members that called "troll!"

    Some of ya'll are super quick to do it and too many have called this guy a troll for no damn reason.
    Well, we still haven't met him. I could totally BS another personality.

    I'm just saying.
    Well I only met you on Sunday and plenty of people called you troll when you first started posting. Did you feel welcome? Is that how we should do it around here?

    This group will not grow by screaming TROLL!

  25. #25
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    NavyLT wrote:
    Bobarino wrote:
    there's a spot on the 4473 that asks if this gun is for you or someone else. fill it out honestly and you're still legal.
    You are absolutely correct, Bobarino. So long as you don't lie on the 4473 it is perfectly legal. So, Crypto gives you the money for the gun, making him the actual source of the payment for the gun, thereby making him the actual purchaser of the gun because you are going to hand the gun over to him after you get it with his money. You go into the gun store and answer the 4473 completely honestly and the first question you answer, "Are you the actual purchaser of the firearm", you write No on the form.

    You have done nothing illegal. Now, granted, the FFL CANNOT sell you the gun, without losing their license and going to Federal prison, but YOU have done nothing illegal and are in the clear.
    Again, playing devil's advocate here...

    There's a fine line to be drawn. Technically it would still be fine to be the purchaser and then sell the firearm, or even plan to sell the firearm. The only difference is when the money trades hands. It's not illegal as long as they are not prohibited from owning a pistol.

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