Question about buying a pistol?

Crypto · Jan 19, 2010

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I would like to purchase a glock 21 new not used.

You have to be retired military, or active duty or transitioning into civilian life with a non-expired ID.

My transitioning id, expired in 2004. but I have a CPL. I asked one of the gun shop employee's If I could show him a dd214, and prove that I was honorably discharged but he said no. The ID had to be valid. Which I think is totally dumb. If you were in the military at all you should get a discount.

So, the question was:

I would like someone military with a CPL to buy the pistol. So, I wouldn't have to wait the waiting period for the pistol. I could just walk out of the gun shop in 20 mins or how ever long it would take to fill out the application.

HankT · Jan 19, 2010

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Crypto wrote:

I would like to purchase a glock 21 new not used.

You have to be retired military, or active duty or transitioning into civilian life with a non-expired ID.

My id, expired in 2004. I also have a CPL.

The reason I would want someone with a CPL is to not have a waiting period.

I think that GLOCK bears the cost of the discount to LE and military, not the gun retailer.

That discount program has been around for many years. As such, eligibility questions have all been answered.

You don't qualify, based on what you've presented here.

Trying an end-around is, uhm, unethical...if you don't actually qualify.

I sometimes see new G21s for sale on sites such as gunbroker.com and local forums. Sometimes they're cheaper than the local gun store. Often, actually.

Crypto · Jan 19, 2010

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ya, thank you for your input. I was just asking a question. I'm glad to actually know the law now. I didn't before on the subject. It was a good question though.

A question not asked, goes unanswered!

Thanks to everyone that responded though.

kito109654 · Jan 19, 2010

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Poosharker wrote:

kito109654 wrote:

The OCDO members that called "troll!"

Some of ya'll are super quick to do it and too many have called this guy a troll for no damn reason.

Click to expand...

Well, we still haven't met him. I could totally BS another personality.

I'm just saying.

Well I only met you on Sunday and plenty of people called you troll when you first started posting. Did you feel welcome? Is that how we should do it around here?

This group will not grow by screaming TROLL!

kito109654 · Jan 19, 2010

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NavyLT wrote:

Bobarino wrote:

there's a spot on the 4473 that asks if this gun is for you or someone else. fill it out honestly and you're still legal.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct, Bobarino. So long as you don't lie on the 4473 it is perfectly legal. So, Crypto gives you the money for the gun, making him the actual source of the payment for the gun, thereby making him the actual purchaser of the gun because you are going to hand the gun over to him after you get it with his money. You go into the gun store and answer the 4473 completely honestly and the first question you answer, "Are you the actual purchaser of the firearm", you write No on the form.

You have done nothing illegal. Now, granted, the FFL CANNOT sell you the gun, without losing their license and going to Federal prison, but YOU have done nothing illegal and are in the clear.

Again, playing devil's advocate here...

There's a fine line to be drawn. Technically it would still be fine to be the purchaser and then sell the firearm, or even plan to sell the firearm. The only difference is when the money trades hands. It's not illegal as long as they are not prohibited from owning a pistol.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 19, 2010

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Good post NavyLt. Otherwise we could never buy a firearm as a gift for someone.

As was pointed out in another "argument" we are a community property state, so would that mean we need to have our partners go sign the paperwork also? Since it would be in their "possession".

I think NavyLt and I both have had to deal with soon to be ex's just taking firearms, was that a straw purchase? According to my local sheriffs deputies, it's half hers too and nothing they could do about it.

Some interesting thoughts me thinks.

gogodawgs · Jan 19, 2010

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Been reading this thread all day on my phone (can't post on my palm for some reason).

Crypto: You don't qualify. You are not entitled to a discount for your service. THANK YOU for your service!

Answering 'NO' on the 4473 for are you the purchaser is a decline. Even if it is truthfull.

Crypto: shop around, other gun shops, private sales, the gun shows, deals are out there.

Troll?? perhaps, this ID 'Crypto' came about when BooBoo was kicked off... and Crypto is very cryptic...

BigDave · Jan 19, 2010

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kito109654 wrote:

NavyLT wrote:

Bobarino wrote:

there's a spot on the 4473 that asks if this gun is for you or someone else. fill it out honestly and you're still legal.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct, Bobarino. So long as you don't lie on the 4473 it is perfectly legal. So, Crypto gives you the money for the gun, making him the actual source of the payment for the gun, thereby making him the actual purchaser of the gun because you are going to hand the gun over to him after you get it with his money. You go into the gun store and answer the 4473 completely honestly and the first question you answer, "Are you the actual purchaser of the firearm", you write No on the form.

You have done nothing illegal. Now, granted, the FFL CANNOT sell you the gun, without losing their license and going to Federal prison, but YOU have done nothing illegal and are in the clear.

Click to expand...

Again, playing devil's advocate here...

There's a fine line to be drawn. Technically it would still be fine to be the purchaser and then sell the firearm, or even plan to sell the firearm. The only difference is when the money trades hands. It's not illegal as long as they are not prohibited from owning a pistol.

With this attitude of fine lines or blending, bending rules to suit your needs will have law abiding citizens wondering about people as yourself and your intentions.

This can give the armed community a bad name and second guessed everything we turn around.

So Playing Devil's Advocate, Play with in the laws with out stretching them.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 19, 2010

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If it's legal it's not stretching it.

BigDave · Jan 19, 2010

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

If it's legal it's not stretching it.

If you answer no then you will not receive the weapon, the point is mute.

kito109654 wrote:

Again, playing devil's advocate here... There's a fine line to be drawn. Technically it would still be fine to be the purchaser and then sell the firearm, or even plan to sell the firearm. The only difference is when the money trades hands. It's not illegal as long as they are not prohibited from owning a pistol.

If you are purchasing the weapon to sell it to someone else that would be a straw purchase.
If you want to be in the business selling weapons then do it legal and get a FFL.

Go ahead call BATF and ask them your hypothetical situation and then come back and tell us how they shut you down.

Anything else stupid to say SVG? What am I saying, of course you will.

kito109654 · Jan 19, 2010

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BigDave wrote:

With this attitude of fine lines or blending, bending rules to suit your needs will have law abiding citizens wondering about people as yourself and your intentions.

This can give the armed community a bad name and second guessed everything we turn around.

So Playing Devil's Advocate, Play with in the laws with out stretching them.

You play within the laws? You abide by the Snohomish County parks ban and other unjust, unconstitutional or even unjust laws?

I'm not saying I do anything, I'm leaving out what I do on purpose. I'm simply saying these things for the sake of friendly, thoughtful discussion.

On another note, briefly:

There is certainly no reason to be rude, period. That is not up for discussion.

kito109654 · Jan 19, 2010

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Agh, we are so off topic. We should start a new thread for this.

BigDave · Jan 19, 2010

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kito109654 wrote:

You play within the laws? You abide by the Snohomish County parks ban and other unjust, unconstitutional or even unjust laws?

I'm not saying I do anything, I'm leaving out what I do on purpose. I'm simply saying these things for the sake of friendly, thoughtful discussion.

On another note, briefly:

There is certainly no reason to be rude, period. That is not up for discussion.

Yes we work within the laws and as far as Snohomish County Parks Ban the law is repealed by State Preemption and thus an invalid law.
If you carry in their parks you are doing so legally although you may have to go into court to have it dismissed, your choice.

How is a thoughtful discussion is being produced by irrational thought? You are not adding to an intelligent conversation to help guide others into an understanding. You are just muddying the waters.

Oh I am sure you feel I was rude or will be, as I feel your argument is rude as well there is no fine line it is spelled out pretty clear.

gogodawgs · Jan 19, 2010

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kito109654 wrote:

You play within the laws? You abide by the Snohomish County parks ban and other unjust, unconstitutional or even unjust laws?

I'm not saying I do anything, I'm leaving out what I do on purpose. I'm simply saying these things for the sake of friendly, thoughtful discussion.

On another note, briefly:

There is certainly no reason to be rude, period. That is not up for discussion.

"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws". - Martin Luther King

However, becoming a straw purchaser for the sole reason of a 'disount' does not fit the requirement that Dr. King was talking about. You are able to purchase the firearm, the law is just.

Violating the 'county park' rule is an unjust law!

sudden valley gunner · Jan 19, 2010

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Anything else stupid to say SVG? What am I saying, of course you will.

[/quote]

Dave I wish you could debate without having to resort to personal attacks. Again tell me what is "stupid", about the statement? Oh yea everyone who never took a self defense class is stupid to you sorry forgot.

And look at my above post, before that on, take things into context please. So is it illegal to buy a gun as a gift for anyone? Hmmm does your wife sign those papers when you buy? They are her's too by your own argument in another thread? So is that a straw purchase.

Money does not have to change hands for a gun to transfer ownership? Am I wrong on this.

Please cite your source that you won't receive the guns.

Do you know any cops who would buy guns for the general
public, that argument doesn't hold water.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 19, 2010

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kito109654 wrote:

Agh, we are so off topic. We should start a new thread for this.

The OP has his questioned answered he can't get it anyway for the discount he wants.

NavyLt

Do you know if you can receive the weapon if you don't check that box? I have always checked it. I have gifted one gun I bought to my other half. For her personal protection? I know I haven't done anything illegal but it would be good to know if there is a line drawn somewhere?

kito109654 · Jan 19, 2010

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BigDave wrote:

kito109654 wrote:

You play within the laws? You abide by the Snohomish County parks ban and other unjust, unconstitutional or even unjust laws?

I'm not saying I do anything, I'm leaving out what I do on purpose. I'm simply saying these things for the sake of friendly, thoughtful discussion.

On another note, briefly:

There is certainly no reason to be rude, period. That is not up for discussion.

Click to expand...

Yes we work within the laws and as far as Snohomish County Parks Ban the law is repealed by State Preemption and thus an invalid law.
If you carry in their parks you are doing so legally although you may have to go into court to have it dismissed, your choice.

How is a thoughtful discussion is being produced by irrational thought? You are not adding to an intelligent conversation to help guide others into an understanding. You are just muddying the waters.

Oh I am sure you feel I was rude or will be, as I feel your argument is rude as well there is no fine line it is spelled out pretty clear.

I was referencing your rude remarks towards SVG. You've said nothing rude towards me.

Sure it muddies up the water but if the water is so clear then we are being regulated efficiently. No thanks to that.

My opinion is that it's legal to sell your firearm after purchasing it because....it is, according to state law we are allowed to do that. And we should be. There is no time limit on possessing your gun before you are allowed to sell it.

18 - 20 year olds are allowed to own a pistol yet stores are not allowed to sell to them. Their only choices are buying from a private party or having a pistol gifted to them. Would I help out any kid who asked? No, but it wouldn't be illegal for me to buy a gun and sell it to an 18-20 year old.

See where I'm coming from or is my argument rude? :quirky

sudden valley gunner · Jan 19, 2010

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kito109654 wrote:

I was referencing your rude remarks towards SVG. You've said nothing rude towards me.

Sure it muddies up the water but if the water is so clear then we are being regulated efficiently. No thanks to that. My opinion is that it's legal to sell your firearm after purchasing it because....it is, according to state law we are allowed to do that. And we should be. There is no time limit on possessing your gun before you are allowed to sell it.

18 - 20 year olds are allowed to own a pistol yet stores are not allowed to sell to them. Their only choices are buying from a private party or having a pistol gifted to them. Would I help out any kid who asked? No, but it wouldn't be illegal for me to buy a gun and sell it to an 18-20 year old.

See where I'm coming from or is my argument rude? :quirky

And that was what I was referring to Kito, with my comment if it is not illegal you are not stretching it.

The speed limit is 70 hey going 69 is pushing it!!!!!!:banghead:

As long as you stay with in the boundaries I have no problem with it. And feel there should be no prosecution for it.

On a side note I also believe in the above quote Gogodawgs put from Martin Luther King. You know what, come to think about it so did the founders of this country.

Oh on a side note too we discussed legal outdoor activity we should talk to Andrew about that sincehe is organizing a hike and is a lawyer. Especially since we have some under 21 here.

BigDave · Jan 19, 2010

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

Dave I wish you could debate without having to resort to personal attacks. Again tell me what is "stupid", about the statement? Oh yea everyone who never took a self defense class is stupid to you sorry forgot.

I was referring to your statement made at Posted: Tue Jan 19th, 2010 10:03 pm "If it's legal it's not stretching it." Still a stupid statement relating to the story. :dude:

As far as training it would do you some good, probably more then most.

And look at my above post, before that on, take things into context please.

Again take a look at your statement that I referenced by quoting, you are going our of context. :shock:

So is it illegal to buy a gun as a gift for anyone? Hmmm does your wife sign those papers when you buy? They are her's too by your own argument in another thread? So is that a straw purchase.

Again call BATF and report back how they shut you down. If you are buying the gun for the wife then you cannot answer lawfully that you are buying the gun for yourself. :lol:

Money does not have to change hands for a gun to transfer ownership? Am I wrong on this.

Well you have one thing right.

Please cite your source that you won't receive the guns.

Easy to prove just go to a gun shop and trying to buy a gun and answer NO! and again come back and give us a report. :banghead:

Do you know any cops who would buy guns for the general public, that argument doesn't hold water.

This was offered as sarcasm on how ridiculous thinking there was a way around buying a gun for someone else.

SVG but you know:monkey I LUV YOU MAN :monkey

gogodawgs · Jan 19, 2010

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BigDave wrote:

sudden valley gunner wrote:

Dave I wish you could debate without having to resort to personal attacks. Again tell me what is "stupid", about the statement? Oh yea everyone who never took a self defense class is stupid to you sorry forgot.

Click to expand...

I was referring to your statement made at Posted: Tue Jan 19th, 2010 10:03 pm "If it's legal it's not stretching it." Still a stupid statement relating to the story. :dude:

As far as training it would do you some good, probably more then most.

And look at my above post, before that on, take things into context please.

Click to expand...

Again take a look at your statement that I referenced by quoting, you are going our of context. :shock:

So is it illegal to buy a gun as a gift for anyone? Hmmm does your wife sign those papers when you buy? They are her's too by your own argument in another thread? So is that a straw purchase.

Click to expand...

Again call BATF and report back how they shut you down. If you are buying the gun for the wife then you cannot answer lawfully that you are buying the gun for yourself. :lol:

Money does not have to change hands for a gun to transfer ownership? Am I wrong on this.

Click to expand...

Well you have one thing right.

Please cite your source that you won't receive the guns.

Click to expand...

Easy to prove just go to a gun shop and trying to buy a gun and answer NO! and again come back and give us a report. :banghead:

Do you know any cops who would buy guns for the general public, that argument doesn't hold water.

Click to expand...

This was offered as sarcasm on how ridiculous thinking there was a way around buying a gun for someone else.

SVG but you know:monkey I LUV YOU MAN :monkey

As a former FFL holder for a big box store. The appropriate answers for page one are..... YES, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

When the first question is answered NO you will not pass NICS. This is not an unjust law.

Question about buying a pistol?

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