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Thread: open carry wwmt 3 video

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Good stuff, other than cheif re re
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

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    If you listen to the video, listen to what the chief says about detaining people , they just don't get it i guess,

    it is a good thing that i have a letter from the city attorney about training the police,

    this way there will be no mistake when they get taken into court for federal violations shh

    PSS i heard that the chief is retiring next month..

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    The chief pretty much admitted he intends to violate open carriers rights, which would thereby violate federal law for sure, Terry V Ohio, and JL v Florida, also probably state law as well. He has disgraced himself and his department with his words.

    Please, please, please everyone, email him and let him know what he said is wrong, and that he needs to take back what he said, and clarify that he won't allow anyone to be detained unless they are actually suspects of a crime.

    His name is David Headings, and this seems to be his email address.

    deheadings@ci.battle-creek.mi.us
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    oops

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    that cop is a ****** bag isn't he

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    So when is the next MOC event in Battle Creek ?

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    sprinklerguy28 wrote:
    So when is the next MOC event in Battle Creek ?
    Well thats a good question Mastiff can you do bonfires where you live? We can do a moc bonfire in February. Or even a picnic if the weather stays like this.Any one up for a bbq in the winter for battle creek?????

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    yes...

    "we want people to have their right to carry if that is what the public wants to have"

    Really? its a right that we the citizens have guaranteed by the US Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Michigan, but ultimately hinges on what the citizens want?

    Am i understanding the Chief correctly?

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    THway wrote:
    Am i understanding the Chief correctly?
    Yes, you are understanding correctly that the chief seems to be confused about what it means to be living in a republic.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The Chief has a bad case of cranial erectosis. Or HIA syndrome.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Form Channel 3 News Battle Creek, MI 1/20/10



    NEWSCHANNEL 3) – After President Barack Obama won the election, gun sales went up.

    The FBI says that in the three months following the election, the number of background checks to buy weapons increased by more than one million from the year before.

    Reports say some stores are having trouble keeping up with demands, running out of both guns and ammo.

    The right to carry weapons is part of an ongoing nationwide debate, and that debate is picking up in West Michigan.

    People across the state are carrying guns out in the open, legally.

    "I'm doing nothing different than a guy wearing a purple shirt on a Tuesday," said Steve Koch.

    Koch, of Battle Creek, has openly carried a firearm for three years. Koch is a card carrying member of Open Carry Michigan, and just one of a growing number of Michigan residents who are taking advantage of a two decade old state law that says residents are free to carry guns in the open.

    "I've always believed in the constitution and the right to defend yourself," said Koch.

    The Battle Creek Police says that as the number of residents taking advantage of that law increases, there is a possibility that it will put the department in a tight situation.

    "It catches us in a difficult bind," said Chief David Heading of the Battle Creek Police. "We understand the right to carry, but want the public's safety at the same time."

    Chief Heading says he understands the open carry law, but fears that those who are utilizing the law are testing the department's limits.

    "It's a difficult position," said Chief Heading, "they have to expect if we get a call, they will probably be somewhat detained and inquire about their intent."

    Koch says he has every intention of continuing to carry his gun out in the open.

    "You can either protect yourself or be victimized," said Koch. "There is no common ground."
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    I sent an email to both the Chief and city manager (khtsuchiyama@ci.battle-creek.mi.us):

    Dear Mr. Tsuchiyama and Chief Headings,

    The right to self-defense, and lawful carry of a firearm for that purpose, is not in conflict with community safety. In fact, safety for a community is increased when members of a community do things lawfully to increase their personal safety, such as lawfully being prepared for self-defense.

    Folks who are lawfully prepared for self-defense are not "testing the department's limits". That is a rather negative stereotype or profiling of a group of people which not only is completely false but I'm frankly surprised to hear the Chief engage in.

    But most chilling is Chief Headings' remarks about law-abiding citizens having to expect to be detained over LAWFUL conduct with no probable cause or reasonable suspicion of criminal activity having been observed or reported.

    I suggest that remark and any of the department's policies or unwritten practices reflecting it, be reviewed by the city's legal counsel before a police officer, the chief, the department, and the city find themselves in criminal or civil legal jeopardy.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Detained for doing some thing legal?. Wow How Arrogant...He is all for people to carry if that is what the public wants? It don't matter what the public wants! the Constitution". Is the Law of the Land. Period

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Sent this to both as well.



    Dear Chief Headings,



    I am President of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. a non-profit gun-rights organization. After viewing the Channel 3 interview about open carry I was shocked to hear you say that you would unlawfully detain every person you received a call on that was open carrying a handgun. I’m sure you know that any “detainment” of a citizen who is engaging in a lawful activity is in violation of federal civil rights laws (color of law) and could open you, the department and the city to a federal civil rights law suit.



    An officer can engage in casual contact with anyone, but it must be understood that unless the officer has RAS or PC that the person is free to go and does not have to answer any questions or show ID or a firearm license.



    Many departments throughout the state are coming to terms with the open carry of a firearm and realize that the law-abiding carry of a firearm is not a public safety concern. Many departments are informing their 911 operators to ask a few questions about a MWGC. Once it’s discovered that the person is just open carrying an officer can drive by and make a visual determination on how to proceed and can make a casual contact if needed. But if the officer sees that the person is just open carrying a firearm, that person should not be interfered with.



    The United States places a great deal of respect on civil liberties and frowns upon excessive use of police powers. The US Supreme court has ruled that the mere presence of a gun alone is not reason for a detainment.



    I have attached a LEAF newsletter on open carry and what officers can and can not do in regards to open carry, and a slide show LEAF produced to train officers. Please review both and pass on to your officers for review. I would be happy to present a talk to you and your officers as well.



    I hope that your comment was accidental and doesn’t reflect the policy of the Battle Creek Police Department.



    Sincerely,

    Brian Jeffs MS. CPG.

    President-Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    Sent this to both as well.



    Dear Chief Headings,



    I am President of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. a non-profit gun-rights organization. After viewing the Channel 3 interview about open carry I was shocked to hear you say that you would unlawfully detain every person you received a call on that was open carrying a handgun. I’m sure you know that any “detainment” of a citizen who is engaging in a lawful activity is in violation of federal civil rights laws (color of law) and could open you, the department and the city to a federal civil rights law suit.



    An officer can engage in casual contact with anyone, but it must be understood that unless the officer has RAS or PC that the person is free to go and does not have to answer any questions or show ID or a firearm license.



    Many departments throughout the state are coming to terms with the open carry of a firearm and realize that the law-abiding carry of a firearm is not a public safety concern. Many departments are informing their 911 operators to ask a few questions about a MWGC. Once it’s discovered that the person is just open carrying an officer can drive by and make a visual determination on how to proceed and can make a casual contact if needed. But if the officer sees that the person is just open carrying a firearm, that person should not be interfered with.



    The United States places a great deal of respect on civil liberties and frowns upon excessive use of police powers. The US Supreme court has ruled that the mere presence of a gun alone is not reason for a detainment.



    I have attached a LEAF newsletter on open carry and what officers can and can not do in regards to open carry, and a slide show LEAF produced to train officers. Please review both and pass on to your officers for review. I would be happy to present a talk to you and your officers as well.



    I hope that your comment was accidental and doesn’t reflect the policy of the Battle Creek Police Department.



    Sincerely,

    Brian Jeffs MS. CPG.

    President-Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
    Woot woot, that is why you are President.

    love this organization and all the responsable gun owners within it.

    Devery

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    I emailed the chief and this was his response. I truly feel we need to have an event there ASAP. In his letter he states if I have a CCW to conceal and if I open carry I WILL be detained.


    My email to the chief

    Dear Chief Headings,

    I am completely stunned that a Chief of Police would make comments like you did in regards to open carrying a firearm. To say those that open carry should expect to be "somewhat detained" for exercising their right to carry. In no way is the departments limits being tested. If your officer observes someone legally open carrying a firearm without any actions indicating a crime is being committed, your officers have no legal authority to detain someone. I would hope that dispatchers would be trained how to handle such calls and be able to inform the public if the person is just carrying a firearm no law is being broken. I also submit the following for your review to pass on to your department. http://www.michiganopencarry.org/node/4

    Sincerely,
    Scott Webb



    **Chief's response


    Mr. Webb,

    Are you sure that you really listened to my comments on "open carry" it was not on "concealed carry." We have a society that has been assaulted by those less responsible individuals who do mass killings on our public. Look at what happened yesterday in Virginia. My comments was on what should the police do when citizens call us when they see someone carrying a gun in the open. Should we just ignore their call because that person has yet done something illegal or should we investigate that person to see what their intent is, while recognizing their legal rights? What you saw was about a five to ten second edited version of an approximately ten minute interview. What I was saying was, if you are not going to conceal your weapon in the public expect someone to call the police and you will be detained to see what your intent is and if your weapon is legally registered. If you have a CCW then please conceal your weapon and we can concentrate on answering calls for service when you have an immediate problem and it won't take us an hour to respond.

    Believe me we have more to do than stopping responsible citizens who are obeying the law. The problem is weeding them out from those who have malicious intent. Help us in this by not causing us to waste time just because the law allows you to carry in the open. We can use our time better spent but we have to respond if some other citizen is worried about the person they see with a gun.

    Thank you,


    David Headings
    Police Chief
    Battle Creek, MI 49014
    deheadings@ci.battle-creek.mi.us




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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Depending what and when I would be up for some type of event
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    WHAT!?!?!?!?

    Their is no way this guy is serious. Is this an early April-fools joke? I don't even know what to say. How can you have a rational discussion with someone so one-sided, ignorant, and illogical. I just don't understand, he and Warren's Chief must be best buddies. I am lost for words or this would be MUCH longer!

    As always,

    God Bless
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

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    "Should we just ignore their call because that person has yet done something illegal or should we investigate that person to see what their intent is"

    "you will be detained to see what your intent is and if your weapon is legally registered."

    "problem is weeding them out from those who have malicious intent."


    This guy admitted that his department should be committing illegal acts. Without RAS or PC they cannot run anyones record nor can they check for firearms registration. He literally confessed that they are going to be committing unlawful acts against law abiding citizens without probable cause.

    Listen guys we must do something and asap. Is the 30th good for everyone? We need to find some public places (warm hopefully) to hang out and make our presence known.

    Scott with that type of response do you think it would be a good idea for us to contact the FBI? With those responses I feel they would be pressed to investigate these views by a police chief.

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    I'm with you Mike, What time are we leaving from our side of town? Even if its a few of us its better than nothing.

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    The Fish rots from the head down, It starts at that big white house, & works it's way down to the guard dogs.

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    mikestilly wrote:
    "Should we just ignore their call because that person has yet done something illegal or should we investigate that person to see what their intent is"

    "you will be detained to see what your intent is and if your weapon is legally registered."

    "problem is weeding them out from those who have malicious intent."


    This guy admitted that his department should be committing illegal acts. Without RAS or PC they cannot run anyones record nor can they check for firearms registration. He literally confessed that they are going to be committing unlawful acts against law abiding citizens without probable cause.

    Listen guys we must do something and asap. Is the 30th good for everyone? We need to find some public places (warm hopefully) to hang out and make our presence known.

    Scott with that type of response do you think it would be a good idea for us to contact the FBI? With those responses I feel they would be pressed to investigate these views by a police chief.
    You beat me to it!

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    sprinklerguy28 wrote:
    Mr. Webb,

    Are you sure that you really listened to my comments on "open carry" it was not on "concealed carry." We have a society that has been assaulted by those less responsible individuals who do mass killings on our public. Look at what happened yesterday in Virginia. Thank you,


    David Headings
    Police Chief
    Battle Creek, MI 49014
    deheadings@ci.battle-creek.mi.us


    So what did happen in Virginia yesterday? Was an OCer out killing people?



    Found it

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100120...20100120095808

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Brian needs to have a talk with this guy.

    Then, if that goes no where, a march.

    Play softball before hardball.

    Try to make a friend before he makes you enemies.

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