can a LEO stop me amd ask for id for no reason

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cato wrote:

No matter what an individual may think about the legality of a police detention I can only recommend compliance with orders. Feel free to not consent but DO comply. An officer may have information that reaches the level to allow a "Terry" investigative detention. Resistance however slight may violate 148 PC (resisting/delaying peace officer) and a greater level of resistance may constitute felony 69 PC (resisting peace officer with force).

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+1

There is just about no way to know for sure during the detention whether the LEO has sufficient circumstances to provide RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion) to justify your detention.

You would have to know plenty of courtcases whereappeals courts ruled that such-and-such circumstances did or did not provide RAS. And,if there has never been a caseabout circumstances very much like yours,you would have to guess exactly correctly how the judge in your case will rule regarding whether the LEO had RAS.

I am a big fan of, "Comply while politely refusing consent."

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+1 to compliance (but not consent).

Make it clear - verbally - that you don't consent, but never offer any physical resistance.

And contrary to what some will say, the officer has NO legal obligation to inform you of his PC or RAS before detaining you, so don't think you don't have to comply until he explains himself.

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This is a great video to give you some tools to handle an encounter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

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Don't carry I.D.

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

Don't carry I.D.

Click to expand...

Not a good idea when riding a bicycle. When an officer stops you for a violation and intends to give you a citation, he is required to identify you so that he does not give you a ticket in someone else’s name (like if you lied and gave your best friends name). Failure to ID you properly can put another innocent person (the person who's name you gave) in a real bad spot when the warrant comes you out (if your a big enough jerk to give another persons name, you are not the type of person that will take care of the ticket).

To prevent this, an officer can and probably will detain you for 40302 CVC and take you to the station for positive identification through fingerprints or another reliable source.

By not carrying ID, You have just turned a 5 minute detention into a 2-3 hours detention and you probably will be released from the station, not taken back to where you were initially detained.

CVC40302 reads,

Whenever any person is arrested for any violation of this
code, not declared to be a felony, the arrested person shall be taken
without unnecessary delay before a magistrate within the county in
which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who
has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible
with reference to the place where the arrest is made in any of the
following cases:
(a) When the person arrested fails to present his driver's license
or other satisfactory evidence of his identity for examination.
(b) When the person arrested refuses to give his written promise
to appear in court.
(c) When the person arrested demands an immediate appearance
before a magistrate.
(d) When the person arrested is charged with violating Section
23152.

To be clear, once you are properly identified, you no longer have to be taken "without unnecessary delay to a magistrate".

This is also one of the dangers of "sterile carry". It's all good until you commit a violation of the law (Such as jay walking or littering").

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greg36ff wrote:

sudden valley gunner wrote:

Don't carry I.D.

Click to expand...

Not a good idea when riding a bicycle. When an officer stops you for a violation and intends to give you a citation, he is required to identify you so that he does not give you a ticket in someone else’s name (like if you lied and gave your best friends name). Failure to ID you properly can put another innocent person (the person who's name you gave) in a real bad spot when the warrant comes you out (if your a big enough jerk to give another persons name, you are not the type of person that will take care of the ticket).

To prevent this, an officer can and probably will detain you for 40302 CVC and take you to the station for positive identification through fingerprints or another reliable source.

By not carrying ID, You have just turned a 5 minute detention into a 2-3 hours detention and you probably will be released from the station, not taken back to where you were initially detained.

CVC40302 reads,

Whenever any person is arrested for any violation of this
code, not declared to be a felony, the arrested person shall be taken
without unnecessary delay before a magistrate within the county in
which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who
has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible
with reference to the place where the arrest is made in any of the
following cases:
(a) When the person arrested fails to present his driver's license
or other satisfactory evidence of his identity for examination.
(b) When the person arrested refuses to give his written promise
to appear in court.
(c) When the person arrested demands an immediate appearance
before a magistrate.
(d) When the person arrested is charged with violating Section
23152.

To be clear, once you are properly identified, you no longer have to be taken "without unnecessary delay to a magistrate".

This is also one of the dangers of "sterile carry". It's all good until you commit a violation of the law (Such as jay walking or littering").

Click to expand...

More like, memorize your DL/ID number so you can rattle it off immediately when asked during the citation writeup. I have (memorized it, at least).

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N6ATF wrote:

greg36ff wrote:

sudden valley gunner wrote:

Don't carry I.D.

Click to expand...

Not a good idea when riding a bicycle. When an officer stops you for a violation and intends to give you a citation, he is required to identify you so that he does not give you a ticket in someone else’s name (like if you lied and gave your best friends name). Failure to ID you properly can put another innocent person (the person who's name you gave) in a real bad spot when the warrant comes you out (if your a big enough jerk to give another persons name, you are not the type of person that will take care of the ticket).

To prevent this, an officer can and probably will detain you for 40302 CVC and take you to the station for positive identification through fingerprints or another reliable source.

By not carrying ID, You have just turned a 5 minute detention into a 2-3 hours detention and you probably will be released from the station, not taken back to where you were initially detained.

CVC40302 reads,

Whenever any person is arrested for any violation of this
code, not declared to be a felony, the arrested person shall be taken
without unnecessary delay before a magistrate within the county in
which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who
has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible
with reference to the place where the arrest is made in any of the
following cases:
(a) When the person arrested fails to present his driver's license
or other satisfactory evidence of his identity for examination.
(b) When the person arrested refuses to give his written promise
to appear in court.
(c) When the person arrested demands an immediate appearance
before a magistrate.
(d) When the person arrested is charged with violating Section
23152.

To be clear, once you are properly identified, you no longer have to be taken "without unnecessary delay to a magistrate".

This is also one of the dangers of "sterile carry". It's all good until you commit a violation of the law (Such as jay walking or littering").

Click to expand...

More like, memorize your DL/ID number so you can rattle it off immediately when asked during the citation writeup. I have (memorized it, at least).

Click to expand...

Not good enough if the officer is suspicious or simply does not believe you.........Many crooks, know the date of birth, SSN and other pertinent ID info of friends and family. If you are Joe citizen and the officer has no reason to suspect anything, verbal ID may be good enough, but if not, in you go.

We all do this in our daily life. There are people that you meet and for some reason you don't trust or like them. It could be visual or verbal clues that you are not even aware of, or your unique life experiences that you are drawing from; some people just trip your "this ain't righttrigger'.

Cops have finely honed "this ain't right" triggers. They are not always right, no one is, but they learn to trust that feeling.

40302 CVC is to protect innocent people from harm. Anyone that has their identity stolen can understand that.

You are of course not required to carry ID or even show your ID in most situations, but there are some benefits to doing so.

Ever try to buy beer if you look under 30?

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greg36ff wrote:

N6ATF wrote:

greg36ff wrote:

sudden valley gunner wrote:

Don't carry I.D.

Click to expand...

Not a good idea when riding a bicycle. When an officer stops you for a violation and intends to give you a citation, he is required to identify you so that he does not give you a ticket in someone else’s name (like if you lied and gave your best friends name). Failure to ID you properly can put another innocent person (the person who's name you gave) in a real bad spot when the warrant comes you out (if your a big enough jerk to give another persons name, you are not the type of person that will take care of the ticket).

To prevent this, an officer can and probably will detain you for 40302 CVC and take you to the station for positive identification through fingerprints or another reliable source.

By not carrying ID, You have just turned a 5 minute detention into a 2-3 hours detention and you probably will be released from the station, not taken back to where you were initially detained.

CVC40302 reads,

Whenever any person is arrested for any violation of this
code, not declared to be a felony, the arrested person shall be taken
without unnecessary delay before a magistrate within the county in
which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who
has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible
with reference to the place where the arrest is made in any of the
following cases:
(a) When the person arrested fails to present his driver's license
or other satisfactory evidence of his identity for examination.
(b) When the person arrested refuses to give his written promise
to appear in court.
(c) When the person arrested demands an immediate appearance
before a magistrate.
(d) When the person arrested is charged with violating Section
23152.

To be clear, once you are properly identified, you no longer have to be taken "without unnecessary delay to a magistrate".

This is also one of the dangers of "sterile carry". It's all good until you commit a violation of the law (Such as jay walking or littering").

Click to expand...

More like, memorize your DL/ID number so you can rattle it off immediately when asked during the citation writeup. I have (memorized it, at least).

Click to expand...

Not good enough if the officer is suspicious or simply does not believe you.........Many crooks, know the date of birth, SSN and other pertinent ID info of friends and family. If you are Joe citizen and the officer has no reason to suspect anything, verbal ID may be good enough, but if not, in you go.

We all do this in our daily life. There are people that you meet and for some reason you don't trust or like them. It could be visual or verbal clues that you are not even aware of, or your unique life experiences that you are drawing from; some people just trip your "this ain't righttrigger'.

Cops have finely honed "this ain't right" triggers. They are not always right, no one is, but they learn to trust that feeling.

40302 CVC is to protect innocent people from harm. Anyone that has their identity stolen can understand that.

You are of course not required to carry ID or even show your ID in most situations, but there are some benefits to doing so.

Ever try to buy beer if you look under 30?

Click to expand...

I doubt crooks memorize DL/ID number, social, DOB, address, mother's maiden name,, etc. profile all of the same relative. I can see some of these, but not all combined.

That's what those fancy computers in every police car are for - to show pictures. I don't have an identical twin or a sibling with my last name.

And I don't buy alcohol. The only time I show my ID is at my bank, even though they don't ask.

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So, hypothetically, if I decide to go streaking, where would I keep my ID? :shock:

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So, hypothetically, if I decide to go streaking, where would I keep my ID?

Click to expand...

Use your imagination, but make sure the ID is handled with rubber gloves.

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greg36ff wrote:

sudden valley gunner wrote:

Don't carry I.D.

Click to expand...

This is also one of the dangers of "sterile carry". It's all good until you commit a violation of the law (Such as jay walking or littering").

Click to expand...

I didn't say it was for the weak or faint of heart.

The LEO in the OP admitted that the OP did nothing wrong. Don't J-walk, or commit infractions. If the LEO can state an RAS that is a different matter. Give your name and address.

Also I don't know how California works but most states don't require a drivers license/I.D. to ride a bike.

Fight for your rights don't give them up because it might cause you to be temporarily uncomfortable. The 4th is a very very important right. Many focus on the 2A but in most stops because of our firearms they are violating the 4th more than any other right.

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

greg36ff wrote:

sudden valley gunner wrote:

Don't carry I.D.

Click to expand...

This is also one of the dangers of "sterile carry". It's all good until you commit a violation of the law (Such as jay walking or littering").

Click to expand...

I didn't say it was for the weak or faint of heart.

The LEO in the OP admitted that the OP did nothing wrong. Don't J-walk, or commit infractions. If the LEO can state an RAS that is a different matter. Give your name and address.

Also I don't know how California works but most states don't require a drivers license/I.D. to ride a bike.

Fight for your rights don't give them up because it might cause you to be temporarily uncomfortable. The 4th is a very very important right. Many focus on the 2A but in most stops because of our firearms they are violating the 4th more than any other right.

Click to expand...

Fair enough, we all make the choices that are important to us. If you have nothing to hide, all that you are facing is the discomfort of a prolonged detention.

I am simply making people aware of a law that they should know about. Few of us go out and intentionally break the law. Most of us unintentionally break several minor, sometimes even silly laws every day and if an officer intends to issue a citation, you must identify yourself. Often times, verbal ID is not enough.

You are correct that you do not need a license to ride a bicycle; the problem exists when you commit a violation and ID is needed and there are LOTS of laws that regulate riding a bicycle.Most are never enforced, but that does not mean that they cannot be.

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Having read this entire thread... (along with others) it's kind'a sad you have to be a freakin' lawyer just to walk/ride down a California street. Y'all are livin' in a police state. This is not NORMAL most places. I did some posting on Officer.com for a bit... and determined that the JBT attitude ofCalifornia LEO's seems to be endemic. They're all about their 'authority' and short on respecting rights of citizens that most of us take for granted.

'Statists'... of the 'DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY' kind. All authority is derived form the people (supposedly) but their attitude seems to be that they are an entity unto themselves. 'Back in 1967 (I was 23) I was walkin' up Broadway in San Diego coming fromthe VFW 'bout two blocks away. I lived on E street about a block or sooff Broadway at the time... 'n was 'Navy'. I was wearing a white pocket t-shirt ) tucked in), Levis 'n boots. Short hair, mustache, no visible tat's (only have one anyway) 'n no hat. Clean... 'n I'm a white guy, 6' ~ 175#. Time was about 5:30 PM. Still daylight. This black 'n white comes up from behind 'n this cop ridin' shotgun hollers "Hey punk... where do you think you're going?" I was startled by this to say the least.

I turned on my heel: "Punk?I'm a Second Class Petty Officer (E-5) in the United States Navy Mister... I'm hardly a punk... and where I'm going is none of your business. 'You have nothing better to do than harrass people?" His expression & demeanor changed and he said somethin' to the cop driving... 'n w/o a word they just drove off.

I never forgot that... 'cause it pissed me off. I mentioned it to the Squadron Legal Officer the next day'n he said he'd 'look into it'... butI never followed up on it... 'Had more important things to do. As for the OP... gettin' kneeled 'n cuffed is a bit much. They do whatever they can get away with and they DO IT 'cause they can. This isn't law enforcement... it's power trippin'. No wonder these CA PD's don't get public support. I think they'd be just as happy to lock up the entire CA state population 'n then go have a donut. Be careful who you vote for there... 'cause that's the root of the problem. I'll never go west of the Colorado again... I view CA as a Socialist Police State where I have more to fear from the Government than Iwould from the criminals.

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greg36ff wrote:

snip

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You are right it is good to be informed of what might happen too. And Washington state has many bicycle laws that are rarely enforced also.

To me it is a two way street. It is worth the hassle if it makes it easier for someone else in the future. And every time I am hassled I will make sure I hassle the LEO back, with a minimum of a complaint to the department. Another reason why especially in California, discreet recording is your best friend.