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Thread: Oh, the horrors of lower education!

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Zero Tolerance or Zero Common Sense?

    Reading through this reminded me of dozens of similar stories I've read over the last couple of decades. I agree that in this day and age, guns and schools aren't a great combination.

    The grossly unacceptable behavior of school officials as depicted in the article, however, is far worse than anything done by the kids.

    Our Constitution guarantees us our right to keep and bear arms. That right has been supported in countless court decisions from the lowest courts to the highest court. In 43 of our 50 United States, open carry is legal. It's a lawful activity, engaged in by law-abiding citizens. The mindless and severe punishment of children on the sole ground their behavior reminds some school official of this lawful right is insanity. It's abuse! It will scar kids far, far worse than than having a tongue stuck out at them.

    About three years ago, I began writing letters to school administrators who found themselves in the news over these very embarrassing faux pas. I also wrote to the school board, calling for the removal (suspension or expulsion) of administrators who exhibit such gross lack of judgment they would suspend or expel children for what most psychologists call "normal play."

    To date, I've written more than sixty such letters, and do you know how many our tax-payer-supplied school officials have responded to my letters?

    Not one.

    I could wax on, pointing out the utter insanity of each and every one of the items mentioned in the link. However, I won't do that.

    Instead, I may just include a copy of the attachment as a means to put the actions of such administrators into an appropriate context, and would encourage all of you to do the same, should you be similarly outraged by school administrators who demonstrate a similar lack of judgment, experience, and knowledge when it comes to the education of our children.

    - since9

    ETA: Many of the boys who play such "finger-gun" games grow up to serve our nation's citizens as firemen, policemen, paramedics, and members of the military.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I hear ya.

    When I was a child we drew all kinds of pictures of guns etc. Some even hung up on the classroom art wall.

    Now days. Zero tolerance = zero ability to do their job properly.

    My friends son was kicked out of school because he was talking about shooting bb guns with me on the bus. His dad was irate and had a very long talk with the principal ending up with his sons reinstatement.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt
    http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com.../DDDoA.sml.pdf ~7 MB 700+ pages $40 large format PB. The PDF is better because it is searchable.



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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    +1 a good read. I need to get an e-reader for this.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    The application of this 'zero tolerance' nonsense lacks any sense at all. Reactionary social engineeringhystronics run amok.

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    'They' are hijacking our language.

    You and I would call "zero tolerance", instead, thoughtlessness.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    since9 wrote:
    Zero Tolerance or Zero Common Sense?


    ETA: Many of the boys who play such "finger-gun" games grow up to serve our nation's citizens as firemen, policemen, paramedics, and members of the military.
    Look who else likes finger gun games. Sup!

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    My son was forced to turn his shirt inside out and told to never wear it to school again. depicting a picture of a colt peacemaker pistol and printed wordsstating Blessed are the peacemakers.out in Delaware back in 97 or 98 he learned at a young age that the the school administration wasn't always right or even the smartest people in the building, but they were in charge..

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Zero tolerance is a classic oxymoron IMO.

    It would be much more honest for them to say that they have No Tolerance.

    Used to be that schools fostered critical thinking and outside the box solutions.
    Now all students (puppets) are forced to color within the lines and with what color crayon. Problem is its on recycled paper where the work/decisions have already been made for them - just fill in the blank spaces.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Even whenI was kid I felt school was a sort of prison. The zero tolerance garbage hadn't started yet even when I graduated HS in 1990, but the stupidity had already started. I was made to see the guidance counselor over a drawing I did depicting myself as part animal- basically anthro art as it would be see as today. Now no one really cares if kids do anthro drawings today, do they? Back then there wasn't an "anthro thing" just yet.

    Things in MS andHS that I saw as stupid:

    -had to ask to go use bathroom during class

    - couldn't go outside the school building except if the class you were inrequired it

    -teachers punishing whole class for something 1 kid did, since no one dared snitch on the one kid- such was not done and teachers should have known they could never get kids to break unwritten kid rules.

    -mean teachers- when they were mean even to the good hard working kids

    - the fact that in 12th grade I wanted to do my big class research assignment on gun control issues, but the teacher told me that topic was already taken. LOL- ok this is trivial, but I was obsessed with the topic. I ended up doing "victim's rights", and the critical thinking involved might have made me have a lightbulb moment such as " what if the person was never a victim because they shot the BG before the BG could do anything terrible?". However that was so many years ago, I really can't recall.

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    This is what happens when you let liberals run things ... these teachers are a product of liberal policies and teachings at universities. And with the current Secretary of Education, you could even argue that they are trying to 'homosexualize' the boys :what:

    I went back to college as a 40 year old adult (10 years ago) and had several run-ins with professors and students who were liberals.

    One such run-in wound up in the Dean's office where my failing grade was reversed by the Dean and I still had to settle for a B instead of the A I should have gotten.

    Another run-in and the Dean of the Art Department (not a liberal)transferred me into the class he was teaching rather than leave me with the liberal professor. :celebrate

    The run-ins with the liberal students at least got me an A for discussion in the class

    And the male foreign exchange students went back home knowing that most Americans owned guns and didn't *go off the deep end* and shoot people indiscriminately ... one even had the gumption to ask me straight out if I carried a gun ... I told him 'no' but I don't think he believed me ...
    cheers - okboomer
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    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    "ETA: Many of the boys who play such "finger-gun" games grow up to serve our nation's citizens as firemen, policemen, paramedics, and members of the military." -- since9


    ...andlikewise since pre-modern time (i.e., ancient/medieval/Renaissance), boys played with wooden swords...and that didn't make them any less suited forbecoming adultsin their respective times...nor were they likely to grow up emasculated sissies, or in any way confused about their gender.

    Today, however, America is too much a nation of emasculated, helpless limp-wristed "males" (and masculine women!) be they "metrosexual" or otherwise. Just another reason for our poor image abroad, let alone how or enemies view us -- weak Paper Tigers.

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    okboomer wrote:
    snip.....

    one even had the gumption to ask me straight out if I carried a gun ... I told him 'no' but I don't think he believed me ...
    I don't either.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Wow, things really have changed!

    When I was in 10th grade back in 1995, my English teacher let me write a small report on a firearm of my choosing every week and read it aloud in class.

    I would go over the history, handling and firing of different firearms.

    Keep in mind, this was in the communist sate of Maryland too!

    If that were allowed today, the teacher would probably be sued and I would have been expelled or maybe even committed.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Today, however, America is too much a nation of emasculated, helpless limp-wristed "males" (and masculine women!) be they "metrosexual" or otherwise. Just another reason for our poor image abroad, let alone how or enemies view us -- weak Paper Tigers.


    LOL ha ha ha ha... ( you mean women like myself? and I am not a lesbian either.) I guess better to have a masculine woman, than a girly metrosexual man. I used to know a metrosexual man. He was as heterosexual as any man can be, and extra horny too, and rather addicted to porn of women with fine tushes. But OMG, he loved to shop! Suits, shirts, shoes, jewelry...at least he went gun shopping with me a few times, which is about the only shopping I have ever enjoyed besides book stores, ammo and hunting/trapping gear shopping, and the few times I went to taxidermy conventions and perused the dealer tables( I do most of my shopping mail order/online though).This man was the male equivilent of a woman! He would ask if this pair of slacks match this shirt, and so on. Then he would complain every time ( alot) some "f-a-g-g-o-t" would flirt with him somewhere.



    ( the filter changed that f-man word to wimpgot LOL)


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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    I don't either.

    Yata hey
    The question is "how many?"
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:
    Look who else likes finger gun games. Sup!
    That's it! He should be expelled!

    Seriously - that pic would make a great appeal if one's child is ever suspended or expelled for playing "finger guns," along with a polite letter.

    If that didn't work, perhaps (I'm not suggesting it - be your own judge) along with a copy of the one-pager linked in the OP.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    if i may ask...........so how many people actually encourage their children nowadays to go against the masses and let them do reports on guns or other gun related topics, and then fight it if they get in trouble???


    i mean what happened to freedom of speech etc.....??? thinking that TALKING about the history of a certain brand or model of gun, or anything gun related is going to make the class into violent criminals or cause a shooting is ABSOLUTE ********.

    and if my kid would get in trouble for wearing a t-shirt that has something gun related on it, and got in trouble, i would totally have to start some **** over that, because otherwise you are just allowing them to dictate your right to express yourself. which means that next thing you know your kid won't be allowed to wear anything with hunting/camo pattern on it, or won't be allowed to wear anything that in any way hits at hunting, because that's gun related. or they won't be allowed to talk about movies in school because they depict guns. or they won't be allowed to breath, because proper breathing is used during shooting.....................ok so maybe that last one was a bit much.......but you see where i'm going with this.





    i do have to agree though that schools and people in general are becoming wussyfied. i remember when i was in elementary school, if you had some beef with somebody, you took it out in the schoolyard, settled your dispute with a few punches, and then you went back inside and sat next to each other during lunch and everything was fine. hell i even had a principal arrange a fight after school ones so we could settle a dispute between me and another guy. after that we were friends again.
    even in gym, they won't let you do alot of stuff today that we did back then, because "somebody might get hurt".
    or what about this ******** that you can't play dodgeball in school anymore because "it singles out the fat kids". THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. survival of the fittest.


    did you know that the human race is the ONLY animal in the world that encourages the weak and breeding of the week??? every other animal in the world throws the week out of the heard to protect themselves instead of wasting their strenght protecting the weak, and if you want to breed, you have to proof yourself to ensure that ONLY the strong breed, and therefore continue a STRONG species.
    Humans on the other hand, seem to thrive on encouraging breeding a weaker and weaker species in themselves.

    i keep saying...........it's just a matter of time before nature fights back and brings down a worldwide natural disaster, and then there are going to be very few humans left, and it's only going to be the strongest.

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    and if my kid would get in trouble for wearing a t-shirt that has something gun related on it, and got in trouble, i would totally have to start some @#$% over that, because otherwise you are just allowing them to dictate your right to express yourself.

    It was just a shirt, and at that time and place,we gained more ground wth my sons intellect by explaining to him and convincing him to live/watch/learn/and assess society for himself. He is 26 yrs. old now and a lot cooler headed than the oldman, but stupid and blind aren't in his character. knows the world is full of sheep, and he don't like mutton.

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    We want to blame the schools and the administration of the schools but all of this zero tolerance actually comes from the courts. My wife is an elementary school teacher and unless you have been through it you cannot believe the paperwork and mess they have to go through to get a disruptive student any help or dicipline. At a meeting about one student a few weeks ago a teacher mentioned that the student may be autistic. A defination of character lawsuit has now been filed against that teacher. The student has spent as much time out of school this year as in. She is now being raised by her grandmother because she was taken from her drug addicted mother. her grandmother had seen her twice in the 9 years until she showed up at her door to be raised.

    If two students get in a fight it isn't the students who get in trouble but the teacher that was supposed to be in charge of the students. If you don't believe it just let two students fight and see who gets sued. Better yet let six sixth graders sneak off into an unoccupied classroom (3 girls and 3 boys) and start having sex. (actual story) It won't be the poor children in trouble but the teacher that was supposed to be watching them. It isn't the administration or teachers coming up with all these policies but the courts and juries. I see it every day and my wife was hoping to teach one more year before retiring but I don't think she is going to make it.

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    sorry, but your boo-hoo, oh the poor teacher stuff is bunk. It's teachers who call the cops on little kids for drawing a picture of a gun. Its teachers that drag a student to the priciple's office to be expelled for drawing a gun or even mentioning the word.



    it teachers that try to get a girl expelled for taking a Midol tablet for her cramps. it's teachers that brain wash kids (yound and old) that guns are bad and encourage children to turn in their parents for gun possession.







    Its teachers and teacher's unions that gladly traumatize young children in order to get an ego trip and get off on their petty little power play behaviour. Hope your wife can hang on long enough to get her retirement , but, public school teachers are GENERALLY low life types from what I've seen . I have very little respect for them.

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    I got suspended in HS for refusing to turn my GUNS N ROSES shirt inside-out. There's no such thing as freedom of speech anymore.

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    Schools are actively training kids to tellauthoratative figuresif their parents own guns orif they usedrugs.
    be it court mandated or not, it still is not right!

    Anyonehear the story about the police raiding a familieshome and looking for drugs due to a teacher alerting them to drug use in the home?

    Allegedly here is what happened;
    The teacher was asking these kids in her class if their parents used drugs. A young girl said "My parents use drugs, and so do I, mommy gives them tome a few times a week".
    The police questioned the girl, from thatthey were able to get a warrant for a home search, the child was taken into custody by thecounty, and whenthis was all happening, one of the counselors finally figured out what this little girl was referring to was her mom frying eggs in a cast-iron pan for breakfast!

    Remember the "This is your brain on drugs" commercial? That is what made the kid think a fried egg is drugs. and the teacher acted on this without any other questions.

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    Schools are actively training kids to tellauthoratative figuresif their parents own guns orif they usedrugs.
    be it court mandated or not, it still is not right!

    Anyonehear the story about the police raiding a familieshome and looking for drugs due to a teacher alerting them to drug use in the home?

    Allegedly here is what happened;
    The teacher was asking these kids in her class if their parents used drugs. A young girl said "My parents use drugs, and so do I, mommy gives them tome a few times a week".
    The police questioned the girl, from thatthey were able to get a warrant for a home search, the child was taken into custody by thecounty, and whenthis was all happening, one of the counselors finally figured out what this little girl was referring to was her mom frying eggs in a cast-iron pan for breakfast!

    Remember the "This is your brain on drugs" commercial? That is what made the kid think a fried egg is drugs. and the teacher acted on this without any other questions.
    The whole "war on drugs" is another debacle thats ruining this country. And may I also add another tool for taking guns away from law abiding citizens.

    Look at all the gun bans that have been put in place since Nixon instituted the what on drugs campaign.

    Not to mention all of the civilian lives AND Police officer lives lost because of it.
    By the way, drug usage has INCREASED 40% since as well.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Drugs in the home. A second grade teacher tells the children to sit down in their seats and one little boy begs to keep standing up. After some questions she finds that his behind is too sore for him to sit. She takes him down to the nurses office where they find he has been spanked until he has actual open wounds. They call DSS who goes to the home and finds the mother absolutely stoned. After investigation she was not only charged with several drug charges including distribution and providing drugs to minors but with child abuse.

    Yup, teachers should stay out of the private lives of the students and let the parents beat their children half to death. Or in one other case my wife was involved with the children had to sleep under the porch when their mother's boyfriend came over because he didn't like kids and would beat them if they went inside. Just low life theacher that interfer with parents who refuse to give their children any food other than what they get at school. Definitely should stay out of the decision to starve their children just because they decide that their cocaine is more important than food for their kids. These are just a few of the cases that my wife has had to put up with.

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