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Thread: Attaching a collapsable stock to a WASR 10

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    I recently removed the fixed wooden stock from my WASR 10 (AK-47 variant) and registered it as a pistol. I'm looking to either attach a underfolding stock or a side folding stock.

    First of all, what kind would be better? What are the pro's & con's of each (if any). What kind/brand would you suggest and why?

    Second, are the easy to install on my own? It looks like I would have to remove a rivet to install the underfolding stock (I'm not sure about the side folder, I have never seen one on an AK in person).

    Third, how do I install either on my type of rifle (now technically a pistol)? Any links?

    Thanks

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    I recently removed the fixed wooden stock from my WASR 10 (AK-47 variant) and registered it as a pistol. I'm looking to either attach a underfolding stock or a side folding stock.

    First of all, what kind would be better? What are the pro's & con's of each (if any). What kind/brand would you suggest and why?

    Second, are the easy to install on my own? It looks like I would have to remove a rivet to install the underfolding stock (I'm not sure about the side folder, I have never seen one on an AK in person).

    Third, how do I install either on my type of rifle (now technically a pistol)? Any links?

    Thanks
    Your WASR began life as a rifle. There is nothing you can do in the State of Michigan or any other state to ever make it a "pistol" according to Federal Law. If you have your WASR laying around without a stock, it is a Felony as the total length is too short. You would have to register it as a short barreled rifle. This will cost you $200 for the tax stamp.

    Does the state of Michigan require you to "register" a folding stock rifle as a "pistol" for their purposes? There is nothing necessary to physically add a side folding stock to your WASR other than bolting it on.

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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    I recently removed the fixed wooden stock from my WASR 10 (AK-47 variant) and registered it as a pistol. I'm looking to either attach a underfolding stock or a side folding stock.

    First of all, what kind would be better? What are the pro's & con's of each (if any). What kind/brand would you suggest and why?

    Second, are the easy to install on my own? It looks like I would have to remove a rivet to install the underfolding stock (I'm not sure about the side folder, I have never seen one on an AK in person).

    Third, how do I install either on my type of rifle (now technically a pistol)? Any links?

    Thanks
    Your WASR began life as a rifle. There is nothing you can do in the State of Michigan or any other state to ever make it a "pistol" according to Federal Law. If you have your WASR laying around without a stock, it is a Felony as the total length is too short. You would have to register it as a short barreled rifle. This will cost you $200 for the tax stamp.

    Does the state of Michigan require you to "register" a folding stock rifle as a "pistol" for their purposes? There is nothing necessary to physically add a side folding stock to your WASR other than bolting it on.
    what Interceptor said......get a side folder, they are better.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Let me shed a little light on Michigan's dumb ass laws for those in other states.

    A gun less than 30" is considered a "pistol" by Michigan law. This includes if the stock is folded in and it measures less than 30". Federal law is NOT the issue here.

    Some Michigan residents, including me, have registered long guns of a smaller size than 30" OAL so that we can carry them in our vehicles, and perhaps at times on our person under the legal protections of our CPL's and Michigan's pistol laws as opposed to Michigan's long gun laws.

    Michigan is not a free state, and others have described this as something like "grasping at the freedom we still have". I think that is a fair assessment.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    Let me shed a little light on Michigan's dumb ass laws for those in other states.

    A gun less than 30" is considered a "pistol" by Michigan law. This includes if the stock is folded in and it measures less than 30". Federal law is NOT the issue here.

    Some Michigan residents, including me, have registered long guns of a smaller size than 30" OAL so that we can carry them in our vehicles, and perhaps at times on our person under the legal protections of our CPL's and Michigan's pistol laws as opposed to Michigan's long gun laws.

    Michigan is not a free state, and others have described this as something like "grasping at the freedom we still have". I think that is a fair assessment.
    Federal Law IS an issue if you have no stock on a rifle with a short barrel and you do not meet the NFA dictated minimum length. A WASR (16" barrel) with no stock is a Felony charge in waiting. If he transported the WASR with no stock to be "registered", he was clearly violating Federal law.

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    If you have your WASR laying around without a stock, it is a Felony as the total length is too short.
    I think that is a little too broad of a statement, Maybe if you had stated "If you use, or carry that rifle without the stock attached to make it a legal length" would be a better description.

    Nothing in federal law prohibits someone from doing their own gunsmithing work at home,so If I happen to have an AR on my workbench without the stockand recoil bufferattached, I am not violating any laws.

    I believe Michigan has another special requirement for short rifles, if they are legal at the federal level, but still fall under a certain length in MI, additional registration is needed to stay within their unique laws.

    Can anyone expand on this?

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    If you have your WASR laying around without a stock, it is a Felony as the total length is too short.
    I think that is a little too broad of a statement, Maybe if you had stated "If you use, or carry that rifle without the stock attached to make it a legal length" would be a better description.

    Nothing in federal law prohibits someone from doing their own gunsmithing work at home,so If I happen to have an AR on my workbench without the stockand recoil bufferattached, I am not violating any laws.

    I believe Michigan has another special requirement for short rifles, if they are legal at the federal level, but still fall under a certain length in MI, additional registration is needed to stay within their unique laws.

    Can anyone expand on this?
    If you are in the process of changing stocks, it would be a reasonable defense. If you have a rifle in your gun safe with no stock and the total length does not meet the minimum, it would technically be a violation. Certainly if you leave the house with your rifle minus the stock and it isn't the minimum length, there would be issues if you were to be checked. He mentioned the Michigan "registration" requirement above if the rifle does not meet the 30" minimum Michigan rule.

    Of course the reality is that in WI, the odds of someone who is not a drug dealer having their home searched is near zero. You could have a dozen short barreled rifles and shotguns and unregistered machine guns and no one would ever find out. I am only speaking of the letter of the law.

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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    Federal Law IS an issue if you have no stock on a rifle with a short barrel and you do not meet the NFA dictated minimum length. A WASR (16" barrel) with no stock is a Felony charge in waiting. If he transported the WASR with no stock to be "registered", he was clearly violating Federal law.
    SBR's are illegal in Michigan, and no one in the Michigan forum has one or intends to make one, other than perhaps me when I make it back to Arizona. You are confused or perhaps misinformed. 16" is the minimum length of a rifle barrel to NOT be a NFA weapon, and a WASR 10 with the stock removed is a little over 26" from end to end, making it very clearly NOT an NFA weapon, instead keeping it well within the federal boundaries of a regular rifle. There is absolutely nothing illegal about this in any way.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    SNIP
    If you are in the process of changing stocks, it would be a reasonable defense. If you have a rifle in your gun safe with no stock and the total length does not meet the minimum, it would technically be a violation. Certainly if you leave the house with your rifle minus the stock and it isn't the minimum length, there would be issues if you were to be checked. He mentioned the Michigan "registration" requirement above if the rifle does not meet the 30" minimum Michigan rule.
    MCL 750.222 definesSBR's in MIchigan as:

    (k) “Short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having 1 or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a weapon made from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

    Key word here is: "or"

    If the OP's WASR has a barrel less than 16 inches in length (it doesn't), it's a SBR in Michigan regardless if the fixed stock is still on it or has been removed.

    or

    If the OP's WASR has a barrel 16 inches in length or longer and the over all length (OAL) is less than 26 inches, with or without the fixed stock removed, it's a SBR in Michigan.

    A resident of Michigan holding a CPL can legally carrythe WASR, in a vehicle and CC or OC on foot, as long as the WASR has a barrel not less than 16 inches in length, the OAL is not less than 26 inches or more than 30 inches and is registered as a pistol.

    MCL 750.222 defines a pistol in Michigan as:

    (e) “Pistol” means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm.



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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    SNIP
    If you are in the process of changing stocks, it would be a reasonable defense. If you have a rifle in your gun safe with no stock and the total length does not meet the minimum, it would technically be a violation. Certainly if you leave the house with your rifle minus the stock and it isn't the minimum length, there would be issues if you were to be checked. He mentioned the Michigan "registration" requirement above if the rifle does not meet the 30" minimum Michigan rule.

    If the OP's WASR has a barrel less than 16 inches in length (it doesn't), it's a SBR in Michigan regardless if the fixed stock is still on it or has been removed.

    or

    If the OP's WASR has a barrel 16 inches in length or longer and the over all length (OAL) is less than 26 inches, with or without the fixed stock removed, it's a SBR in Michigan.
    I am not sure of what you are trying to say different in your post. We both seem to be in agreement on Federal NFA requirements.


    I am not concerned about the Michigan rule as he is taking care of that by "registering" it so that he can have a folding stock. Apparently Michigan does not measure with the stock extended like Federal law does.

    16" and 26" is Federal law.No Stock making it less than 26" over all length and a 16" barrel is a SBR according to Federal law and legally needs the $200NFA stamp as it does not meet the 26" minimum. 26"-30" Michigan rulewould not be applicable for the WASR in questionif it is less than 26" without a stock.

    The only fact in question isif the WASR inis less than 26" without the stock or not. If it happens to be at or over, he is OK. If it is less than 26" it would be a felony waiting to be charged.



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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    SNIP
    If you are in the process of changing stocks, it would be a reasonable defense. If you have a rifle in your gun safe with no stock and the total length does not meet the minimum, it would technically be a violation. Certainly if you leave the house with your rifle minus the stock and it isn't the minimum length, there would be issues if you were to be checked. He mentioned the Michigan "registration" requirement above if the rifle does not meet the 30" minimum Michigan rule.

    If the OP's WASR has a barrel less than 16 inches in length (it doesn't), it's a SBR in Michigan regardless if the fixed stock is still on it or has been removed.

    or

    If the OP's WASR has a barrel 16 inches in length or longer and the over all length (OAL) is less than 26 inches, with or without the fixed stock removed, it's a SBR in Michigan.
    I am not sure of what you are trying to say different in your post. We both seem to be in agreement on Federal NFA requirements.


    I am not concerned about the Michigan rule as he is taking care of that by "registering" it so that he can have a folding stock. Apparently Michigan does not measure with the stock extended like Federal law does.

    16" and 26" is Federal law.No Stock making it less than 26" over all length and a 16" barrel is a SBR according to Federal law and legally needs the $200NFA stamp as it does not meet the 26" minimum. 26"-30" Michigan rulewould not be applicable for the WASR in questionif it is less than 26" without a stock.

    The only fact in question isif the WASR inis less than 26" without the stock or not. If it happens to be at or over, he is OK. If it is less than 26" it would be a felony waiting to be charged.

    I wasn't in disagreement with you in any way, I was just demonstrating how 750.222 (definition of SBR) is two-fold and that both parts do not have to be met to constitute a SBR in Michigan. And, to agree that if the WASR had a 16" barrel or longer, OAL is not less than 26" and more than 30" (fixed stock or not), it needs to be registered as a pistol in Michigan and can be carried as such (CC or OC) in Michigan.

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