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Thread: Open Carry on personal property and relocating

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    Hello , I have acouple questions.

    1.Is it legal to open carry on your personal property? I live in S.C. and may be relocating back to N.Y.. Here it is legal to open carry on your personal property andyou can also open carry on any ones property that says that it is OK.

    2. If I have a CCW in S.C. and relocate to N.Y. how do the laws work as far as being legal with pistols and no permits? I'm not expected to sell my guns before I move am? That will NOT happen. So if anyone knows the process, some info would be great. Thanks

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    To the BEst of my knowledge you can't possess a handgun in any part of NY without a permit, even if it is in your own home,so i would call up the local county police office, of where you are moving to, and start asking quesitons.

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    All handguns (except antiques/replicas) posessed within New York State must be registered to the holder of a New York State Pistol License, the handgun make, model and SN appearing on the license.

    Anyone in posession of a handgun (except law enforcement/military) that does not appear on their NYS license is committing a crime.

    Being on your own property is irellevant.

    Open Carry outside of a range or legal hunting area is not the norm in NYS, however some rural counties upstate do not have a problem with OC.

    Choosing where to reside in NYS has a great influence on your lifestyle. Obtaining an unrestricted carrylicense in a pro-gun county in upstate NY means that you can carry concealed throughtout the rest of the state except NYC.

    With a non-res carry license from PA, andVermont being Vermont, youhave tremendous freedom when traveling interstate with a self-defense handgun. Just stay away from NYC,NJ and Canada.



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    Wheelgun is correct. To have a pistol on your person or in your home without a NYS pistol permit is illegal. Out of state permits are not accepted anywhere in NYS. If you walk around with a pistol in your yard visable to others you may be charged with brandishing a weapon. NYS pistol permits are concealed carry permits only - there is no open carry here. To obtain a pistol permit - you must first be a state resident. If you bring a pistol into NYS without a permit you have 2 options: one, you can surrender your pistols to the local sherriff's office to holdor two, you can turn them over to a gun dealer to hold for you. For them to do this you are basically giving them your guns until such time as they transfer them back to you and a fee may be involved. It take 3-6 months to obtain a NYS permit. Some counties are requiring firearm safety courses as a prerequisite and it must be done locally within the county. My county as an example, will not accept courses from other counties - even those given by law enforcement. Depending on which countyyou relocate to,unless you have a compelling reason to carry, expect the local judge to place restrictions upon you permit. Some rural counties don't do this but it is becoming more common place, especially around urban areas due to increasing crime.

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    I think you are incorrect about open carry on your own property, please see the following laws regarding;

    Section 16-246 Brandishing a weapon.



    [size=(a) A person commits the offense of brandishing a weapon when ][/size][size= the person][/size][size= exhibit][/size][size= s][/size][size= any deadly or dangerous weapon in a rude, angry or threatening manner to any person in the city or go][/size][size= es][/size][size= into any courthouse, church, school or any other public meeting carrying a deadly or dangerous weapon.][/size]




    [size=(b) For the purposes of this section, the term "deadly or dangerous weapon" ][/size][size=means any weapon other than a firearm, from which a shot, readily capable of producing death or serious physical injury, may be discharged, or a knife, dagger, billy, blackjack or metal knuckles][/size][size= .][/size]




    [size=(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to police officers and other officers or persons whose duty it is to execute process or warrants or to make arrests.][/size]




    [size=(d) The crime of brandishing a weapon is a class A misdemeanor.][/size]




    [size=(Code 1964, § 7.1170; Ord. No. 018042, § 1, 4-19-04)][/size]





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    Boy.....if ever there was a state where the McDonald v Chicago decision has relevance it is in NYS. This county by county law B.S. and the 6 month wait ( plus 4 references???) to own a handgun makes CA,MD, and IL look good by comparison.

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    homerfire232 wrote:
    I think you are incorrect about open carry on your own property, please see the following laws regarding;

    Section 16-246 Brandishing a weapon.



    [size= (a) A person commits the offense of brandishing a weapon when ][size= the person][size= exhibit][size= s][size= any deadly or dangerous weapon in a rude, angry or threatening manner to any person in the city or go][size= es][size= into any courthouse, church, school or any other public meeting carrying a deadly or dangerous weapon.]




    [size= (b) For the purposes of this section, the term "deadly or dangerous weapon"][size=means any weapon other than a firearm, from which a shot, readily capable of producing death or serious physical injury, may be discharged, or a knife, dagger, billy, blackjack or metal knuckles][size= .]




    [size= (c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to police officers and other officers or persons whose duty it is to execute process or warrants or to make arrests.]




    [size= (d) The crime of brandishing a weapon is a class A misdemeanor.]




    [size=(Code 1964, § 7.1170; Ord. No. 018042, § 1, 4-19-04)]



    Whats this got to do with anything? You simply cannot posess a handgun period in NYS without a permit.

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    Of course you need a permit in NY, but the laws regarding brandishing a weapon are specific, you cant be charged with anything for open carrying your pistol on your own property. I cook on the grill, mow the lawn and such while I carry openly and I live in the village and was approched by the police about it. All they said is it is not advised because it draws attention to yourself.

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    The OP asked about it without a permit, nothing about brandishing.



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    You can carry open on your own property 'not in ready public view' or 'in view from a public accessway'

    Basically, this means that if someone from a public area (street, sidewalk, trail) can see you, you are not in private.



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    Procedure to relocate: NYS does not honor your permit from any state. Plus you can not apply for a permit until you meet the 6 month requirement. Then depending on where you are going to live in NY will be the factor for the length of time it takes to get one. Forget NYC, never happen. Here in Suffolk county it takes between 3 and 6 months for approval. During that time you would have to have your guns sent from an FFLholderin your state to a FFL holder here in NY. Once approved you would have to get purchase documents from that issuing agency to the FFL that is holding your guns within NY state. Pain in the butt! But that would be the tact. As far as OC one of the other posters have it correct, it depends are where. Here in suffolk in your house or enclosed backyard you are OK, front yard is a question.

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    One Item I forgot. I did carry a gun and turned it in to the Police to hold when I got it back it was inscribed with my SS number. So the FFL dealer is the way to go. They will charge a fee for this service.

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    The problem is that you voluntarily surrendered it and they defaced the gun. Now, if you ever go to sell it to anyone, they will have your serial or the value of the gun is severely damaged.

    The cost for an FFL to hold or transfer your guns is minimal, but better than having them ruined by the police

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    Actually, Homerfire, if you look up NY Penal law section 400-2(f) it states that the NY Permit is a concealed carry permit. No matter what your permit says on the face or back, it's a concealed carry. This is not something that was made up. I actually do tons of legal lectures for prelicensing and use of force in NY State and I qualified everything I lecture on by going to three different attorneys in NY State and got their official opinions on it.

    If they wanted to push it, you could be charged with carrying against the terms of your permit, which would be concealed. It HAS happened in NY a few times that I have been made aware of. That is not good press to get, especially in NY



    ....and here I am on the opencarry site talking about concealed carry...sheesh.

    Sorry guys...it's NY State and that's what we have to work with right now......

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    Roch, thanks for the info...but I was wondering if there is a written law stating you can not open carry in NYS. I could not find one. I agree that NY is a tough state to deal with and push the envelope, I would never do anything to risk losing my permit. I guess open carrying on my lawn could be a reason to pull my permit. When I applied, I applied for a concealed carry permit, one of two in NYS, the other being a place of residence or business only. The permit doesnt state anywhere on it what type it is. It says "licence to carry handgun, no restrictions, conditions that apply are they can take it back anytime, and not allowed to carry in NYC without permission." I know there are unwritten "laws" but you could see where there can be confusion.

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    There is no law written that says NY is Concealed. There is, however, a law that says you cannot carry open...


    Look up NY CPL section 400-2(f)

    As stated in my last message, this is the statute that describes the types of permits. You have employment (carry ONLY while on a specific job), Premise (ONLY at an address listed on the document) etc, etc.....and then you have (f) where is lists concealed.

    As mentioned earlier, I went to numerous legal people who are familiar with this subject and asked them to point out IF New York State was concealed carry by mandate and where it was in the law books. Each and every one I talked to pointed to this statute.

    See BOLD below

    2. Types of licenses. A license for gunsmith or dealer in firearms shall be issued to engage in such business. A license for a pistol or revolver, other than an assault weapon or a disguised gun, shall be issued to (a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder; (b) have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper; (c) have and carry concealed while so employed by a messenger employed by a banking institution or express company; (d) have and carry concealed by a justice of the supreme court in the first or second judicial departments, or by a judge of the New York city civil court or the New York city criminal court; (e) have and carry concealed while so employed by a regular employee of an institution of the state, or of any county, city, town or village, under control of a commissioner of correction of the city or any warden, superintendent or head keeper of any state prison, penitentiary, workhouse, county jail or other institution for the detention of persons convicted or accused of crime or held as witnesses in criminal cases, provided that application is made therefor by such commissioner, warden, superintendent or head keeper; (f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof; and (g) have, possess, collect and carry antique pistols which are defined as follows: (i) any single shot, muzzle loading pistol with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or before 1898, which is not designed for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; and (ii) any replica of any pistol described in clause (i) hereof if such replica--


    I have since been able to qualify this with others in the know.

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    In NYS you have the reverse of many other states. In other places, permits/licenses may or may not be issued for ownership of handguns with concealed carry being a special issue. By default, you then have the opposite or "open carry" as you are not allowed to carry concealed. In NYS, the only provisions under the law are for concealed carry permits with or without restrictions. As the law only recognizes concealed carry, by default, you have no open carry. The caveat for this would be hunting which requires you to have your firearm in view. If you were in the woods with a pistol on your hip and were stopped by a police or game warden and had a valid hunting and pistol license, they wouldn't hassle you. What gets people in a bunch is that the pistol permit is issued at county level rather thanstate so you have discrepancies in requirements. Some judges are lax, some are not, some counties make you take a course for an unrestricted permit, some don't. If you are reported for "violation" of your permit, your local judge has free reign as to what they can do. As a hedge against being hassled in other counties as I have an unrestricted permit, I carry a copy of the letter from my judge granting me the unrestricted permit to show that he intended me to have it and I didn't "fall thru the cracks" because some police feel no one should have them.

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    You may be well advised to leave your handguns with someone in S.C. and apply for a Pistol License listing each of those pistols which you want to legally bring into NYS. When approved, you can bring them in. On the application, if I recall correctly, you are asked where the guns will be stored. The point is that they are expected to be stored *within NYS* under your control (and I think a good answer is simply "locked metal enclosure.) "I recommend getting this book and reading it carefully and literally:

    Firearms and Weapons Laws: Gun Control in New York
    ~ Lee O. Thomas (Author), Jeffrey Chamberlain (Author)

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    If you know someone that you trust and has a NY pistol permit make the proper arrangements and when the handguns get sent to an FFL here in NY have your friend transfer your handguns onto their permit until you receive yours because it will take awhile and you dont want any agencies stacking them up like a bunch of army rifles getting scratched and dings on them. If someone was settled in another state I can not understand why they would move here.

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    Danny-L wrote:
    If you know someone that you trust and has a NY pistol permit make the proper arrangements and when the handguns get sent to an FFL here in NY have your friend transfer your handguns onto their permit until you receive yours because it will take awhile and you dont want any agencies stacking them up like a bunch of army rifles getting scratched and dings on them. If someone was settled in another state I can not understand why they would move here.
    If you know a legal way to do this, please cite it here.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I have always kept my handguns registered onto my brothers pistol permit,it states myself as owner and my brother with pemission to hold or carry. Igot it through the issueing facility (county clerk,signed by the county judge) it is 100% legal for someone else to have your guns listed on their permit. I had an issue 3yrs ago a drinking&driving violation,no guns involved or with me the judge automatically suspended my permit for 6 months. If I hadnt had my brother listed they would have been held by the county until I made arrangements to have them placed elsewhere. If you send them to NY to an FFL he and your selected individual should be able to take care of the rest. Hope this helped

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    Danny-L wrote:
    I have always kept my handguns registered onto my brothers pistol permit,it states myself as owner and my brother with pemission to hold or carry. Igot it through the issueing facility (county clerk,signed by the county judge) it is 100% legal for someone else to have your guns listed on their permit. I had an issue 3yrs ago a drinking&driving violation,no guns involved or with me the judge automatically suspended my permit for 6 months. If I hadnt had my brother listed they would have been held by the county until I made arrangements to have them placed elsewhere. If you send them to NY to an FFL he and your selected individual should be able to take care of the rest. Hope this helped
    Still do not see how this conviction would effect your right/permission to own or possess guns. They are "registered" to you, so why could you not retain them and just not carry?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Through my lawyer I found out that a judge can suspend or revoke a nys pistol permit at any time for no reason,its not right but the way it is. Our judge,told to me by state troopers he is anti-gun and will exercise every right within his power to take them away. Since then I found out that at the time my permit was suspended if my wife or anyone else living with me had a permit with my pistols listed on them they would be able to remain in my house. Try to figure that one out is like trying to figure out why a county judge like this was elected into his position in the first place,considering the majority of northern new yorkers all have guns. With all said I didnt loose my drivers licence,figure that one too.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Danny-L wrote:
    I have always kept my handguns registered onto my brothers pistol permit,it states myself as owner and my brother with pemission to hold or carry. Igot it through the issueing facility (county clerk,signed by the county judge) it is 100% legal for someone else to have your guns listed on their permit. I had an issue 3yrs ago a drinking&driving violation,no guns involved or with me the judge automatically suspended my permit for 6 months. If I hadnt had my brother listed they would have been held by the county until I made arrangements to have them placed elsewhere. If you send them to NY to an FFL he and your selected individual should be able to take care of the rest. Hope this helped
    Still do not see how this conviction would effect your right/permission to own or possess guns. They are "registered" to you, so why could you not retain them and just not carry?

    Yata hey
    Because NY's permit isn't really a carry permit. Its more like a posession permit or ownership license. If you lose your permit its illegal to posess any handguns, even in your home.

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    Leverdude wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Danny-L wrote:
    I have always kept my handguns registered onto my brothers pistol permit,it states myself as owner and my brother with pemission to hold or carry. Igot it through the issueing facility (county clerk,signed by the county judge) it is 100% legal for someone else to have your guns listed on their permit. I had an issue 3yrs ago a drinking&driving violation,no guns involved or with me the judge automatically suspended my permit for 6 months. If I hadnt had my brother listed they would have been held by the county until I made arrangements to have them placed elsewhere. If you send them to NY to an FFL he and your selected individual should be able to take care of the rest. Hope this helped
    Still do not see how this conviction would effect your right/permission to own or possess guns. They are "registered" to you, so why could you not retain them and just not carry?

    Yata hey
    Because NY's permit isn't really a carry permit. Its more like a posession permit or ownership license. If you lose your permit its illegal to posess any handguns, even in your home.
    Appreciate the clarification. Another reason I don't like the NY gun laws.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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