• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

What do you say?

Liberal biased

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
12
Location
, ,
imported post

Honestly I don't have a problem with OC. Where practical. If you live in a town where its necessary to carry at Walmart, then either you must be a little paranoid or you live in a place most people wouldn't want to. And while I think there have been reasonable responses to these posts, I do not feel convinced I need to carry a firearm.

I just get the impression you are all just wanting to press an issue when you do not need to. The liberals I know do not have a pressing desire to repeal gun laws. Thats not to say there are those who would want too. I suppose because they may be acting on "us vs them" mentality. Or feel as many on this board - that would protect their family if there were no guns. Anyway, its as much their right to be against 2A as it is your right to be pro.

:banghead: As usual we all stereotype those and make assumptions about motivations and attitudes. I hope I'm not around when the OCer makes a mistake with their weapon.

Also, nice of Lurchiron to post the family reunion pic. :celebrate
 

Lurchiron

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
1,011
Location
Shawano,WI.
imported post

Liberal biased wrote:
Honestly I don't have a problem with OC. Where practical. If you live in a town where its necessary to carry at Walmart, then either you must be a little paranoid or you live in a place most people wouldn't want to. And while I think there have been reasonable responses to these posts, I do not feel convinced I need to carry a firearm.

I just get the impression you are all just wanting to press an issue when you do not need to. The liberals I know do not have a pressing desire to repeal gun laws. Thats not to say there are those who would want too. I suppose because they may be acting on "us vs them" mentality. Or feel as many on this board - that would protect their family if there were no guns. Anyway, its as much their right to be against 2A as it is your right to be pro.

:banghead: As usual we all stereotype those and make assumptions about motivations and attitudes. I hope I'm not around when the OCer makes a mistake with their weapon.

Also, nice of Lurchiron to post the family reunion pic. :celebrate
"Hey no problem; next time you can get the whole family to line up, let me know, I'd be happy to shoot them for posterity. Just so your dumb ass knows, I meant camera(shoot); not bang, bang(shoot)." :what:
 

Liberal biased

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
12
Location
, ,
imported post

Outside of occupational needs, if you're responsible enough to own a firearm, I would leave that up to you. Thats your right. I was hoping you could tell me.


Lunchiron, your cute and witty?
 

FarNorth

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
44
Location
Anchorage, Alaska, USA
imported post

For myself it's pretty much climate driven. Winter time I'm wearing a coat so I CC. SummerI usually don't wear a coat so it's OC. Pretty easy...

Except for places that weapons aren't allowed, then I don't carry at all. But then I usually don't visit places like that.
 

Lurchiron

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
1,011
Location
Shawano,WI.
imported post

Liberal biased wrote:
Outside of occupational needs, if you're responsible enough to own a firearm, I would leave that up to you. Thats your right. I was hoping you could tell me.


Lunchiron, your cute and witty?

Actually, no & I do OK.

Big and not prone to taking liberal bullshit, would bracket me somewhat better;

think Lindesfarne and you'd be close.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

Liberal biased wrote:
I have been confronted twice in my life by someone brandishing a gun. There was not a lot brain behind either one.
I have been personally attacked once with a weapon--a REALLY big knife. The person was obviously stupid, and on something. It was in an isolated area, jogging at night ( I worked a 2pm-midnight shift at the time, and liked to jog after work).

I didn't have time to dial 911, but I DID have a Colt 1911 Delta Elite in Stainless steel. I didn't have to fire, I just drew, and he dropped the knife and ran into the woods like a scared rabbit. I called the police, reported the assault, made a VERY accurate description (I'm a graphic designer and a photographer--I notice details VERY accurately) and waited for the Deputy to arrive and collect the knife.

Had I not had my Colt, I probably wouldn't have made it home that night...

That was over 10 years ago, in a state where I had a Concealed permit. I vowed at that time to ALWAYS be prepared for the unexpected...

Had I been Open Carrying, he probably never would have even approached me. It was BECAUSE I was CC that he saw me as a "soft target". Open Carry deters crime, because criminals are, generally lazy and cowardly. They don't want to have to work for their spoils,and so they don't mess with people who are obviously armed.

Open Carry has historically been the way that honest, law-abiding, honerable citizens went about their business--from the medieval times of carrying swords up to the early 20th Century.

Historically, Concealed Carry has been viewed with distrust. Prior to the 20th Century, the only people who carried their weapons concealed were criminals, spies, and assassins. Concealed Carry has historically been the purview of the scoundrel, specifically BECAUSE he was trying to hide his weapon so that he could surprise his victims. Honest, law-abiding citizens carried their firearms openly so everyone would know they were the "good guys".

The relatively recent trend (in the last 20 years) toward CC as a preferred mode of carry is historically perplexing. It takes a mode of carry that has historically been viewed as dishonorable and turned it into a "privilege" for the wealthy, the politically connected, and the "upper class". This came on the heels of decades of increasingly restrictive gun laws that ALL have their roots in disarming non-whites following the Civil War, and then increasing in restrictiveness in the 1940s and 1950s during the Civil Rights movement.

Keeping the poor, and blacks and hispanics disarmed has ALWAYS been the root motivation for ALL gun control laws in the USA. This is an historical fact. The growth of the "Concealed Carry Movement" in the 1980s and 1990's was not so much a reclaiming of citizen's gun rights, as it was a reinforcement of Jim Crow laws disarming the dispossessed and disenfranchised while allowing the "privileged classes" to maintain their arms. It allowed the "privileged" to carry for self-defense, while giving the "authorities" the flexibility to deny permits to "the wrong kinds of people", meaning the poor, and the minorities.

Open Carry is based on the Constitution, ancient English common law, and hundreds of years of international case law and social tradition.

It is a HUMAN RIGHT, not a privilege. Any citizen who is not otherwise "prohibited" to own a firearm may, in MOST states in the Union, carry openly. In fact there are only 8 states (and DC) that do not allow OC. Lawfull OC is, in fact the RULE, not the exception, nationwide. It's just that most don't practice it for fear of harassment by LEO's, or harassment by anti-gun hoplophobic citizens who have been programmed--through nearly a century of propaganda--that self defense is not an individual right and responsibility.

However, the Federal Courts have ruled in several cases (the most striking of which is Warren v. Washington DC) that law enforcement officers are under NO legal or statutory obligation to provide personal protection or safety for individuals. That leaves this responsibility SQUARELY in the hands of the individual.

Self Defense is a Human Right. Just like the right to worship as one sees fit, or the right to publish or speak one's own mind, or the right to assemble to address the government for redress of grievances.

How can you, as a self-professed "liberal" be against a fundamental human right, that exists outside the artificial construct of ANY governmental body?

How can you, as a "liberal", be FOR the government-sponsored restriction of a fundamental human right--the right to protect ones self against a grievous attack?

How can you, as a "liberal" justify the marginalization of the value of the lives of the less fortunate--the poor and minorities? Are you saying that the lives of some people (elected officials, movie stars, the wealthy) are somehow more valuable than the lives of an ordinary citizen?

Please, explain to me why you hate the concept of fundamental civil rights for ALL citizens?

Please tell us why you think blacks and hispanics and the poor shouldn't have the same assurance of personal safety just because they can't afford a personal bodyguard detail?

Please explain why you feel that minorities, and the poor should not be afforded "equal protection under the law", and should not be allowed to exercise their Human Rights as enumerated in our Constitution, just because of the color of their skin or the balance in their bank accounts?

Please enlighten us how you, as a "liberal" justify upholding (and even strengthening) classist and racist "Jim Crow" laws that were designed to circumvent the 13th Amendment and the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Please tell me, I'm curious.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

Liberal biased wrote:
Honestly I don't have a problem with OC. Where practical. If you live in a town where its necessary to carry at Walmart, then either you must be a little paranoid or you live in a place most people wouldn't want to. And while I think there have been reasonable responses to these posts, I do not feel convinced I need to carry a firearm.
Oh, so you somehow have some sort of prescient insight into the schedules and routines of criminals, sociopaths, and thugs, then do you?

Tell me, how did you come by this amazing skill?

I was under the impression that criminals and madmen generally don't publish their day-planner schedules on their FaceBook pages, but maybe I'm missing something...

Crime happens EVERYWHERE. It is a myth that violent crime only happens at night in the "bad parts of town". To assert that the only people who need to be concerned with self defense are people who live in "the bad parts of town" is dancing perilously close to racism.

And the fact that most gun control laws were enacted SPECIFICALLY to keep law-abiding people who were poor, or minorities (the very people who often populate these "bad parts of town" for which you show such disdain), from purchasing and possessing firearms for their own protection only adds insult to injury, and reveals some VERY unflattering insights into your own socio-political preconceptions and prejudices...

Home Invasion crimes are on the rise nationwide, and these generally take place in "upscale" neighborhoods, during the daytime, because 1) that is where the "good loot" is, and 2) the home owners are often thought to be out of the house at their jobs.

Car Jackings more often than not, take place in "nice neighborhoods" and the victims of this crime are often affluent suburbanites who are driving "upscale" imported luxury or sports cars.

EVERY single "mass shooting" in the last 20 years here in the USA occurred at a venue that was a designated "gun free zone"--high schools, colleges, shopping malls, cities with gun bans, government buildings, military bases, etc.

You never hear of a mass shooting at a gun range. You never hear of a mass shooting in a sporting goods store. You never hear of a mass shooting at the NRA headquarters in Fairfax VA (which is perhaps the most heavily-armed non-Law Enforcement/non-military office space on the planet) or a police convention or in New Hampshire. Why? Because there are a LOT of armed people at these sorts of venues, and the "bad guys" are lazy and cowardly--they want "easy pickings", and they don't want any sort of resistance or retaliation for their heinous deeds...

Please, tell us how you can predict where violent crime will occur. I'm sure we all would LOVE to have that skill, and I imagine the FBI might be interested in your skills as well...
 

Liberal biased

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
12
Location
, ,
imported post

Wow...ask a question, which none of you read, and get accused of offending the oppressed minorities. Judging by the last two responses, each of you should be assessed for your basic presumptuousness. That is you think you know it all in case you did not get it. But I have to say you each have your predisposed assumption about "liberals" that are way off. There is no liberal, homogenous group. No liberal would approach your issue like you are prone. Each of your responses seems as what you heard on the conservative news station. Makes you phony. Try going out and asking these "liberals" about any topic and you will not get a canned answer. You'll wonder if your even talking to a "liberal." What a joke.

I am not a liberal. I want answers to basic questions, and then make a decision or ask more questions. I don't care what the two fraud parties say. It comes from the elite top, red or blue, and they'd sell you out in a heartbeat. Am sure there are recent vets on this board. Did you get what you wanted out of GW? I know many who voted for OB. Not much different. New war just gonna start when the last one ends. More tours.

In the end I now hope they take away your OC rights. Just out of spite.

So Dreamer, your for rights of minorities? Liberal? Really? Where's your ACLU card? Gay marriage? Your a proponent? Oh and Shenanigans? You watch Southpark don't you?
Lunchiron, you have never spoken to a liberal or anyone who does not share your POV.

Next week no one will even know this website exists.
 

FarNorth

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
44
Location
Anchorage, Alaska, USA
imported post

Is this the question you're talking about?

"What do you do if things get impolite, and you actually have to make a decision whether to use the gun? Have any proponents on this board realistically approached whether or not you are prepared to become the criminal, simply because you are carrying?"

What exactly do you mean by "impolite"? Are you assuming I'm going to shoot someone for disrespecting my mother? Or do you mean "impolite" as in doing something that threatens the life of someone near me or myself? I don't consider my life being in danger as someone being "impolite" That would be life threatening and I would be well within my rights to defend myself as needed to stopt the threat.

You need to ask your question in a way that makes sense.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
imported post

Liberal biased wrote:
What do you do if things get impolite, and you actually have to make a decision whether to use the gun? Have any proponents on this board realistically approached whether or not you are prepared to become the criminal, simply because you are carrying?

Once again I reject false questions. If someone is impolite I simply become more polite than they are and smile and be kind and courteous. That has nothing to do with self defense or firearms. I reject your absurd notion.

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

Liberal biased wrote:
Each of your responses seems as what you heard on the conservative news station. Makes you phony. Try going out and asking these "liberals" about any topic and you will not get a canned answer. You'll wonder if your even talking to a "liberal." What a joke.
I read your question closely. You accused people who feel they have a right to self-defense anywhere of living in places that were dangerous. I was trying to make the point that crime happens EVERYWHERE, and it unpredictable. If you like I can give you links to GIS maps of crime distribution in major cities, or links to news stories all over the Mid-Atlantic region that prove this.

And actually, my wife is a FLAMING liberal on most issues (but she's not completely loony about it), so I know what a true liberal is all about. We have some very lively debates, and interestingly enough, we agree much more than we disagree.


But it appears you would rather attempt to accuse me of being some sort of political neanderthal than actually address any of my premises.

I'll have you know that I am a Graduate Student. I've held TS-level security clearances. I've designed computer networks for several corporations. I have tested in the 148-158 range on various IQ scores (Standford Binet, Weschler) and in the 99th percentile on the Miller Analogies Test. I have been a member of MENSA and I was an Eagle Scout. I graduated from my undergraduate institution (a private liberal arts college) with distinction.

I don't even know what channel Fox is on with my local cable provider...

If you ask around, I'm one of the most vocal opponents of the "left/right paradigm myth" on this forum. I am a registered "Libertarian".

So if you think you've got me "pegged" as some sort of "right wing neo-con" you are MILES off target. Jeffersonian Libertarian, maybe. Franklinian libertine, occasionally. But I hold the "neo cons" in the same contempt--and with the same level of abject distrust--as i do the "extreme left". The "two parties" are merely different sides of the same fat, rotten slice of baloney, IMO.

If you would just make one valid claim to support your position (rather than repeating emotional reactions, personal feelings, or unfounded conjecture) maybe folks would take you more seriously.

I know its much easier to flame people than to actually engage them in intellectual debate supported by actual facts and reliable citations. But please, if you're going to come here and jerk our chains, at least make a token attempt at legitimate intellectual discourse.

The "ad hominem" argument is the last resort of the scoundrel...



Liberal biased also wrote:
So Dreamer, your for rights of minorities? Liberal? Really? Where's your ACLU card? Gay marriage? Your a proponent?
This is a logical fallacy, bringing in issues that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, and you are just trying to dilute the discussion with confusing, divisive and obfuscatory issues while avoiding the REAL topic. Apparently your education did not include any courses in Discourse, Forensics, or Logic.

But I'll entertain you, even though I KNOW you won't actually read (much less comprehend) my little discourse, and even though I know playing into this is just serving your wish to dilute the discussion and divert people's attention away from the REAL topics to cover for your lack of substance or knowledge on the REAL topic.

The ACLU is a puppet of the "foundations" and the international banking cartels and has perhaps done more to destroy true civil liberties than the KKK, J. Edgar Hoover, and the Patriot Act combined. They have betrayed the very constituency they claim to protect through their support of "gun control", "urban" disarmament, and Jim Crow Firearms Laws, not to mention their campaigns to dumb down school performance standards, re-calibrating professional qualification tests, and supporting institutionalized lifelong welfare. They support illegal immigration (and therefore, the underground wage slavery of "undocumented workers"). The ACLU is a facade wrapped in a lie, bundled up with a ribbon woven from the betrayal of true liberty. They are definitely NOT on my "happy list".


And I don't see how my beliefs about ANY sorts of matrimonial contract law has any bearing on this discussion, unless we're talking about "shotgun weddings", which technically, are a biological impossibility between gay couples of any type. ;)

But I DO believe that there is a difference between "marriage" as a religious institution and "marriage" as a civil contractual construct. And I believe that those two VERY different institutions should not be confused, because they have NOTHING to do with each other.

I believe that religious organizations have the right to sanction coupling agreements as they see fit. I also recognize that such unions should have no legal standing. A religious ceremony should have no legal standing, REGARDLESS of the religion performing said ceremony. I don't care if someone is Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Wiccan, Santeria, or they worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Religious ceremonies should not hold Legal Standing. Period. For the State to give legal standing to religious "contracts" is treading dangerously close to violating the "establishment of religions clause" of the First Amendment.

If someone wants a legal contract (which I believe is what you were talking about), they should do it through some one qualified to do it like a lawyer or a magistrate.

I ALSO believe that ANY citizens who are legally competent and liable for their own actions has the right to enter into ANY sort of contractual obligation they wish, and if that contract is done in a legal manner, I believe the State (and I mean "State" in the broadest sense of the word) is OBLIGATED to recognize it, and treat all it's participants equally under the law. Period.

The "gay marriage" issue is just another "false flag" issue that the media has spun in a nonsensical and counter-intellectual manner to divide and conquer the American public, and to distract us from the REAL problems that are destroying our nation. It has NOTHING to do with religion. It has NOTHING to do with the "religious institution of marriage." It is a matter of Contract Law, because that is what the LEGAL INSTRUMENT of "marriage" really is, and folks need to be honest with themselves about that, and get over it.

People enter into contracts with gay folks all the time, and it hasn't hurt the business community one iota. There are gay lawyers, dentists, mechanics, broadcasters and teachers, and they abide by contracts all the time. But there is one sort of contract they can't enter into. And I just don't understand how that is any different than barring an African American or a Native American from entering into a specific kind of contract (which is how the law used to be, not too long ago!).


Ultimately, almost ALL laws of prohibition come down to civil rights issues. It is our DUTY as citizens to do everything we can to guarantee that liberty wins out against the creeping and inevitable agendas to legislate discrimination that are endemic to the sociopathic class that makes up the profession we call "politicians". Such laws should NEVER be tolerated by a free people, and are contrary to the fundamental principles of true justice and civil liberty.



Liberal biased also wrote:
Oh and Shenanigans? You watch Southpark don't you?
Yes I do. I also watch Iron Chef (American and Japanese, but I prefer the original Japanese version), The History Channel, and the occasional episode of NCIS, Bones, Top Gear, and Dr. Who. I fail to see what my entertainment choices have to do with anything we've discussed here. This is just another diversion tactic, and I think we ALL see through your ruse...

But actually I knew about "Shenanigans" about 20 years before South Park came out, because of some research I did on "Irish Gypsy" and "Carnie" cultures while I was an undergrad. Hey Rube!

But anyway, I feel that Trey Parker and Mat Stone are some of the most innovative satirists currently on TV. They are equal opportunity offenders, and for that I hold them in high esteem. They are one of the last bastions of true 1A liberty in the media.

But then again, it wouldn't surprise me that someone like you who hates the 2A would be uncomfortable with free exercise of the 1A as well.

Chip chip chip. There goes the Constitution.

What's next, are you going to suggest we all billet soldiers in our homes so we stay "in line", or that we allow warrantless searches of our homes, vehicles and persons to keep us all "safe" from the latest boogieman created by our own military-industrial complex?

Maybe you should join a forum for "freedom" that is based in North Korea or Iran. They don't let their citizens have guns, and they both ban South Park too--such an intellectual environment might be more in line with your sentiments...

Either do some research and post something that makes sense, or leave us alone. We're growing weary of your endless prattling.
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
imported post

Liberal biased wrote:
Honestly I don't have a problem with OC. Where practical. If you live in a town where its necessary to carry at Walmart, then either you must be a little paranoid or you live in a place most people wouldn't want to. And while I think there have been reasonable responses to these posts, I do not feel convinced I need to carry a firearm.
Most of us feel no need to convince you to carry a firearm. We just don't want you acting to deny us our right to carry ours.


I just get the impression you are all just wanting to press an issue when you do not need to. The liberals I know do not have a pressing desire to repeal gun laws. Thats not to say there are those who would want too. I suppose because they may be acting on "us vs them" mentality. Or feel as many on this board - that would protect their family if there were no guns. Anyway, its as much their right to be against 2A as it is your right to be pro.
That is a rather interesting conundrum. "They" have do have a right under the 1st Amendment to express opposition to the exercise of other constitutional rights such as the 2nd Amendment. Ironically, "they" often then use their 1A rights in an attempt to restrict or prohibit my 2A rights. "They" will also burn the flag, pee on crucifixes and do all sorts of obscene and obnoxious things calling it 1A protected freedom of expression. Yet, "they" will scream like little girls when I open carry my sidearm for personal, business, family defense as well as to openly exercise MY rights and then "they" dismiss any argument that I am exercising my right to freedom of expression under the first and right to carry under the second simultaneously by calling names, misrepresenting statistics in several cases blatantly lying and distorting facts and by using their 1A rights to petition the gov't to further restrict my rights.

In other words, "they" will often abuse the 1A mercilessly in an attempt to deny me my rights under the 2A. That is where we get into an us vs them issue.

:banghead: As usual we all stereotype those and make assumptions about motivations and attitudes. I hope I'm not around when the OCer makes a mistake with their weapon.
What if you are around when an agent of the government, say police officer, makes a mistake with their weapon? That actually happens much more often in public than having a law abiding citizen make such a mistake.
Are you worried about that?
Also, nice of Lurchiron to post the family reunion pic. :celebrate
 

protector84

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
624
Location
Arizona, U.S.
imported post

First, this forum is designed for people who support OC so if you don't support OC, most of us here would rather you hit the door as you are wasting our time. There are plenty of other gun forums where you can debate OC vs. CC or pro-gun vs. anti-gun. Since this forum is both pro-gun and pro-OC, it would make sense that debates should be taking place about sub topics within that sphere.

Second, the question of why someone would need a certain weapon in a certain place has been brought up. This question is outright appalling to me. Who are you to question someone else's rights to self-defense? These are not just Constitutional rights, they are inherent in nature. Imagine if felines had their own government and cats had to have a permit to keep their claws longer than a certain length and demonstrate specific need? It would be completely mad. It really doesn't make a difference why the person has a gun or ten guns on them. Maybe they are paranoid, maybe they have some lunatic after them, maybe they carry it due to their occupation, maybe they carry it to take responsibility for their own defense as well as their nearby family's defense, or maybe they carry just because they feel like it. That anyone would call into question someone else's private personal means of self-protection is a sign of poorly civilized behavior. This brings me to my third point.

Third, there is a reason so many people are upset that others carry weapons for self-protection. Deep down it is a form of envy. They also misunderstand what civilized and uncivilized behavior is like. Today's culture wants you to believe that being civilized is participating in the hive-mind structures that the culture has set up without questioning much of it and without taking control of one's own life much outside of using those systems. Examples of these systems are work, school, church, and government. When people think of uncivilized people, they tend to think of the unusual whether it be strangely-dressed people, those of bizarre religions, people who subscribe to certain sub-cultures that often don't conform to the main culture, among other things. The reality is that civilization is quite the opposite. A person may dress strange, believe in weird things, or belong to certain sub-cultures but that means that the person is taking a level of control over his or her life and destiny that is generally moreso than the general masses who follow what the majority is doing. Even if I disagree with the way they live their lives, they are taking a certain level of control over them that others aren't.

People who carry guns for self-protection are making a decision that they are going to control their life and destiny to the best of their ability within the sphere of self-protection. The hive-mind culture on the other hand tends to instead rely on external sources for self-protection such as watching the TV news to find the latest dangers and relying on police to help them. This is where the envy comes in although it is on a sub-conscious level. It doesn't matter whether the topic is guns, finances, religion, raising a family, etc. whenever someone lives their life depending mostly on others for their destiny vs. taking as much control as possible themselves, they resent those that do the opposite. It really comes down to being dependent or independent. This brings me to my fourth point.

Fourth, those who question others' means of self-protection often believe that there should be boundaries between who can carry what, when, and how. They mention how criminals shouldn't have guns, mentally ill people shouldn't have them, permits, training, and other obstacles need to be placed so that only those who really are "qualified" to own guns have them. This is why many of these people don't like those who open carry. When a person comes into a store with a handgun holstered, you don't really know who the person is or what his intentions are. You can generally make educated guesses based on body language and behavior but you can't know for sure until the non-event becomes an event if that is what occurs. So these people are afraid that the gun carrier may suddenly decide to shoot someone. This is where the above example comes into play.

An independent person who believes in taking control over his or her life and destiny will already be operating in a tactical manner over his or her own safety. That person will probably be carrying a tool of self-defense himself or if not at least making logical observations on the gun carrier's behavior while determining any response based on logical reasoning of the situation at hand. The dependent person will have fear and panic come over them because they don't know how to think for themselves for what is best for them without some form of outside help. Since this person hasn't taken the time to take control over his safety, he probably won't have even so much as pepper spray on him, and would not consider any type of disarming moves or physical fighting tactics if the gun carrier turned out to be dangerous. Helpless, scared, and rather stupid, he will probably either leave as quickly as possible, get a store employee and voice his concern over the other person's weapon, or even call the police about it. Notice how the independent person will mainly rely on logic and reasoning whereas the dependent person will rely on emotions and reactions.

Fifth, there is an old saying "Gun control isn't about guns, it is about control." That is precisely it. Because the person fails to take control over his own safety and well being, he wants to take control away from others who are currently being self-reliant. I don't think there is much of a better way of putting it. They want everyone else as scared, helpless, and stupid as they are.

Sixth, someone mentioned about needing a gun in rural areas where animals run. The main reason I carry a handgun is for protection from dangerous animals--the two-legged kind--which urban areas are full of. Enough said.
 

Liberal biased

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
12
Location
, ,
imported post

Dreamer, thanks for taking the time state your positions. I agree with most of what you say. As I have tried to state - I responded to a prior post which used the term impolite. I support the 2A for the practical reason that the government is not really acting in our best interests. The 2 parties are in perpetual control. Without it we would not know the freedoms we have. You should all understand that a person who does not own firearms has no real understanding of many of these issues, other than what may be the filtered message of the media.

GLTA
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
imported post

If you, or really anyone else is concernerd about someone else carrying a gun, then the best and easiestthing you can possibly do about it, is to assert your second amendment rights, and carry a gun yourself. That way, if some OCer CCer or criminal decides to start shooting, then you can defend yourself
 

Theguy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
58
Location
Randolph County, Alabama, USA
imported post

for most people I give the sincere and articulate response (for defense, etc) for antis I have a conversation planned out like this:

Anti *with a contemptuous sneer* "well, why do YOU need a gun?!

Me "well, because I'm a pacifist"

Anti: *bewilderment*

Me" would you start a fight with me?

Anti "no"

Me: there, you see? I'm a force for peace *smug smile and walk away*
 

TJ347

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
17
Location
, ,
imported post

Big Dawg wrote:
I don't have to worry about being asked as no one knows I carry asI carry concealed with an IWB holster.

If one employs concealed carry for fear of being questioned by the average Joe if they instead open carried, whatare the chances they'd suddenly have the testicular fortitude to draw their weapon and use it effectively in the appropriate situation?

"I coulda shot the BG, but I didn't want him to be mad at me or scare other patrons of the Stop 'N Rob cuz I didn't tell 'em I was carrying a hidden gun..." Whenone clearly states cowardice as their reason for not employing open carry, any use of their firearm in a clutch situationis bound toend in a catastrophe one way or the other.
 
Top