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Thread: I got to educate a Deputy....

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    Ran into one of our local sheriffs deputies last night andhad a friendly chit chat. He turned out to be very pro-2A and not at all concerned with OC. We talked guns and stuff quite a bit.

    Anyway, during the course of ourconversation itwas revealed that he didn't know that a HCP was required for OC in TN. I wassurprised that he didn't know this. I corrected him by telling him that of the 27 states where OC was legal without a permit, TN wasn't one of them, unfortunately.

    This surprised me because he had told me earlier that he had been a statewide certified LEO for about 6 years before joining the sheriffs department here. Much of his time in LE had been in narc enforement.

    Due to reading so many times of others having to educate LEO about OC being legal in other localities I thought this was a funny twist that a LEO would think OC was legal here, without a permit, when it wasn't.

    This is in no way intended as a LEO bashing, I just thought it was rather funny. I've always had friendly incounters, so far, with the members of our sheriffs department.

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    Unloaded open carry is legal in Tennessee.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Unloaded open carry is legal in Tennessee.
    Presume you mean w/o a permit.

    Do you have a cite?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

    if the possession or carrying was:

    (1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;





    In Tennessee unloaded means no rounds in the firearm, on the person, or in the vicinity see TCA 39-17-1301.

    (18) “Unloaded” means the rifle, shotgun or handgun does not have ammunition in the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine, and no clip or magazine is in the immediate vicinity of the weapon.



    As always it will depend upon the ordinances of the city or municipality where one wishes to carry.



    For grapeshot. It would be a rare coincidence that someone else had consecutive # model 65 3" smith and wesson revolvers that had been bead blasted along with the "armed" shirt.



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    So with "the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;" you are left with fancy paper weight.

    What then is the value of ULOC in Tennessee from a slef-defense point of view?

    Re: Mod. 65 3" consecutive serial #s - afraid that my vision is not so acute as to be able to read either the serial numbers or the inscription on the inside of the wedding ring.

    I think the request was for a family style photograph - but is pointless now - too much time has past. Hardly important anyhow.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I just claimed open carry is legal in Tennessee w/o a permit.

    State law according TCA 39-17-1314 allows cities and municipalities to regulate firearms beofre April 8, 1986. Which means that any city could allow whatever the city allowed as long as the law was in effect before April 8, 1986. For example, a city close to me allows (according to their ordinance) the open carry in the hand of the old army and navy black powder pistols. It would be wise to have a permit, because you never know if there are any schools around.





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    Grapeshot wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    Unloaded open carry is legal in Tennessee.
    Presume you mean w/o a permit.

    Do you have a cite?

    Yata hey
    Grapeshot,

    It is not legal to OC a loaded handgun in TN, unless you are on your own property or property under your control.

    When I was chatting with the deputy, we got off on OC and he asked me, "You got your permit?" I said, "Sure I do, I couldn't carry this thing, legally,if I didn't." That's when he said he didn't think we needed a permit to carry a handgun legally. So that's why I said I got to educate a SD. Now he knows better.

    Any time I type "OC" I'm referring to laoded OC. If i'm talking about unloaded OC, I'll type "UOC." There ain't know way I'd carry an unloaded handgun on my hip. Might as well be carrying a brick.

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    When we talk about carry (OC or CC) aren't we generally talking about the handgun being loaded unless we specifically mention it being unloaded for some reason?

    IMO a post mentioning unloaded OC is legal is a bit off topic and irrelevant in that why would anyone carry an unloaded handgun in general? Perhaps in some areas as a protest or when caught in a off-limits area and not wanting to leave the gun unattended. But even then it is not "legal" it is simply a defense to the violation of the law. Sort of like being found "not-guilty" is not the same as being "innocent"

    Mentioning unloaded carry in this thread just seems like someone looking for attention and/or just trying to derail the orginal topic....and it seems like it may be working.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    kwikrnu wrote:
    39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

    if the possession or carrying was:

    (1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;


    In Tennessee unloaded means no rounds in the firearm, on the person, or in the vicinity see TCA 39-17-1301.

    (18) “Unloaded” means the rifle, shotgun or handgun does not have ammunition in the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine, and no clip or magazine is in the immediate vicinity of the weapon.


    As always it will depend upon the ordinances of the city or municipality where one wishes to carry.


    For grapeshot. It would be a rare coincidence that someone else had consecutive # model 65 3" smith and wesson revolvers that had been bead blasted along with the "armed" shirt.

    This is a case where you would be wise to bring a knife to a gun fight. A good sharp knife is much more effective than a gun without available ammuntion.

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    Fallguy wrote:
    When we talk about carry (OC or CC) aren't we generally talking about the handgun being loaded unless we specifically mention it being unloaded for some reason?

    IMO a post mentioning unloaded OC is legal is a bit off topic and irrelevant in that why would anyone carry an unloaded handgun in general? Perhaps in some areas as a protest or when caught in a off-limits area and not wanting to leave the gun unattended. But even then it is not "legal" it is simply a defense to the violation of the law. Sort of like being found "not-guilty" is not the same as being "innocent"

    Mentioning unloaded carry in this thread just seems like someone looking for attention and/or just trying to derail the orginal topic....and it seems like it may be working.
    the statement put forth was that open carry is legal in tennessee w/o a permit. i agree with the cop that open carry is legal in tennessee. in fact there are many places where loaded open carry w/o a permit is legal, not including hunting.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Fallguy wrote:
    When we talk about carry (OC or CC) aren't we generally talking about the handgun being loaded unless we specifically mention it being unloaded for some reason?

    IMO a post mentioning unloaded OC is legal is a bit off topic and irrelevant in that why would anyone carry an unloaded handgun in general? Perhaps in some areas as a protest or when caught in a off-limits area and not wanting to leave the gun unattended. But even then it is not "legal" it is simply a defense to the violation of the law. Sort of like being found "not-guilty" is not the same as being "innocent"

    Mentioning unloaded carry in this thread just seems like someone looking for attention and/or just trying to derail the orginal topic....and it seems like it may be working.
    the statement put forth was that open carry is legal in tennessee w/o a permit. i agree with the cop that open carry is legal in tennessee. in fact there are many places where loaded open carry w/o a permit is legal, not including hunting.
    Name one municipality in Tennessee where you can carry a loaded OC handgun in public without a permit.

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    Belle Meade, Tennessee.

    Preemption exception TCA 39-17-1314.

    "except the army or navy pistol carried openly in the hand" City ordinance title 11 chapter 6 part 602.



    There are others.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Belle Meade, Tennessee.

    Preemption exception TCA 39-17-1314.

    "except the army or navy pistol carried openly in the hand" City ordinance title 11 chapter 6 part 602.



    There are others.
    Preemtion exception doees not apply in regards to local ordinances that are LESS restrictive than the State laws.

    Did the police not ask to see your HCP when they stopped you, while carrying your Army black powder pistol "in hand"?

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Preemtion exception doees not apply in regards to local ordinances that are LESS restrictive than the State laws.

    Did the police not ask to see your HCP when they stopped you, while carrying your Army black powder pistol "in hand"?
    Where does it state that the locallawcannot be less restrictive? The law specifically states "any ordinance or resolution". If for example the Federal Government had a law which stated that the carry of firearms in the hand was illegal then the Federal law would preempt the local law. However, there is no Federal law against open carry in the hand and the State Legislature has made an exception for all local gun laws in effect before April 8, 1986. In fact the Legislature less than a year ago ammended this section and did not change the preemption exception.

    TCA 39-17-1314(a)

    Except as provided in § 39-17-1311(d), which allows counties and municipalities to prohibit the possession of handguns while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof, no city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof; provided, that this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.





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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Preemtion exception doees not apply in regards to local ordinances that are LESS restrictive than the State laws.

    Did the police not ask to see your HCP when they stopped you, while carrying your Army black powder pistol "in hand"?
    Where does it state that the locallawcannot be less restrictive? The law specifically states "any ordinance or resolution". If for example the Federal Government had a law which stated that the carry of firearms in the hand was illegal then the Federal law would preempt the local law. However, there is no Federal law against open carry in the hand and the State Legislature has made an exception for all local gun laws in effect before April 8, 1986. In fact the Legislature less than a year ago ammended this section and did not change the preemption exception.

    TCA 39-17-1314(a)

    Except as provided in § 39-17-1311(d), which allows counties and municipalities to prohibit the possession of handguns while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof, no city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof; provided, that this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.



    You didn't answer my question.

    Were you or were you not asked if you had a HCP when you were stopped by BMPD?

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    Task Force 16 wrote:

    You didn't answer my question.

    Were you or were you not asked if you had a HCP when you were stopped by BMPD?
    I'm sorry did you acknowlege I was correct?

    I was asked for my permit and it was removed from my pocket. It only goes to show the cops have no idea what is and is not legal.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:

    You didn't answer my question.

    Were you or were you not asked if you had a HCP when you were stopped by BMPD?
    I'm sorry did you acknowlege I was correct?

    I was asked for my permit and it was removed from my pocket. It only goes to show the cops have no idea what is and is not legal.
    No, I'm not acknowledging you to be correct.

    So, they asked you if you had a permit. Did you tell them you didn't need one, persuint to BM city ordinance??

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    until you understand 39-17-1314 there is nothing to talk about.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    until you understand 39-17-1314 there is nothing to talk about.
    Did you or did you not tell the BMPD that you didn't need a HCP to carry as you did in Belle Meade, pursuint to BM ordinance?

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