Blogspot for information on CPL age reduction project

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DEROS72 wrote:

I have mixed feelings about that.I have met in my years incuding myself, kids not responsible enough to be carrying.I have seen to many that think a weapon is used if someone calls your girlfriend a whore or insults your family or calls you names.Some of these kids like the ones Iv'e seen around here on a couple of occasions pull a gun if you insult there hat.If an eighteen year old feels the need and wants to pretend he's a bad ass then join the Corp.or Army.Get some training.Yes I know at eighteen the military gives eighteen year olds all sorts of weapons.I carried an M-60 in Nam at 18.But honestly back then I don't think I was mature enough to be carrying everyday.To many of the kids try to pretend they are a big shot or tough in some way because they carry and they are not.When I was growing up in Texas in the early 60's you could get a drivers license at 14.That was a disaster.They finally raised it to 16.I just have mixed feelings about some punk ass wet behind the ears kid wanting to strap on a weapon thinking that makes him the man.No training or anything.It's just one I would have to think about..

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I'm under the opinion that if you want a CPL at 18, you should be required to take some sort of gun safety course. At 21 though, the way it works is fine with me. Because I do agree with you, but not as strongly if that makes sense.

But yeah, you wanna carry a weapon everyday, join the Army or Marine Corps. It'll fix the itch.

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killchain wrote:

But yeah, you wanna carry a weapon everyday, join the Army or Marine Corps. It'll fix the itch.

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Our boys at FT. Hood weren't armed.

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I realize that and that was wrong.Active duty military should be carrying .We are like the only military in the world youdoesn't it's soldiers bearmed at all times...Like I said I'm still mulling this one over.







for example here is a picture of some Isreali women soldiers shopping at the PX They get in trouble if they get caught without their weapons.Note magazines in pockets.

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I have attached the flyer to the first post. Check it out, print it out, hand it out!!!
Also, any feedback on it would be appreciated.

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

killchain wrote:

But yeah, you wanna carry a weapon everyday, join the Army or Marine Corps. It'll fix the itch.

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Our boys at FT. Hood weren't armed.

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Yeah. You're right.

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Jumping off of the comment about a firearms safety course. How about we make it age 18, since they are adults whether anyone disagrees or not and then just require firearms safety/legality aspects of carrying/shooting for everyone? We'd probably get more states to recognize our cpl permit. And it'd be beneficial for those that have decided to get a gun but haven't had enough experience yet...which is probably why other states require it. Talking about all the legality aspects helps to put carrying in a different light for those of questionable maturity levels too...regardless of age.

EDIT: guess we'd shoot ourselves in the foot with the age 18 part even if we gained on the carry class

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Ok...thinking about this more...and not having read the proposed bill text yet, I'm posing this question to poosharker. What will the affect of changing the cpl age to 18 have to reciprocity issues? Will we lose most of the other states that have their age requirement at 21? I know that's at least part of the reason for not having reciprocity with Idaho.

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If the age of that state is 21 you would still be breaking the law and not allowed to carry there. Do we let 14 year olds drive from states that have that as the age? Just my thought on it.

I also had posted and wrote a letter to state senator for a bill to make us a shall accept state. As far as Concealed permits go. Of course I feel that anyway carrying from another state should and would have to follow all our other applicable state laws.

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Good point...but the age discrepancy makes it so we don't have reciprocity at all, correct? So if we changed our law to age 18...every other state that was a 21+ state would deny us reciprocity, or they likely would. So we'd have to get their permit as well, whether or not we were over 21.

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On the issue of requiring training for the 18 - 20 set, requiring training for cpl's is something we've had to fight against in the past. Giving it to them for young adults gets their foot in the door of requiring it for everyone. I'm all for training, but not as a hoop you have to jump through before protecting your life. Most people get all the training they need from practice and learning from one another, no paperwork required.

On reciprocity, I haven't found a site with the detailed info I need yet. It will affect reciprocity with states that have laws written just like Washington's, i.e. not recognizing permits from states that issue to people under 21. Having a two-tiered license system wouldn't help in that case because we'd still be a state that issues to people under 21. If I remember right when reciprocity was enacted wegained something like 11 states. I'll have to go through the ccw laws of every state we have reciprocity with to know for sure, but likely we'd lose a few. But even if we lost them all I'd still be in favor of this, because the lives and safetyof people here at home should be our bigger priority. There's a gun free zone following Poosharker and everone his age around, and everyone knows it, especially the gangbangers. It's like saying that Texas should cut off their young adults' right of protection just so they can have reciprocity with us. Why on Earth would they consider that? It's working fine for them and every other state that has 18yo carry.

Also don't forget there's peoplewho feelthat anyone who feels the need to flaunt their weapon openly shouldn't be carrying either. Doesn't matter what anyone feels though , everyone has a right to protect their life, and everyone's right to do so shouldbe respected.

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I don't think there is any one answer, but I don't think a one-day class on the legalities of when it's ok and not ok to present your weapon, as well as making sure that the person is competent in using the gun (i.e. - they're not covering everyone on the range, they actually take their finger off the trigger after they're done shooting, etc) is that much to ask. And obviously there should be some exceptions, such as a stalking victim getting the right to carry immediately with the caveat that she/he get training within six months or a year. However, I'm on the fence about it. I just think that it'd be a lot easier getting a national reciprocity law if that was the way it is. Plus, a lot of people don't grow up around guns anymore like they used to and need the education. A hundred years ago, training would have been silly because people knew how to shoot long before they were 18.


As far as the states who honor our permit now, it looks like (according to handgunlaws.us) all of the states require permit holders to be 21 or older. Meaning we'd probably have no reciprocity. Although we might pick up Idaho, Texas, and the like.

And as far as worrying about our state's residents first. I'm on the fence there too. I think that everyone should have the right to protect themselves. And I'm probably going to support the laws that protect the greatest amount of people. I could care less if you were from Idaho, New York, Florida, California, or our home state.

That said, if there were some way to get around losing all of our reciprocity with the nine other states (http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=7772) that we have it with, then I'd be all for this cpl at 18 bill. I am just 24 after all. I know how you guys feel. I just don't want to shoot the people that are aged tens of age groups in the foot just to protect those in three.

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I might be oversimplifying, but I know that gov. don't think the same way. Does one state have to let a driver drive in that state if they are not that state's legal age?

For example Hawaii used to be 15 not sure if it still is, can they drive at 15 in Washington. Or does Washington only recognize the legality of that person driving in our state when they reach 16 since that is our age of licensed driving? I'm going to see if I can google this. But my google fu isn't very strong.

Found this on wikipedia:

In the United States, the issuance of licenses is the authority of individual states (including Washington, D.C. and all territories). Drivers are normally required to obtain a license from their state of residence, and all states recognize each other's licenses for temporary visitors subject to normal age requirements. A state may also suspend an individual's driving privilege within its borders for traffic violations. Many states share a common system of license classes, with some exceptions, and commercial license classes are standardized by the federal law of 49 CFR part 383.

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Since I'm a google fanatic (I'm a scientist), I had to google it for myself. Here's what I came up with.

SVG: Does one state have to let a driver drive in that state if they are not that state's legal age?

According to the WDOL, teens from out of state have to follow WA state law. Here's the excerpt from http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/teens.html.

"If I have a license from another state, do the special rules of an intermediate license apply to me? Yes. A teen with a valid out-of-state license must get an intermediate license and meet all the same requirements."


And as far as Hawaii goes, it looks like you have to be 15.5yo for a permit and 17 for full privileges. So, probably if you had full privileges in HI, you'd still have limits in WA until you turned 18.

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Hawaii changed its age then. South Dakota is 14 and 3 months. I couldn't open your link but the wikipedia article mentioned within the age restrictions. So I don't think our state would let a South Dakota driver who was 14 drive on our roads.

Another link I looked at stated, federally you have to be 16 to drive in other states but there was no cite of source for that.

I think it should work the same way for CPL. We should currently recognize Texas CPL, as long as they are 21, but of course I have too much common sense.

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Just wanted to give you some props, Sharker! Good job.

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Thanks Kito, I updated the flier to specify "HB 3082".