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Thread: When it all goes wrong, your caught unaware and unarmed

  1. #1
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    I know this thread is for tales of self defense. This particular is of a an unarmed, early 20's man who was recently killed about 30 miles from my home. The thing that really hit me about it, was that I travel for a living, and stop at gas stations alot. Am I ready for what happened to this young man? No, I don't sleep in my car, but read the story and ask yourself if you are.

    http://www.lcsun-news.com/dona_ana_n...405?source=rss

    Details of Anthony murder revealedBy Ashley Meeks Sun-News reporterPosted:01/22/2010 12:00:00 AM MST
    var requestedWidth = 0; Click photo to enlarge - The charred remains of a 2000 Mitsubishi. Empty but for the body in its trunk, the Mitsubishi was doused with $2 of gas from a plastic jug, gas pedal weighted, lighter touched to the back seat and drive engaged to crash it into the arroyo below the ridge.
    Irvin Ramirez, 15, chased it down and glanced inside.
    "They're not going to find anything," he told Jorge Murillo, 18, and Javier Orozco, 16, according to an affidavit arrest warrant to be filed today in Las Cruces magistrate court.
    Ramirez was wrong.

    The three Anthony, N.M., teenagers, each facing a charge of first-degree murder, tampering with evidence and receiving stolen property, remain incarcerated at Doña Ana County detention facilities.

    They were arrested Monday, the same day 20-year-old Adam Espinoza was laid to rest.

    The San Antonio student, musician and writer had loaded his car, nicknamed "Lynda," with his small plasma TV, his Playstation 3, his Alienware laptop computer and his alto and soprano saxophones. He put his clothing in plastic bags. And he left his home the afternoon of Jan. 4, headed to Oceanside, Calif., just outside of San Diego, to move in with his older sister and her family. The former Baylor law student had plans to finish school and had already lined up a job at Macy's.

    He called his mother at 9:50 p.m., his sister a half hour later, telling them both he was about 50 miles east of El Paso and that he planned to stop for the night at the first rest stop in New Mexico. At 10:42 p.m., Espinoza used his
    bank card at a Fast Track gas station in Fabens, Texas.

    Surveillance video showed him paying at the pump and going inside, for a soda. He was alone.The Anthony Welcome Center, just over the Texas border, didn't have a regular security patrol, something the Las Cruces District Attorney's Office said has changed in the last week. The rest stop advertises free wireless Internet, making it a popular place for travelers who want to check their e-mail or use their laptops.

    Espinoza, 10 hours' driving down, 12 more to go in the morning, just wanted to get some sleep.

    The three teenagers - two in the dark, near the picnic tables; one in the car, facing the exit in case they needed to make a quick getaway - had been waiting for a half hour, with the express plans to "jack" the first person they saw, Orozco told police Monday.

    The bronze Mitsubishi was the first car that pulled in.
    After watching it for a while, Ramirez told Orozco to check if the person inside was asleep and to whistle if he was. Orozco checked. Espinoza was asleep. He tapped on Espinoza's window to ask for a cigarette, Murillo told police.
    When Espinoza rolled down the window, Ramirez walked up with the .22-caliber pistol-grip rifle.

    "Brace yourself," Ramirez said. "Give me all your money."
    Espinoza said he didn't have any money and if they wanted to rob him, "you're going to have to shoot me," Orozco said.
    Ramirez did so - once in the head and three times in the body, court documents state.

    The whole confrontation took just 20 or 30 seconds, Murillo said.
    Ramirez's shirt was spattered in blood. Orozco's hands were bloody. He was carrying a BlackBerry and $10 in cash.
    Murillo and Ramirez took Espinoza's car, unloading Espinoza's belongings at Orozco's house. A squeamish Orozco drove Murillo's 1993 green Toyota Camaro. They filled a plastic jug with $2 of gas at a 7/11 Fina gas station and drove to the dirt road off N.M. 404.

    The three divvied up Espinoza's belongings and the weapon. The BlackBerry was given to a friend, Robert Lascano, who checked it by calling it from an Anthony, Texas, number he shared with his girlfriend and registered to her mother. The couple had visited Orozco the afternoon of Jan. 5 and asked him about what they thought were Christmas presents - a Playstation 3, a number of games, a small plasma TV, a BlackBerry phone and several plastic bags of clothes.

    Orozco said they weren't presents and that he needed to pawn all the items, fast, for cash, according to court documents.
    When Espinoza didn't arrive that day, his sister left California and his mother left Texas, to retrace his route. They checked every rest stop along the way before meeting up in Deming and filing a missing person report with New Mexico State Police on Jan. 6.

    Lascano kept the BlackBerry for just a few days, selling it for $120 on the street because he "felt uncomfortable ... because he kept receiving text messages from Adam Espinoza's family." New Mexico State Police have since charged him with tampering with evidence and receiving stolen property.

    Espinoza's body was found Jan. 10 in the trunk of his burned 2000 Mitsubishi Galant, off a dirt road south of N.M. 404, about three miles east of the rest stop. He had been shot in the head, chest and right shoulder, a Jan. 12 autopsy found, and his throat contained no soot. He had died before the car was set on fire.
    The Las Cruces District Attorney's office is preparing to present the case against the three alleged gang members to a grand jury, said prosecutor James Dickens.

    An adult conviction on first-degree murder would result in life in prison, without parole, while the maximum sentence for a juvenile is prison until age 21.

    "We're going to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law," Dickens said, adding, "It's just shocking how random this murder is, just how absolutely frightening."


  2. #2
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    I don't know about NM law, but that is why I hate driving through states that require me to lock my gun in the trunk or anywhere out of reach. Assuming I ever stop to rest at a highway rest stop I want to be armed.

    In this case (or any case) it wouldn't guarantee a positive outcome but at least he would have had a fighting chance. They could have fled seeing a gun, he could have shot one or more of them, etc. At least they caught the bastards. To bad they can't fry at their young impressionable age!

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    "To bad they can't fry at their young impressionable age! "

    If they had any balls they'd order it done anyway, if the SC Court rules against justice a second time, they can do it again and again until the pro-criminal scumbags get the message. The Supreme Court can't actually say "this cannon be done," all judicial review lets them do is strike down laws; NM just has to pass a law saying that minors can be executed, and keep passing it every time it gets struck down.


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    In some states all threemight have been tried as adults and potentially given them all life sentences. Particularly in capital crimes like this.

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    Anthony, NM...sounds like low-life gangster punks, much like "Espancholo" as it's called (actually, Espanola, NM) -- it's pretty much gangland there. Those small towns in that area extreme SW corner of NM (Anapra, Sunland Park, Santa Teresa, Anthony) are mostly trash-strewn, run down low-rent mostly Spanish-speaking areas that look more lke some hole in Mexico than America (but that's how it is so close to the Border -- El Paso is like Mexico, too, but it's justbigger).

    I agree, however, that no matter how old you are, you doa violentcrime like this youshould get executed. Quickly. Even if you're "mental" you get executed.

    But these punks -- even the one who pulled the trigger -- will be out when they are 21 and have the rest of their lives to do this to someone else down the road.

    Again, it seems that the only justice punks like this will ever get is from the gun of an armed citizen. Let's try to do our civic duty when the opportunity presents itself, not only for the good of society, but also for the children. ;-)

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    I agree, execute them; but first, let the family of the victim loose on the gang bangers. What I find funny is how when caught they tell all they know to keep themselves from getting into trouble.They will sell out their "friends" or peeps.

    some good reasons to execute:

    1. save tax payer's $.

    2. save another victim.

    3. because it's just the right thing to do.


    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Packer fan wrote:
    I agree, execute them; but first, let the family of the victim loose on the gang bangers. What I find funny is how when caught they tell all they know to keep themselves from getting into trouble.They will sell out their "friends" or peeps.

    some good reasons to execute:

    1. save tax payer's $.

    2. save another victim.

    3. because it's just the right thing to do.


    i suggestletting the family of the victim execute them,if they are willing,execution by firearm.

    gives them what they feel is even more closure

    and it saves even more money,not having to pay a LEO to do it.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  8. #8
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    NM law says open carry in the car, doesn't have to locked or concealed. It's treated like your home. NM is a fairly OC friendly state. Too bad for this young man to make critical errors in where he slept, being unarmed, and unaware....could have been prevented in so many ways.

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    this is the only part that scares me when traveling on my motorcycle. we'll often stop at rest stops and gas stations for quick refreshers, bathroom breaks or just for a smoke. and depending how far we are riding, we'll do alot of the riding at night, so those breaks are anytime of the night. occasionally we'll even lay on the bikes and sleep for a few minutes.


    that is pretty scarry, and very sad. because there really aren't any alternatives. either you stay a victim, or you end up potentially carrying illegally.

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    One thing nobody wants to talk about is who seems to be committing most of the crimes. It appears that at least 90% of the time I hear or read an article about a violent crime, the names are always Hispanic. This seems to be the case whether it is in Arizona, Iowa, or even New York. In fact almost 100% of the 911 calls I've placed due to a felony in progress has been with regards to Hispanic suspects. Almost 100% of the time I've been a victim of crime, it was by Hispanics. I have a few friends who are Hispanic and they have also been victims of crimes by other Hispanics. Before someone yells "racist" as a knee-jerk reaction, something needs to be looked at here in an intelligent and non-emotional manner. There are a lot of Hispanics in this country and most of them are not criminals. However, they are statistically over-represented among the prisons in many states. Either there is a poverty problem or an illegal immigration problem or a cultural problem that is not being addressed. The media and the government are obviously afraid to over cries of "racism." Regardless, I simply can't deny that almost every time I pick up a newspaper and read about murder suspects they are usually Hispanics and I can't deny that almost every time I, my family, or my friends have been victimized by crime, it is them. I certainly support diversity and cultural understandings but this is an issue that nobody seems to want to address yet someone somewhere needs to come out and start looking into this.



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    protector84 wrote:
    One thing nobody wants to talk about is who seems to be committing most of the crimes.
    The mainstream press doesn't want to talk about it because it's not politically correct.

    On OCDO we don't talk about it because it's irrelevant. The right to self-defense is the same regardless of the attacker's ethnicity.



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    cloudcroft wrote:
    protector84,

    I agree with you...but most people don't want even to mention color, thinking they "take the high road" that way. That just helps the guilty continue flying under the radar as they try to keep a low profile, aided and abeted by naive, stupid or apologetic people, gun owners or not. But really,they're just in denial or too timid to state the facts. Here in the Houston area,it's mostly black faces seen on the TV being sought for this crime or that. Some ofthem might be Katrina trash from New Orleans (what a hole that place continues to be) still here after all this time but most is probably home-grown trash.

    Right now, here in Galveston, there is a LOT of controversy re: rebuilding public housing destroyed by Hurricane Ike)...guess who want it rebuilt and who doesn't? I'm one who doesn't because I don't want the trash, drugs and crime -- regardless of the color of it -- to come back. WTH is wrong wth that?Not a damn thing. Yet opponets of public housing are called "bigots" or racists mainly by the two black city council members who want their knee-jerkvoting blocks back. They IGNORE the crime statistics/demographics.

    So yes, it DOES matter, unless you're in denial or live in a vacuum.

    Point is, wherever youEVEN MENTIONrace as an issue re: crime, you get slammed. Just expect it and don't argue with them -- you can't.Still, you DO have a right to have your say. After all, if THEY do, so do we.

    We all represent our respective race whether we like (or admit) it or not.

    -- John D.

    Like I said:
    On OCDO we don't talk about it because it's irrelevant. The right to self-defense is the same regardless of the attacker's ethnicity.

    Go ahead and play that "I'm tough enough to talk about race" BS. It still has absolutely nothing to do with carrying and self defense.

    Now before you click the reply button think long and hard if the point of this thread, which is protecting yourself at a rest stop,would be any different had the bad guys been white.

  13. #13
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    protector84,

    I agree with you...but most people don't want even to mention color, thinking they "take the high road" that way. That just helps the guilty continue flying under the radar as they try to keep a low profile, aided and abeted by naive, stupid or apologetic people, gun owners or not. But really,they're just in denial or too timid to state the facts. Here in the Houston area,it's mostly black faces seen on the TV being sought for this crime or that. Some ofthem might be Katrina trash from New Orleans (what a hole that place continues to be) still here after all this time but most is probably home-grown trash.

    Right now, here in Galveston, there is a LOT of controversy re: rebuilding public housing destroyed by Hurricane Ike)...guess who want it rebuilt and who doesn't? I'm one who doesn't because I don't want the trash, drugs and crime -- regardless of the color of it -- to come back. WTH is wrong wth that?Not a damn thing. Yet opponets of public housing are called "bigots" or racists mainly by the two black city council members who want their knee-jerkvoting blocks back. They IGNORE the crime statistics/demographics.

    So yes, it DOES matter, unless you're in denial or live in a vacuum.

    Point is, wherever youEVEN MENTIONrace as an issue re: crime, you get slammed. Just expect it and don't argue with them -- you can't.Still, you DO have a right to have your say. After all, if THEY do, so do we.

    We all represent our respective race whether we like (or admit) it or not.

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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