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Thread: Who can you take target shooting with you

  1. #1
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    For some reason i want to say they cannot, but i can't seem to find a cite. I want to say I've read one before though.

    I recently went shooting with some other friends from HS, word travels in a small town, so naturally i got a few phone calls.

    I've taken both people before, but that was when we were in high school and before either one had any type of record.

    The range is on private property if that makes any difference. I enjoy the company of both the guys in question, but i also have no problem telling them no.

    Any advice, either on where/what to look for?



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    Good question, What about minors?

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Felons NO

    Voluntary Commitment depends on what is in the treatment order and if a Judge signed it or just a doctor.

    Minors Yes with supervision


    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Minors can use/carry firearms within range of unaided voice and visual, IIRC. That was brought up in another thread about minors OCing.

    But at 15 or 16, IIRC, you can hunt unaided.

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    Felons can't even TOUCH a gun legally. AFAIK

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    BreakingTheMold wrote:
    For some reason i want to say they cannot, but i can't seem to find a cite. I want to say I've read one before though.

    I recently went shooting with some other friends from HS, word travels in a small town, so naturally i got a few phone calls.

    I've taken both people before, but that was when we were in high school and before either one had any type of record.

    The range is on private property if that makes any difference. I enjoy the company of both the guys in question, but i also have no problem telling them no.

    Any advice, either on where/what to look for?

    What kind of felony?


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    I'll have to find out, they're very well may not even be a felony record.

    But I know for sure he has been in incarcerated (60 days for not paying court fines) but i'm unsure of anything beyond that.

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    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    my best friend is a felon, he is nervous just being around my gun when I have it concealed.

    this is because he and every felon knows that if he has access to any firearm, it carries a manditory federal firearms charge which means he's going to be doing a 5 year bit.

    if you're around a felon and he says he isn't sure about if be can go shooting with you on a range... well I can't think of any scenario where if he is trying to stay on the straight and narrow where he would be comfortable around a firearm, let alone go to a gun range with you.

  9. #9
    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    also another poster mentioned a felon can't "touch" a gun, while this is true, it also extends to being in the immediate area of any unsecured firearm.

    this includes, I concealed carry, the gun is on my dashboard, 5 year offense by the felon.

    the felon is at his parents house, house has firearms in a closet, not in a Locked gun safe, 5 year offense.

    the felon without a doubt should have been informed of these things.

    felons and firearms don't mix, even if they are reformed.

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    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    felons and firearms don't mix, even if they are reformed.
    Check fraud over a certain amount of $$$$$ is a felony. Let's say you're an idiot, and you did it when you were 18, you served your time, you're out.

    You're 30 now. You've wised up, you've got a steady job, you've got a family.

    You still can't own a firearm.

    -Richard-

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    theres some felonies that dont ban firearm ownership i believe.

    my ex step father was a felon for drunk driving and bought an 870 at total firearms.

    and an ex co worker that bought an 870 at total firearms,and had a felonious DD(they both knew each other)

    both were on 3 day wait lists.



    but as far as i know,most of the time,felons cannot be in possesion of a firearm,or in a place that he/she knows or should know has unsecured firearms.

    can i get info on that minor can OC thing that was mentioned before? im very interested.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    office888 wrote:
    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    felons and firearms don't mix, even if they are reformed.
    Check fraud over a certain amount of $$$$$ is a felony. Let's say you're an idiot, and you did it when you were 18, you served your time, you're out.

    You're 30 now. You've wised up, you've got a steady job, you've got a family.

    You still can't own a firearm.

    -Richard-
    You can if you have the felony expunged.

    As quoted from the MSP website in the Michigan Concealed Pistol Law FAQ section:
    Is it possible to have my felony record from 20 years ago cleared so I can purchase a firearm?

    MCL 780.621 Allows a person to apply to have their felony conviction set-aside if it is their only conviction. If/when the set-aside is granted, you would be eligible to purchase or possess a firearm.

    MCL 750.224f If the felony conviction was "non-specified", you would be eligible to possess a firearm eight years after the date of conviction or confinement and 3 years after release from probation or parole, whichever is the later date, if that date is before July 1, 2001. If the date is after July 1, 2001, only a set-aside, expungement, or pardon would allow you to possess a firearm.

    If the felony conviction was "specified", you must either have been granted a restoration of your firearms rights by your local county gun board prior to July 1, 2001, or have a set-aside, expungement or pardon. A "specified" felony is one in which 1 or more of following circumstances exist: An element of that felony is the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or property of another, or that by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense. An element of that felony is the unlawful manufacture, possession, importation, exportation, distribution, or dispensing of a controlled substance. An element of that felony is the unlawful possession or distribution of a firearm. An element of that felony is the unlawful use of an explosive. The felony is burglary of an occupied dwelling, or breaking and entering an occupied dwelling, or arson.





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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    can i get info on that minor can OC thing that was mentioned before? im very interested.
    Now i only did a quick search on this.... but this is what i got....

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)

    Act 328 of 1931
    750.234f Possession of firearm by person less than 18 years of age; exceptions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234f.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), an individual less than 18 years of age shall not possess a firearm in public except under the direct supervision of an individual 18 years of age or older.
    (2) Subsection (1) does not apply to an individual less than 18 years of age who possesses a firearm in accordance with part 401 (wildlife conservation) of the natural resources and environmental protection act, Act No. 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.40101 to 324.40119 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, or part 435 (hunting and fishing licensing) of Act No. 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.43501 to 324.43561 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. However, an individual less than 18 years of age may possess a firearm without a hunting license while at, or going to or from, a recognized target range or trap or skeet shooting ground if, while going to or from the range or ground, the firearm is enclosed and securely fastened in a case or locked in the trunk of a motor vehicle.
    (3) An individual who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.




    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931

    750.235a Parent of minor guilty of misdemeanor; conditions; penalty; defense; definitions.
    Sec. 235a.
    (1) The parent of a minor is guilty of a misdemeanor if all of the following apply:
    (a) The parent has custody of the minor.
    (b) The minor violates this chapter in a weapon free school zone.
    (c) The parent knows that the minor would violate this chapter or the parent acts to further the violation.
    (2) An individual convicted under subsection (1) may be punished by 1 or more of the following:
    (a) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.
    (b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.
    (c) Probation.
    (3) It is a complete defense to a prosecution under this section if the defendant promptly notifies the local law enforcement agency or the school administration that the minor is violating or will violate this chapter in a weapon free school zone.
    (4) As used in this section:
    (a) “Minor” means an individual less than 18 years of age.
    (b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.
    (c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.
    (d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.

  14. #14
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    so....it IS legal to OC in a public place under 18 if directly supervised by an adult?
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    so....it IS legal to OC in a public place under 18 if directly supervised by an adult?
    What does the law state? I thought that the law was clean cut and dry... especially in this instance... very black and white...

    Are you still uncertain of the law?

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    What if your freind was ashamed of their felony, and never told you. Some people may wish to tell no one about their criminal past?

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    im on my laptop,which has a 9 inch screen,and those words are TINY,i was barely able to read what was in red.

    might have to long arm carry at the 2nd amendment march this spring(which is before im 18)

    unless somebody finds any laws further restricting me.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    im on my laptop,which has a 9 inch screen,and those words are TINY,i was barely able to read what was in red.

    might have to long arm carry at the 2nd amendment march this spring(which is before im 18)

    unless somebody finds any laws further restricting me.
    Well...

    By law you have to be 18 or older to purchase a pistol FTF private sale.

    By law you have to be 21 or older to purchase a pistol FFL dealer/store sale.

    By law you have to be 21 or older to purchase pistol ammunition.


    Now i do believe that there is no law or AG opinion protecting a person from carrying a long arm from frivolous charges like brandishing or disturbing the peace etc...

    YOU need to take this weekend and sit in front of your computer and do some research on the MSP website and look through all of the Michigan Compiled Laws pertaining to firearms.

    I want your report in blue or black ink and is due at the end of class on monday.

    CLASS DISMISSED!

  19. #19
    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    What if your freind was ashamed of their felony, and never told you. Some people may wish to tell no one about their criminal past?
    come on now man, you really think a LEO would care if he is ashamed? the felon knows he's a felon, if he didn't want you to know he was a felon, he would say he was sick or something, not go shooting because he thinks you'll find out he's a felon.

    however, it sounds like one of you wants to try the law, and by all means, be my guest but don't get caught.

  20. #20
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    THway wrote:
    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    im on my laptop,which has a 9 inch screen,and those words are TINY,i was barely able to read what was in red.

    might have to long arm carry at the 2nd amendment march this spring(which is before im 18)

    unless somebody finds any laws further restricting me.
    Well...

    By law you have to be 18 or older to purchase a pistol FTF private sale.

    By law you have to be 21 or older to purchase a pistol FFL dealer/store sale.

    By law you have to be 21 or older to purchase pistol ammunition.


    Now i do believe that there is no law or AG opinion protecting a person from carrying a long arm from frivolous charges like brandishing or disturbing the peace etc...

    YOU need to take this weekend and sit in front of your computer and do some research on the MSP website and look through all of the Michigan Compiled Laws pertaining to firearms.

    I want your report in blue or black ink and is due at the end of class on monday.

    CLASS DISMISSED!
    note that anybody 18+ can buy handgun ammunition,but only 21+ can at dealers.

    ill bring it up at the ponderosa meet next weekend for open discussion.

    and will study up on my laws during the week,i find it more fullfilling to browse ocdo and read the laws posted and everybodies comments on them however.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  21. #21
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    He has good right to be nervous. Michigan has a zero tolerance policy with felons near firearms. I just talked to the Parole board on this issue back in October and even though they knew me it was a bit sticky because I was thinking of allowing a kid who got in trouble to parole at my house. I known the kid since he was very young. They said they would be willing to work with me on the issue but stated the policy is zero tolerance and has caused issue with Law Enforcement officers who were also willing to allow someone to parole at their home. So access is the key word and as long as he doesn't have access to grab it I guess it will be ok, but the gun range might be a NO go.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    I can speak from personal experience as I have a 49 year old felony that prevents me from owning firearms. No excuses on my part, I was 18 andguilty.

    I am now 67 and have had my Michigan Firearms rights restored by the local CCW Board. BATF does not recognize this restoration because of their improper interpretation of Caron and the restriction of Michigan's CPL of never having been convicted of a felony. They (Michigan & Feds) do allow me to have muzzleloaderswhich I use for hunting.

    I am seeking persons who are in the same situation as I am to join in a class action suit to remedy this situation.I know there are thousands of people out there who have the same problem. How can I find them?

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