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Question for Military personnel about OC

Grapeshot

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ChinChin wrote:
Unless this gentleman is in fact a USMC Lite Colonel then he is guilty of violating 18 USC Sec. 912 (link: http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00912.html)
Thank you - memory served me correctly then.

Who would one call for such an infraction? Local PD, MP or feds?

It would have been a least slightly amusing to see the alleged Col. led off in cuffs.

Yata hey
 

jegoodin

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Stafford, Virginia, USA
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durellusmc wrote:

It was a sunday afternoon fresh haircut, and one lucky guess lol, but yea like I said earlier Marines can spot other Marines miles away.

IDk i think i like pound salt lol


He was probably a retired LTCOL who had his retiree ID card, but didn't want to come clean that he had overstepped his bounds and was bullying you.

I live in Stafford and OC in and around that area all the time, including at the Starbucks.

Good job standing your ground. The best tactic is to be calm, courteous, but firm about your rights.

My wife was in the Navy and stationed in Spain close to 20 years ago and I had been in for 6 years, but discharged for almost 4 years at that point. I continued to keep my hair relatively short and was often mistaken for active duty. I wore a small diamond stud on my left ear at that time (hey, I was young and it was the 80's). I had an off duty master at arms petty officer get in my face about my earring while I was coaching a soccer game once. He demanded my ID card and went ballistic when I told him I didn't have it on me. It got worse after I told him to "f"-off. Then he demanded to know who my commanding officer was. I pointed him to my "soccer mom" wife, the Navy LCDR. I figured if he was going to try to jerk me around then I was going to jerk him around a bit. I onlybring that up as an example of what NOT to do... (but it sure was fun at the time.)
 

ChinChin

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Grapeshot wrote:
ChinChin wrote:
Unless this gentleman is in fact a USMC Lite Colonel then he is guilty of violating 18 USC Sec. 912 (link: http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00912.html)
Thank you - memory served me correctly then.

Who would one call for such an infraction? Local PD, MP or feds?

It would have been a least slightly amusing to see the alleged Col. led off in cuffs.

Yata hey

Depends on how much of an issue the OP wants to make out of it. His command should have resources he can report it to; he'll have to fill out some forms so they can sit on a2nd Louie's desk for 5 years collecting dust and fresh bar residue.
 

DKSuddeth

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The second he asked for my name, the following would have taken place....

ME: With all due respect sir, we are not on the base, We are not in uniform, and We are not in the same unit. Since I am not currently breaking a virginia state law or any code of the UCMJ, you will not be receiving my name, unit, rank, or anything else you think you are entitled to. Thank you and have a good day.

I say this being a former Active marine.

semper fi
 

Grapeshot

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ChinChin wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
ChinChin wrote:
Unless this gentleman is in fact a USMC Lite Colonel then he is guilty of violating 18 USC Sec. 912 (link: http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00912.html)
Thank you - memory served me correctly then.

Who would one call for such an infraction? Local PD, MP or feds?

It would have been a least slightly amusing to see the alleged Col. led off in cuffs.

Yata hey

Depends on how much of an issue the OP wants to make out of it. His command should have resources he can report it to; he'll have to fill out some forms so they can sit on a2nd Louie's desk for 5 years collecting dust and fresh bar residue.
Info from link you provided above:

Convictions for September 2009 (Fiscal Year-to-Date)
Lead Charge: 18 USC 912 - False personification - Officer or employee of US​
The latest available data from the Justice Department show that during FY 2009 the government reported 33 new convictions for these matters.Those cases had a lead charge of "18 USC 912 - False personification - Officer or employee of US". According to the case-by-case information analyzed by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC), this estimate is up 26% over...

Yata hey
 

ProShooter

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peter nap wrote:
He's new at insulting people...It's pound sand.



From the Urban Dictionary......





go pound salt

Often confused with 'go pound sand' but more refined and less vulgar. To pound sand infers 'up an orifice' but to pound salt has more to do with a useless activity.



See? Us Jersey boys is refined!
 

Grapeshot

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ProShooter wrote:
peter nap wrote:
He's new at insulting people...It's pound sand.

From the Urban Dictionary......

go pound salt

Often confused with 'go pound sand' but more refined and less vulgar. To pound sand infers 'up an orifice' but to pound salt has more to do with a useless activity.


See? Us Jersey boys is refined!
Refined, but salty. :)

Yata hey
 

ProShooter

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www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
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Grapeshot wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
peter nap wrote:
He's new at insulting people...It's pound sand.

From the Urban Dictionary......

go pound salt

Often confused with 'go pound sand' but more refined and less vulgar. To pound sand infers 'up an orifice' but to pound salt has more to do with a useless activity.


See? Us Jersey boys is refined!
Refined, but salty. :)

Yata hey
I have a reply for that, but its not rated for General Audiences. :)
 

SoldierMedic

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Richmond, Virginia, USA
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5 years in the Army, 4 of those active duty, 2.5 years deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Never once have I ever had anyone who knew me as military say anything negative about OC. My guys all saw me carry off post, and many of them carried as well. I was the resident go to guy in my platoon for info on OC and CC in VA, TN, and KY where I carried.

It's unfortunate that a LtC would have something BAD to say about one of his fellow Marines OCing, considering you have much more training (probably) than the average person, and a combat mindset that would allow you to be more controlled under pressure were you to be in a confrontation. Oh well, maybe he was a pogue or just retried and didn't know how things were in Virginia these days.

Semper Fi
 

SouthernBoy

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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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wylde007 wrote:
Lt. Col. Dips**t was completely out of line and he should have been told to cram it.

Of course, you probably can't do that since he's a "superior" but fortunately us "civilians" haven't subjected ourselves to the military hierarchy where we recognize any one man as superior... so we can say things like that.
Yeah!

Let's look at this a minute. Correct me gentlemen if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that military personnel take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

WHERE IN THE HELL DOES THIS DIPS--T GET OFF GETTING ON YOUR CASE IF HE IS, IN FACT, MILITARY?? Who in the hell does he think he is? Since he is NOT upholding and defending the Constitution, would not that make him subject to a courts marshall for dereliction of duty? And if he is NOT defending the Constitution, what the hell IS he defending?

I need help here.
 

DocV

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Virginia Beach, ,
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You handled it well. I wouldn't worry about it. I can't believe the number of senior officers, NCOs, and Chiefs that I have met that seemto have a problem with civilian ownership of firearms, not to mention OC and CC. There are as many sheeple in uniform as there are in the civilian community.

DocV

P.S. I'm the O5 Doc Daddy was talking about...
 

Tricorn

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Fredericksburg, Virginia, USA
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Grapeshot wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
peter nap wrote:
He's new at insulting people...It's pound sand.

From the Urban Dictionary......

go pound salt

Often confused with 'go pound sand' but more refined and less vulgar. To pound sand infers 'up an orifice' but to pound salt has more to do with a useless activity.


See? Us Jersey boys is refined!
Refined, but salty. :)

Yata hey
In New York we used the salt variation. And we directed them as tothe appropriateorifice in which to pound the salt.
 

SIGguy229

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DKSuddeth wrote:
The second he asked for my name, the following would have taken place....

ME: With all due respect sir, we are not on the base, We are not in uniform, and We are not in the same unit. Since I am not currently breaking a virginia state law or any code of the UCMJ, you will not be receiving my name, unit, rank, or anything else you think you are entitled to. Thank you and have a good day.

I say this being a former Active marine.

semper fi
Being on base or in uniform is irrelevant IRT effecting a lawful order...duty is 24/7...This isn't the cub scouts where you can determine whether you are going to obey or not (if the other person properly identifies himself/herself).

That said, this supposed LTC was completely ignorant about what he was talking about..and you rightfully called his bluff....If he didn't have an ID card, he wasn't a LTC, IMO

Personally, I wouldn't confront another servicemember OCing....because it is in compliance with State law.

However, if I were to see a servicemember in uniform doing something stupid (i.e. no cover crossing a parking lot, underage drinking, or anything that could embarrass the service, or put themselves at risk)--you bet I would say something (and have my ID card handy).
 

Tomahawk

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SouthernBoy wrote:
WHERE IN THE HELL DOES THIS DIPS--T GET OFF GETTING ON YOUR CASE IF HE IS, IN FACT, MILITARY?? Who in the hell does he think he is? Since he is NOT upholding and defending the Constitution, would not that make him subject to a courts marshall for dereliction of duty? And if he is NOT defending the Constitution, what the hell IS he defending?

I need help here.


It's something some people don't understand, that once you are in the military they basically own you 24/7 until you get out. There really is no such thing as "off duty", not completely. And the Marine Corps, at least, is particularly concerned with Marines acting inappropriately in front of civilians. When I was a recruit I was told that if any superior NCO, SNCO, or officer stops you on the street you are to be respectful, and that if you are caughtmisbehaving youmay be held accountable.

Thus if you are drunk and stupid or wearing your uniform improperly LtCol Dipshit has the authority to light you up.

Being the military, with lots of egos and powertrips, many LtCol Dipshits out there like to substitute their opinions for actual rules and throw their weight around.

There's nothing like that feeling the first time some jackass gets in your face and yells at you for something after you've gotten out but before your hair has grown in. You can finally tell him to go piss up a rope. People who spend their entire lives in the military never really get to experience that kind of off-the-leash freedom.
 

kaiheitai17

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To the best of my knowledge, unlike those unfortunate soldiers stationed/assigned to Army commands in Alaska, there is NO Marine Corps order by any commander of a base, station, or other command that forbids the carry of handguns for personal defense by Marines stationed in Virginia while off base. Of course on base is another story.

Sig229 guy is correct, doesn't matter as to your duty status, a service member is subject to all lawful orders. Even I, as a retired Marine, am still subject to all lawful orders from superior officers.
 

skidmark

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Please contact our esteemed member Ed and ask him for some OC cards. (I'd send you some but we discovered a typo - don't want to put out sloppy work.;))

Handing out the OC cards pretty much stops the conversations like you had dead in their tracks. If it does not, you can invite the individual to verify the information themselves - which then pretty much shuts off the whining. They are also wonderful for explaining OC to those who are curious but not antagonistic.

Of course members of the military also carry the option of requesting that any oder from a superior be reduced to writing. I never met a higher rank off duty who was "irritated" at my off-duty behavior that was willing to commit to writing an order instructing me to cease and desist. Seems that Article 134 of the UCMJ covers "Acting like a jackass to the detriment of the service" as well as all other possibilities, and they know it.

stay safe.

skidmark
 

SIGguy229

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wylde007 wrote:
And telling you not to open carry in Virginia is an UNLAWFUL order no matter what crayon you're coloring with.
Not unlawful....just stupid. Why? Because the order would be unenforceable beyond visual range....

In this case, the LTC (assuming he was one) could issue the order...and it would be lawful. However, since this LTC is NOT in the Marine's chain of command, it could not be enforced.

(Devil's advocate here) If the Marine's command issued an order not to OC (or CC) off-base, etc....it would be a lawful order. Similiar to above, it would be difficult to enforce, unless the command discovered the Marine violated the order (like being kicked out of a restaurant, arrested by an over-zealous LEO)--then the Marine would be subject to UCMJ actions.

As far as the legality of the order from the commander, that would have to be an argument brought up by a lawyer....during a court-martial.
 
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