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Thread: Handcuffed, disarmed for obeying the law

  1. #1
    Regular Member kwiebe's Avatar
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    Despicable police treatment in Nevada:

    "http://tinyurl.com/ycvkubd"]http://tinyurl.com/ycvkubd[/url]







  2. #2
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    This is completely uncalled for and I would hope this officer gets her ass chewed out for this clearly illegal action on her part. I say illegal because IT WAS THE OWNER'S PROPERTY!!! Where in the hell does law enforcement get off believing they can disarm and handcuff someone ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY who is abiding by the law and NOT the subject of intent?

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Well, if you need a whole lot of money but just can't win the lottery, maybe this happening to you is the next best thing...at least you should get SOME money out of it. ;-)

    Sounds like a pending lawsuit...or will be settled out of court.

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    snip:


    If these arrogant, uniformed employees of ours really want to treat us as the enemy, they may eventually get their wish, at which point they will discover they're vastly outnumbered -- and "backup" is never quite close enough to solve the problem they've created for themselves.
    This is the line that all civil servants (inluding politicians) need to keep in mind at all times.

  5. #5
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    snip:


    If these arrogant, uniformed employees of ours really want to treat us as the enemy, they may eventually get their wish, at which point they will discover they're vastly outnumbered -- and "backup" is never quite close enough to solve the problem they've created for themselves.
    This is the line that all civil servants (inluding politicians) need to keep in mind at all times.
    they forgot that long ago--they think they can say and do anything they please.



  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Reminds me of a recent discussion we had in Washingtong forum, where the 911 operator and the LEO feel that you shouldn't be armed if the police arrive, when you are the one who called them.

    I of course disagree.

    And then to leave the guy cuffed for a long time!!!!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
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    suntzu wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    snip:


    If these arrogant, uniformed employees of ours really want to treat us as the enemy, they may eventually get their wish, at which point they will discover they're vastly outnumbered -- and "backup" is never quite close enough to solve the problem they've created for themselves.
    This is the line that all civil servants (inluding politicians) need to keep in mind at all times.
    they forgot that long ago--they think they can say and do anything they please.

    Just what part of Tennessee do you live in, anyway?

    Where I live, LEO are pretty cool about LAC being armed. I've yet to be checked for my HCP; the deputies here are more interested inwhat model and calI'm carrying.

    Back in October I figured up the ratio of HCP holders in my county, and came up with 1 in 14 residents over the age of 21 with HCP's.There were 483 HCP holders in Perry County, then. Last figures for Jan 1, 10, we have 506 HCP holders.

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    kwiebe wrote:
    Despicable police treatment in Nevada:

    "http://tinyurl.com/ycvkubd"]http://tinyurl.com/ycvkubd[/url]






    Speechless







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    My question is, "Is the order to 'Get up against the wall' AND 'Cuff up' legal orders?" Terry stop requirements are 'armed AND dangerous'.

    Dave

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    One of the guys on our local Vegas forum claims to have spoke to the police about this. Here is the link

    http://nevadashooters.com/showthread...701&page=4

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    The responding officer was a lady cop, officer J. Rogers, badge number 13525.

    "Upon presentation of my (firearms permit), the officer asked if I had the weapon on me to which I replied yes. She then said to spread my legs and put my hands behind my back. I complied and she then handcuffed me. While doing so, she said that she wanted to make certain 'that we were all safe.' "
    Safe from who? The law-abiding citizen who called the police? Or from the idiot cop who violated his civil rights and grossly inflated the situation?

    If she's really interested in making sure "that we were all safe," her best bet is to turn in her badge and gun, and find another job.

    I usually had pretty good interaction with the cops in Vegas. Hell, I lived next door to two from Metro, both female. Neither one was the officer in question, though.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    snip:


    If these arrogant, uniformed employees of ours really want to treat us as the enemy, they may eventually get their wish, at which point they will discover they're vastly outnumbered -- and "backup" is never quite close enough to solve the problem they've created for themselves.
    This is the line that all civil servants (inluding politicians) need to keep in mind at all times.
    In so many words, this is exactly what Thomas Jefferson, among other of the Founders, inferred in some of their writings.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  13. #13
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    snip:


    If these arrogant, uniformed employees of ours really want to treat us as the enemy, they may eventually get their wish, at which point they will discover they're vastly outnumbered -- and "backup" is never quite close enough to solve the problem they've created for themselves.
    This is the line that all civil servants (inluding politicians) need to keep in mind at all times.
    This is the whole reason for the 2nd A. To give the people the ability to fight tyranny.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    "This calls for immediate discussion."


    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    snip:


    If these arrogant, uniformed employees of ours really want to treat us as the enemy, they may eventually get their wish, at which point they will discover they're vastly outnumbered -- and "backup" is never quite close enough to solve the problem they've created for themselves.
    This is the line that all civil servants (inluding politicians) need to keep in mind at all times.
    This is the whole reason for the 2nd A. To give the people the ability to fight tyranny.
    Of course it is.

    What so many people seem to forget is this. At the time of the creation of the Bill of Rights, men carried arms for several reasons. No one in their right mind would have given a thought to someone hunting food for his family. The same would be true for a man protecting himself or his family. It was a given and as natural as breathing. Neither of these things were a consideration for the Second Amendment. Someone would have been seen as crazy to suggest that people shouldn't hunt or that self-defense was perhaps somehow wrong.

    That leaves only one other reason for the Second Amendment and we all know what that is. To serve as a guarantee that a free people shall remain free and in order for them to do so required they maintain their own arms as a check against government's power.

    Very simple.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    ....and yet I have to keep arguing with folks who think it "only applies to the federal government".....


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Regular Member opusd2's Avatar
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    Just proves the Police Mentality that anyone but them are criminals. Of course not all LEO are like that, but it seems like a rampant disease to allow them to treat civilians like criminals that they just need to find the law they broke.

    And if a police officer with special training feels threatened by someone who hasn't the training, then they need a different job. Maybe listening for the alarm that alerts you to the fries being done.
    I aim to misbehave

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    The only way to stop this kind of thing, is if we simply refuse to be disarmed.

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    The only way to stop this kind of thing, is if we simply refuse to be disarmed.
    Amen.

  20. #20
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    The major problem here, as I see it, is a matter of presumption and expectation. We as a society are allowing our LEAs and other government agencies to develop the expectation that anyone they deal with on a day to day basis will NOT be armed, so therefor, the logical presumption on the part of any LEO is that they need not worry about a firearm unless one is presented, and policy need not take into serious account the armed citizen variable.

    This presumption creates a dangerous, false sense of security on an officers part that they need not consider a firearm unless seen or informed about it, so naturally, they are socked and unsure how to appropriately act/react about an individual who is carrying a firearm. Over-reaction than places the LAC at risk at the hands of the LEO.

    The old adage begs to be stated here...."When all you do, all day long, is pound nails, everything starts to look like a nail."

    There are few professions that this adage applies more aptly to than law enforcement.

    This mindset however is quickly becoming a dangerous liability for LEAs in today's America, where more and more LAC are choosing to carry on a daily basis, and laws country wide are swinging from the cherry pick and potholed laws of places allowed, to the short list of places not.

    LEAs need to sit up and take notice of these facts and start training our public servants to expect the LACs they interact with every day to be carrying. The days of the safe presumptuous equation, that gun equals criminal, are long over, and are becoming serious legal and public relations liabilities.

    An LEO knowing for a fact that a given individual is carrying a gun may be safe knowledge, but going into every encounter with the expectation that everyone and anyone may be armed is a much safer practice.

    When the predominant mindset swings from that of a reaction to the presence of a firearm, to that of assumption of the presence of a firearm, the policies and procedures will shift in both the LEOs, and the public's favor.

  21. #21
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    "The responding officer was a lady cop, officer J. Rogers, badge number 13525."



    Officer Rogershandled the interactionquite incompetently, based on the details in OP's link. I wouldn't fire her, I don't think. But she needs to understand the extent of her illogic and bad judgment and the severity of her offenses.

    When LEO's do a great job, they get praised. When they do a piss-poor job they should get criticism. And consequences.



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    stainless1911 wrote:
    The only way to stop this kind of thing, is if we simply refuse to be disarmed.
    How many of us do that? Ever hear of any cases? What could happen if one did refuse to br cuffed up?



    Dave

  23. #23
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    This is one of the problems with female police officers. They are not as strong as their male counterparts and therefore, believe they must resort to containment methods in order to control people and maintain the upper hand. Years ago, when women first began appearing on the streets as LEO's acting as would the men on the force, the incidences of police shootings increased because females were found to be more apt to pull their guns and use them then were males.

    And don't give me any of this sexist crap - I don't swim in that pool. Facts are facts and they speak for themselves. The femi-nazis have done more harm to women than they will ever admit to or even know.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  24. #24
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    This is one of the problems with female police officers. They are not as strong as their male counterparts and therefore, believe they must resort to containment methods in order to control people and maintain the upper hand. Years ago, when women first began appearing on the streets as LEO's acting as would the men on the force, the incidences of police shootings increased because females were found to be more apt to pull their guns and use them then were males.

    .... Facts are facts and they speak for themselves.

    This sounds plausible. Maybe. Do you have a cite?




    SouthernBoy wrote:
    And don't give me any of this sexist crap - I don't swim in that pool...The femi-nazis have done more harm to women than they will ever admit to or even know.
    There's something very, very tortured about the logic in this statement.

    Actually, SB, I do believe thatit invertedly proves you're wrong about where you swim...

  25. #25
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    This is one of the problems with female police officers. They are not as strong as their male counterparts and therefore, believe they must resort to containment methods in order to control people and maintain the upper hand. Years ago, when women first began appearing on the streets as LEO's acting as would the men on the force, the incidences of police shootings increased because females were found to be more apt to pull their guns and use them then were males.

    .... Facts are facts and they speak for themselves.

    This sounds plausible. Maybe. Do you have a cite?




    SouthernBoy wrote:
    And don't give me any of this sexist crap - I don't swim in that pool...The femi-nazis have done more harm to women than they will ever admit to or even know.
    There's something very, very tortured about the logic in this statement.

    Actually, SB, I do believe thatit invertedly proves you're wrong about where you swim...
    Very good question about my comment regarding more shootings by female officers than males. Yes, there was documented evidence which I saw, but of course, I am not able to pull it from my pocket.

    As for the "tortured" thing, listen. I have a wife and two daughters, Do you think for one moment that I would want them to earn less than a man for the same (must be the same) amount of work or any similar arguments that the femi-nazis like to present? Hell no. What does concern me is putting women in positions were they could get themselves or others injured or killed due to their lack of strength or other factors. I'm a realist and accept and know that there are differences between the sexes for good reason. God didn't make any mistakes. That's all - it's that simple.

    The "pool" to which I refer is that which so many people have seemed to adopt via PC and other venues, that says that women and men are the same - i.e., identical. Nonsense.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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