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Thread: Private handgun sales & paperwork ?

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    Of the states that allow private handgun transfers are there any that require some form of paperwork by law ?

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    northstar65 wrote:
    Of the states that allow private handgun transfers are there any that require some form of paperwork by law ?
    Is there a state that prohibits private handgun transfers?

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    northstar65 wrote:
    Of the states that allow private handgun transfers are there any that require some form of paperwork by law ?
    Is there a state that prohibits private handgun transfers?
    Yes, Doug, I believe there is a few that requirre all transfers be done through FFL.

    I know that in TN there is no paper work required for prigvate transfers.

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    northstar65 wrote:
    Of the states that allow private handgun transfers are there any that require some form of paperwork by law ?
    In North Carolina, if a buyer does not have a concealed carry permit, then they must obtain a purchase permit which is to be given to the seller at the time of the transactoinand kept by (forever) the seller.

    I believe if the buyer has a concealed carry permit, then it must be noted on a bill of sale that a concealed permit was used, I am not entirely sure about the last point.

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    The only paperwork required in Texas for a private sale of any firearmis for the greenbacks to change hands.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    WI & SC too

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    Master Doug Huffman, quite a few actually... this info is from the Map page of OCDO:



    California = any privategun transferis illegal

    Iowa = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Michigan = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Pennsylvania = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    North Carolina = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    New Jersey = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Massachusetts = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Illinois = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    Connecticut = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    New York = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    Oregon = Illegal to transfer private ownership at gun shows

    Colorado = Illegal to transfer private ownership at gun shows

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    YoZUpZ wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman, quite a few actually... this info is from the Map page of OCDO:

    North Carolina = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal
    This is incorrect. Private handgun transfers are legal. As I stated above, all one needs is sheriff issued purchase permit or if one has a concealed carry permit. There is no requirement to report the sale or what type of handgun you plan on purchasing or have purchased. The permits are only one's permission to acquire the gun. Long guns may be purchased without any type of paper work.

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    tekshogun wrote:
    YoZUpZ wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman, quite a few actually... this info is from the Map page of OCDO:

    North Carolina = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal
    This is incorrect. Private handgun transfers are legal. As I stated above, all one needs is sheriff issued purchase permit or if one has a concealed carry permit. There is no requirement to report the sale or what type of handgun you plan on purchasing or have purchased. The permits are only one's permission to acquire the gun. Long guns may be purchased without any type of paper work.
    In free states, no permit is required. I think they mean private transfers without priorgov. permission.

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    In West Virginia, I have bought many handguns at gun shows with no paperwork.

    Just hand the guy at teh table selling guns cash, and you are on your way.

    Thats the way it should be everywhere.

    IMHO, the government has no business knowing what firearms I own.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Illinois = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show
    That's incorrect. In Illinois it is legal. Each party needs to keep a copy of the other's FIOD card for 10 years. The 3 day waiting period for handguns still applies to private parties.

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    In Connecticut it isn't illegal you do have to ask permission for it, call the state for an authorization number at which point you give your and the buyers permit number.

    Long guns need no paperwork though. It's a shame really because everyone ought to have a few guns the .gov doesn't know about right?

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    CraigC178 wrote:

    Illinois = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show
    That's incorrect. In Illinois it is legal. Each party needs to keep a copy of the other's FIOD card for 10 years. The 3 day waiting period for handguns still applies to private parties.
    Plase cite to Ill. statute for this rule of law you have stated.

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    (430 ILCS 65/3) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑3)
    Sec. 3. (a) Except as provided in Section 3a, no person may knowingly transfer, or cause to be transferred, any firearm, firearm ammunition, stun gun, or taser to any person within this State unless the transferee with whom he deals displays a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card which has previously been issued in his name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act. In addition, all firearm, stun gun, and taser transfers by federally licensed firearm dealers are subject to Section 3.1.
    (a‑5) Any person who is not a federally licensed firearm dealer and who desires to transfer or sell a firearm while that person is on the grounds of a gun show must, before selling or transferring the firearm, request the Department of State Police to conduct a background check on the prospective recipient of the firearm in accordance with Section 3.1.
    (b) Any person within this State who transfers or causes to be transferred any firearm, stun gun, or taser shall keep a record of such transfer for a period of 10 years from the date of transfer. Such record shall contain the date of the transfer; the description, serial number or other information identifying the firearm, stun gun, or taser if no serial number is available; and, if the transfer was completed within this State, the transferee's Firearm Owner's Identification Card number. On or after January 1, 2006, the record shall contain the date of application for transfer of the firearm. On demand of a peace officer such transferor shall produce for inspection such record of transfer. If the transfer or sale took place at a gun show, the record shall include the unique identification number. Failure to record the unique identification number is a petty offense.



    I need to find it in the ICS, but the Illinois State Police FAQ page addresses waiting periods for private sales. Its the second question from the bottom.

    http://www.isp.state.il.us/FOID/firearmsfaq.cfm

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    CraigC178 wrote:
    (430 ILCS 65/3) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑3)
    Sec. 3. (a) Except as provided in Section 3a, no person may knowingly transfer, or cause to be transferred, any firearm, firearm ammunition, stun gun, or taser to any person within this State unless the transferee with whom he deals displays a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card which has previously been issued in his name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act. In addition, all firearm, stun gun, and taser transfers by federally licensed firearm dealers are subject to Section 3.1.
    (a‑5) Any person who is not a federally licensed firearm dealer and who desires to transfer or sell a firearm while that person is on the grounds of a gun show must, before selling or transferring the firearm, request the Department of State Police to conduct a background check on the prospective recipient of the firearm in accordance with Section 3.1.
    (b) Any person within this State who transfers or causes to be transferred any firearm, stun gun, or taser shall keep a record of such transfer for a period of 10 years from the date of transfer. Such record shall contain the date of the transfer; the description, serial number or other information identifying the firearm, stun gun, or taser if no serial number is available; and, if the transfer was completed within this State, the transferee's Firearm Owner's Identification Card number. On or after January 1, 2006, the record shall contain the date of application for transfer of the firearm. On demand of a peace officer such transferor shall produce for inspection such record of transfer. If the transfer or sale took place at a gun show, the record shall include the unique identification number. Failure to record the unique identification number is a petty offense.


    I need to find it in the ICS, but the Illinois State Police FAQ page addresses waiting periods for private sales. Its the second question from the bottom.

    http://www.isp.state.il.us/FOID/firearmsfaq.cfm
    So, what is the definition of firearm for this section? Handgun and long gun both?

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    (430 ILCS 65/1.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑1.1)
    Sec. 1.1. For purposes of this Act:
    "Has been adjudicated as a mental defective" means the person is the subject of a determination by a court, board, commission or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, mental impairment, incompetency, condition, or disease:
    (1) is a danger to himself, herself, or to others;
    (2) lacks the mental capacity to manage his or her
    own affairs;
    (3) is not guilty in a criminal case by reason of
    insanity, mental disease or defect;
    (4) is incompetent to stand trial in a criminal case;
    (5) is not guilty by reason of lack of mental
    responsibility pursuant to Articles 50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 850a, 876b.
    "Counterfeit" means to copy or imitate, without legal authority, with intent to deceive.
    "Federally licensed firearm dealer" means a person who is licensed as a federal firearms dealer under Section 923 of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (18 U.S.C. 923).
    "Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:
    (1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or
    B‑B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;
    (2) any device used exclusively for signalling or
    safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;
    (3) any device used exclusively for the firing of
    stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and
    (4) an antique firearm (other than a machine‑gun)
    which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.


    Both

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    CraigC178 wrote:
    ("Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:
    (1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or
    B‑B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

    (2) any device used exclusively for signalling or

    safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;

    (3) any device used exclusively for the firing of

    stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and

    (4) an antique firearm (other than a machine‑gun)

    which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
    OK, so how would you code Illinois on our private xfer map?

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    It doesn't really fit neatly into any of the categories that are on there. I'd label it "Legal with restrictions" or "Legal with state specific requirements". Our gun laws are a confusing mess, but private transfers are legal as long as the waiting period is observed and the proper records are kept.

    There might also be local restrictions that I am unaware of. Illinois allows any municipality with more than 25,000 residents to pass its own laws unless the general assembly has passes a law preempting home-rule. Than hasn't happened with guns because it requires a 3/5ths majority.

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    In Missouri, the paperwork consist of a stack of dead presidents, in most cases.

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    YoZUpZ wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman, quite a few actually... this info is from the Map page of OCDO:

    *

    California = any private*gun transfer*is illegal

    Iowa = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Michigan = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Pennsylvania = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    North Carolina = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    New Jersey = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Massachusetts = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Illinois = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    Connecticut = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    New York = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    Oregon = Illegal to transfer private ownership at gun shows

    Colorado = Illegal to transfer private ownership at gun shows
    i recently bought a glock from a private party here in MI and was not illegal, just requires the pistol purchase permit which is used for FFL and private

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    iheartglock wrote:
    YoZUpZ wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman, quite a few actually... this info is from the Map page of OCDO:



    California = any privategun transferis illegal

    Iowa = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Michigan = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Pennsylvania = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    North Carolina = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    New Jersey = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Massachusetts = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Illinois = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    Connecticut = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    New York = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    Oregon = Illegal to transfer private ownership at gun shows

    Colorado = Illegal to transfer private ownership at gun shows
    i recently bought a glock from a private party here in MI and was not illegal, just requires the pistol purchase permit which is used for FFL and private
    You're not incorrect that with a license to purchase (LTP) in Michigan, you can obtain a pistol through a non-FFL. However, what is really meant by:

    "Michigan = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal"

    that a pistol can not be legally purchased in Michigan from a relative/neighbor/gun show/etc, unless you have a LTP or a CPL. In other words, you can not purchase a pistol like you canfor a rifle or shotgun without the appropriate paperwork.


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    Here's a question for the legal guru's....

    I have a friend selling a rifle in OH, but I am a PA resident. Can I legally travel (30 minutes) to OH and do a F2F transfer of the rifle?

    I understand F2F for long guns and pistols are legal in OH, but I cant find anything on residency requirements.

    ~Thanks




    .
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    iheartglock wrote:
    YoZUpZ wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman, quite a few actually... this info is from the Map page of OCDO:



    California = any privategun transferis illegal

    Iowa = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Michigan = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Pennsylvania = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    North Carolina = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    New Jersey = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Massachusetts = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal

    Illinois = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    Connecticut = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    New York = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal if not at gun show

    Oregon = Illegal to transfer private ownership at gun shows

    Colorado = Illegal to transfer private ownership at gun shows
    i recently bought a glock from a private party here in MI and was not illegal, just requires the pistol purchase permit which is used for FFL and private
    You're not incorrect that with a license to purchase (LTP) in Michigan, you can obtain a pistol through a non-FFL. However, what is really meant by:

    "Michigan = private handgun transfer is illegal, long gun legal"

    that a pistol can not be legally purchased in Michigan from a relative/neighbor/gun show/etc, unless you have a LTP or a CPL. In other words, you can not purchase a pistol like you canfor a rifle or shotgun without the appropriate paperwork.
    gotcha

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    CraigC178 wrote:
    It doesn't really fit neatly into any of the categories that are on there. I'd label it "Legal with restrictions" or "Legal with state specific requirements". Our gun laws are a confusing mess, but private transfers are legal as long as the waiting period is observed and the proper records are kept.

    There might also be local restrictions that I am unaware of. Illinois allows any municipality with more than 25,000 residents to pass its own laws unless the general assembly has passes a law preempting home-rule. Than hasn't happened with guns because it requires a 3/5ths majority.
    Nobody asked my opinion, but I'll give it anyway.

    I would lable this a plain and simple "Banned."

    When I see the phrase "private sale" that implies to me a sale between two parties and those two parties alone. The requirement to keep records, and to surrender those records to the government upon demand makes it not at all "private".

    It all comes down to what the definition of "private" is. Your definition appears to simply be a purchase from someone who is not a licensed dealer. To me "private" means a purchase between two individuals that is unknown by any outside party, including the government.

    The owners of the OCDO maps will have to decide what "private" means to them before their maps will be able to accurately and consistently depict the status of each state. Once they do, it becomes important that they indicate what meaning they have ascribed to it, so everyone who reads the map will understand what the information presented really means.

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    When I see the phrase "private sale" that implies to me a sale between two parties and those two parties alone. The requirement to keep records, and to surrender those records to the government upon demand makes it not at all "private".
    Yeah, right now John and I are thinking of creatig a new category for Illinois and Massachussets - both states have very similar wrinkles to take account of.

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