Peet's Coffee CEO Declares Ban on Open Carry

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gogodawgs wrote:

MudCamper wrote:

Regardless of the fact that we have the 2A right (and even when we "officially" do after incorporation), the fact of the matter is that property owners have rights to, and if they want you to leave then you have to obey, or you are violating trespass law.

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Well the question then will be much the same as the other Bill of Rights. Places of 'public accomodation' can not bar your first ammendment right to wear a religious shirt, or to assemble, or to speak.....

They are not private property in the same manner as your home. As long as they allow the public on thier property and you are doing nothing illegal then you are protected. There are some limitations but generally it is difficult for a business to ban you when you are in a protected class. (i.e. race, religion)

You only violate tresspass after you have been told to leave and you don't. Or if you have been tresspassed for a period of time and return.

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I respect private property rights as much as any other right. And your last paragraph is correct. But as a land owner myself, having personal experience with trespassers, it really pisses me off that people feel entitled to use MY land and push the limits and force me to call the sheriff. I think that the OC community should show a little more respect than this and HONOR ALL RIGHTS, not just the 2A.

In this case we're also talking about a business. We can speak with our pocketbooks, and take our business elsewhere. Further, we can exercise our 1A right and tell as many people as we can NOT to give any business to Peet's.

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I wish I would have read this before I gave them my business today (inside Raley's grocery store) for the first (and last) time. I will be spreading the word.

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coolusername2007 wrote:


By the way...here's what their own website says about their founder (in part). Obviously he came to America in search of freedom and liberty. I wonder what he'd say about their new policy limiting freedom and liberty.

Mr. Peet was born in Alkmaar, Holland on March 10, 1920 and died in Ashland, Oregon on August 29, 2007. His father had a small coffee roastery in Alkmaar prior to World War II, and Alfred helped his father by cleaning machinery and doing other odd jobs as a boy. When Germany invaded the Netherlands he was pressed into working for the Third Reich in Frankfurt and witnessed first hand the intensive Allied bombings there in early 1944. When the war ended, Alfred joined Lipton’s Tea in London as an apprentice and afterwards went out to the still-Dutch colony of Indonesia to work in the tea business there. He immigrated to San Francisco in 1955 and eventually found a job in the coffee importing business of E. A. Johnson & Co.
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Maybe one of our better educated and more articulate members could write a letter that shows the parallels between his policy and Nazi Germany and other governments that disarm their people. Also I would add in the information about what happens in victim disarmament zones ie: VT, Ft Hood, etc.

I would do it myself but if you have read some of my posts you'll understand why.

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MudCamper wrote:

gogodawgs wrote:

MudCamper wrote:

Regardless of the fact that we have the 2A right (and even when we "officially" do after incorporation), the fact of the matter is that property owners have rights to, and if they want you to leave then you have to obey, or you are violating trespass law.

Click to expand...

Well the question then will be much the same as the other Bill of Rights. Places of 'public accomodation' can not bar your first ammendment right to wear a religious shirt, or to assemble, or to speak.....

They are not private property in the same manner as your home. As long as they allow the public on thier property and you are doing nothing illegal then you are protected. There are some limitations but generally it is difficult for a business to ban you when you are in a protected class. (i.e. race, religion)

You only violate tresspass after you have been told to leave and you don't. Or if you have been tresspassed for a period of time and return.

Click to expand...

I respect private property rights as much as any other right. And your last paragraph is correct. But as a land owner myself, having personal experience with trespassers, it really pisses me off that people feel entitled to use MY land and push the limits and force me to call the sheriff. I think that the OC community should show a little more respect than this and HONOR ALL RIGHTS, not just the 2A.

In this case we're also talking about a business. We can speak with our pocketbooks, and take our business elsewhere. Further, we can exercise our 1A right and tell as many people as we can NOT to give any business to Peet's.

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Mud ~ This is a tough one and I agree that all rights need to be honored. And at this point if asked to leave, we leave. What I am simply trying to point out is that incorporation includes 'public accomodation' and when you are a business and you open that business to the general public you thereby honor certain protected rights of the citizens. A property owner has the right to not open that business to the public, but they do and that is the beauty of this great land. If I was a black man and I went to PEET's to get coffee and they asked me to leave beause it is private property it would never stand. PEET's opened their property to all legally protected people.

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Boycott Peet's cafe, walk in front of the coffee shop protesting our right's. Hello Star Bucks. Peet's and other place that have businesses should get sued over civil liberty rights. Now I can't walk around town with protection, but the cops can. When I lived in Las Vegas never herd or experience what I have in California. We are surrounded by states that have open carry laws that allow you to carry loade and have no limit in mag capacity.

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gogodawgs wrote:

MudCamper wrote:

Regardless of the fact that we have the 2A right (and even when we "officially" do after incorporation), the fact of the matter is that property owners have rights to, and if they want you to leave then you have to obey, or you are violating trespass law.

Click to expand...

Well the question then will be much the same as the other Bill of Rights. Places of 'public accomodation' can not bar your first ammendment right to wear a religious shirt, or to assemble, or to speak.....

They are not private property in the same manner as your home. As long as they allow the public on thier property and you are doing nothing illegal then you are protected. There are some limitations but generally it is difficult for a business to ban you when you are in a protected class. (i.e. race, religion)

You only violate tresspass after you have been told to leave and you don't. Or if you have been tresspassed for a period of time and return.

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I believe you're right.

However, I believe the law prohibiting discrimination is wrong, and I intend to work to overturn it. While I realize it's not a popular view, I believe a business owner should be permitted to reserve the right to refuse service for any reason. It's a basic liberty issue. If I run a cafe that only serves white christians, then someone will do well who opens a cafe next to mine that serves all races and religions. The free market fixes the problem.

Now I know someone will say "well that would result in segregation and certain minorities not being able to buy goods or receive services, etc."

50 years ago this was an issue. However, it was not due to individuals exercising discrimination. It was due to individuals and groups that covertly and overtly sabotaged businesses that served those minorities. In some places a business would be burned and the owner possibly murdered for serving "negroes."

Two notes before I get the flamethrower treatment:

1) I believe discrimination is a word that has become widely misused and given negative connotation. Look the word up in the dictionary. I believe discrimination is good - it simply means choosing. Every business discriminates. A high-end steak house that charges $100 a plate is discriminating by requiring blazers and ties be worn. Peet's is simply choosing their clientel in a different way, which I believe is their right. The free market fixes the problem when Starbuck's grows their market share by the number of open carriers Peet's turns away. And if both developed the same policy, open carriers can go elsewhere, or open their own cafe.

2) I use myself as an example above, but I would never discriminate based on race, sex, religion, disability, etc. Doing so is not good for my bottom line. More importantly, I love liberty and diversity. I think those two things make our country greater that any other.

However, my respect and love for liberty requires me to respect the preferences of others. I support the right of each person to discriminate with whom they associate/do business. While I may not agree with their motives or business strategy, that's their problem, and my opportunity.

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I'm newly signed in. I want to know if there are any events, meetings, gatherings etc. in Brentwood planned.
Thanks, Mike

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One thing you can do that gets the point across without picketing their store front is to gather at the competition's (Starbucks or another other coffee house), buy the competitors'products, take pictures and video and then email it to Peet's. That would be fun and it would be positive reinforcement...look at us, we're UOC'ing, nothing bad is happening and your competitor is getting all the business. That should get their attention.

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They have a right to a dress standard: "No shoes, no shirt, no service" That means they can ask us not to wear bananas if they like. That also means we dont have to buy from them. I will not.

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dc scarborough wrote:

They have a right to a dress standard: "No shoes, no shirt, no service" That means they can ask us not to wear bananas if they like. That also means we dont have to buy from them. I will not.

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Do they enforce this standard? Is it for health code reasons? or is it arbitrary?

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

However, I believe the law prohibiting discrimination is wrong, and I intend to work to overturn it. While I realize it's not a popular view, I believe a business owner should be permitted to reserve the right to refuse service for any reason. It's a basic liberty issue. If I run a cafe that only serves white christians, then someone will do well who opens a cafe next to mine that serves all races and religions. The free market fixes the problem.

Two notes before I get the flamethrower treatment:

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No flamethrower treatment. I agree with you 100%. Your view is the true libertarian view.

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MudCamper wrote:

...as a land owner myself, having personal experience with trespassers, it really pisses me off that people feel entitled to use MY land and push the limits and force me to call the sheriff. I think that the OC community should show a little more respect than this and HONOR ALL RIGHTS, not just the 2A.

In this case we're also talking about a business. We can speak with our pocketbooks, and take our business elsewhere. Further, we can exercise our 1A right and tell as many people as we can NOT to give any business to Peet's.

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Hear! Hear!

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You can add Von's/Safeway supermarkets to the list. I was asked to leave because someone complained to the manager. I left without making a fuss. He asked if I was law enforcement. He looked very nervous, like I was gonna shoot him if he approached me. He was holding his hands in the prayer position.

I copied Cool's email and sent it off to business.ethics@safeway.com. I will let everyone know the answer.

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However, I believe the law prohibiting discrimination is wrong, and I intend to work to overturn it. While I realize it's not a popular view, I believe a business owner should be permitted to reserve the right to refuse service for any reason. It's a basic liberty issue. If I run a cafe that only serves white christians, then someone will do well who opens a cafe next to mine that serves all races and religions. The free market fixes the problem.

Now I know someone will say "well that would result in segregation and certain minorities not being able to buy goods or receive services, etc."

50 years ago this was an issue. However, it was not due to individuals exercising discrimination. It was due to individuals and groups that covertly and overtly sabotaged businesses that served those minorities. In some places a business would be burned and the owner possibly murdered for serving "negroes."

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people are not always rational. let us say you live in a town that is 90% white and 10% black, but that a lot of the white people are racist and want to be segregated from the black folk. if there is a cafe that only serves white folk, and you open up a cafe that serves both black and white folk, you might get business from the black folk, but most of the white folk wont come to you. even if a lot of the white folk arnt racist, if enough of them are, those who are not racist will loose social status and will loose in other ways if they start associating with black folks.
humans are not always rational. racism exists and is sometimes the norm in a society. it is often costly to go against social norms.

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Damn, I like Peets coffee. Was planning on stopping by there when I visit in the summer, because I've honestly never had better coffee. Now I can't.

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MC wrote:

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How about a country that is 8% black. Yep good ol' U.S.A. If the majority of folks aren't xenophobic it won't matter.

A lot of racism was brought down by the power of a frown. A movement started or attributed to Stetson Kennedy.

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

MC wrote:

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How about a country that is 8% black. Yep good ol' U.S.A.

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Way more than 8%

12-13% is more accurate.

Sorry, folks...

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Damn you are right Hank.....12.5%

I think I might have been looking at a west coast statistic. The only one I find now says 5% for the west.

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

Damn you are right Hank.....12.5%

I think I might have been looking at a west coast statistic. The only one I find now says 5% for the west.

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Hispanic/Latino is even higher. Sorry.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

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HankT wrote:

sudden valley gunner wrote:

Damn you are right Hank.....12.5%

I think I might have been looking at a west coast statistic. The only one I find now says 5% for the west.

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Hispanic/Latino is even higher. Sorry.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

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Why be sorry? I don't care. Your ethnic background doesn't bother me. Does it bother you?