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Thread: Legality of self defense in the home?

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    From everything I've read and/or heard on the subject, if someone forces their way into my home and I shoot them, I am not guilty of any crime because it was a self-defense shooting.

    My question is, how is an in-home shoot a self defense shooting if this person has not made any threat to you? Say you find someone in your room stealing your things but they make no move towards you and they don't have a weapon that you can see. How is it legal for you to shoot them?

    I just need to make sure I have all my bases covered in case someone ever breaks in.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    EM87 wrote:
    From everything I've read and/or heard on the subject, if someone forces their way into my home and I shoot them, I am not guilty of any crime because it was a self-defense shooting.

    My question is, how is an in-home shoot a self defense shooting if this person has not made any threat to you? Say you find someone in your room stealing your things but they make no move towards you and they don't have a weapon that you can see. How is it legal for you to shoot them?

    I just need to make sure I have all my bases covered in case someone ever breaks in.
    Lethal force is only an option if your life, or the lives of others are being threatened.

    You're more than welcome to wave a gun in their face all you want, but for your sake, never shoot an unarmed man.

    -Richard-

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    So what's up with everything I've heard about shooting someone who breaks in? Did you hear the 20+ minute 911 call from the lady with the shotgun where the guy threw a table through her glass door and she shot him? He didn't have a weapon.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    EM87 wrote:
    So what's up with everything I've heard about shooting someone who breaks in? Did you hear the 20+ minute 911 call from the lady with the shotgun where the guy threw a table through her glass door and she shot him? He didn't have a weapon.
    It's a case-per-case basis.

    A jury is going to look more favorably on a 50-year old woman, with a double barrel shotgun, that was breaking down crying when she shot the intruder, than say, a 20-something man who works as a security guard.

    But, as said, better to be judged by a jury, than be dead.

    Use your BEST judgment, but don't wind up dead.

    -Richard-

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    If someone is in your house uninvited like that, you have to believe that they are there to do you harm. In my CPL class we were taught to "fight until there is no more threat" SHOOT TO KILL, that way there is only one story YOURS...

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    T.J. wrote:
    If someone is in your house uninvited like that, you have to believe that they are there to do you harm. In my CPL class we were taught to "fight until there is no more threat" SHOOT TO KILL, that way there is only one story YOURS...
    Or a drunk as heck pastor that happened to stumble into the wrong house.

    It's happened before.

    If someone were to break in, I would hold them at gunpoint. They will receive ONE warning. If they do not comply with my commands, they will be shot until they are no longer a threat to the safety of myself/my family. It's as simple as that.

    -Richard-

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    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Michigan has Castle Doctrine law. Too tired to cite atm. The moment someone breaks into your home you are allowed to use lethal force even if they're unarmed.

    Guess I'm not too tired:
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...06-PA-0311.htm

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    Shoot, Shovel, & SHUT UP!

    Inside the home without permission is um how do I say this...Dangerous to your Health.

    Shoot to Kill. I'd rather be tried by 12 than buried by 6!

    All else fails Exercise your 4th & 5th Amendment Rights


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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    conservative85 wrote:
    Shoot to Kill. I'd rather be tried by 12 than buried by 6!
    Comments like this can be used against you in the court of law during a self defense trial, if there is one.

    You NEVER EVER EVER shoot to kill in any situation. You shoot to stop the threat... With hollow points, and in vital areas.

    Yes, there's a difference. Think about it.




    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    office888 wrote:
    EM87 wrote:
    From everything I've read and/or heard on the subject, if someone forces their way into my home and I shoot them, I am not guilty of any crime because it was a self-defense shooting.

    My question is, how is an in-home shoot a self defense shooting if this person has not made any threat to you? Say you find someone in your room stealing your things but they make no move towards you and they don't have a weapon that you can see. How is it legal for you to shoot them?

    I just need to make sure I have all my bases covered in case someone ever breaks in.
    Lethal force is only an option if your life, or the lives of others are being threatened.

    You're more than welcome to wave a gun in their face all you want, but for your sake, never shoot an unarmed man.

    -Richard-
    That's not necessarily true. A man much larger then you can kill you with his fist just as he can stab you with a knife. Especially for women this wouldnt be true. Most attacks are hand to hand combat not simple B&E. The statement of dont shoot until your life is in jeopardy is all that needs to be said really.

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    *triple tap website is very slow today

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    *triple tap website is very slow today

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    malignity wrote:
    conservative85 wrote:
    Shoot to Kill.┬* I'd rather be tried by 12 than buried by 6!
    Comments like this can be used against you in the court of law during a self defense trial, if there is one.

    You NEVER EVER EVER shoot to kill in any situation. You shoot to stop the threat... With hollow points, and in vital areas.

    Yes, there's a difference. Think about it.

    ┬*
    Though you are correct legally speaking but in most cases shooting 2 to the head 1 to the chest is the most successful method of stopping a threat. In most cases stopping the threat = shoot to kill.

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    And that's the reason people that rightfully defend themselves get sent to prison for 3rd degree murder.

    Your call, do what you want. For me? I won't be taking the risk, and will never say those words. They're public, where anyone can read them. If someone dies because I had to stop them for being a threat, that's one thing, but saying that you're shooting to kill is only asking for trouble.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    malignity wrote:
    conservative85 wrote:
    Shoot to Kill. I'd rather be tried by 12 than buried by 6!
    Comments like this can be used against you in the court of law during a self defense trial, if there is one.

    You NEVER EVER EVER shoot to kill in any situation. You shoot to stop the threat... With hollow points, and in vital areas.

    Yes, there's a difference. Think about it.



    It's all hear say! Anything can be used against you in court! My Military back ground, my Army Expert Pistol Badge, The fact that I wear Army BDU's on the weekend. Well you get my point, but I do appreciate the tip.

    The last thing I worry about is what I say, & where I say it. It could go the other way too...They could say since you have an expert pistol badge that I was shooting to Mame, You intentionally wounded the Suspect to torture him blah blah blah. it's all rhetoric....You cannot win when you think like that.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    office888 wrote:
    EM87 wrote:
    From everything I've read and/or heard on the subject, if someone forces their way into my home and I shoot them, I am not guilty of any crime because it was a self-defense shooting.

    My question is, how is an in-home shoot a self defense shooting if this person has not made any threat to you? Say you find someone in your room stealing your things but they make no move towards you and they don't have a weapon that you can see. How is it legal for you to shoot them?

    I just need to make sure I have all my bases covered in case someone ever breaks in.
    Lethal force is only an option if your life, or the lives of others are being threatened.

    You're more than welcome to wave a gun in their face all you want, but for your sake, never shoot an unarmed man.

    -Richard-
    Please reconsider your thoughts about an "unarmed man"... because there is really no such thing.

    A person might not have any tool (including conventional weapons) in their hands but that does not mean they are "unarmed" since bare hands used to strangle... fists used to pummel....and feet used to kick... are all weapons when used to inflict great bodily harm or death.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    If you" LET him live" he may return and endanger your family.If he's DEAD, he can't return. Think of your family. Remember, he is not wanted there.

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    conservative85 wrote:
    The last thing I worry about is what I say, & where I say it.

    Just remember this, "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law".

    Just so you know, when I went to get my CPL the gun board held up a pile of pages they printed up from this forum. Then they said "I see you're a proponent of open carry". It might be a little harder for police to figure out who certain people are on here (matching screen names to real names), but in my case it was pretty easy.


    Just saying it's something to keep in mind.

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    EM87 wrote:
    So what's up with everything I've heard about shooting someone who breaks in? Did you hear the 20+ minute 911 call from the lady with the shotgun where the guy threw a table through her glass door and she shot him? He didn't have a weapon.
    Yes he did have a weapon the table!!!!

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    T.J. wrote:
    If you" LET him live" he may return and endanger your family.If he's DEAD, he can't return. Think of your family. Remember, he is not wanted there.
    By no means should anyone live with a close quarters round of 00 Buck, or multiple .40 caliber hallow points, and by no means do I expect someone to, should they break into my home. I don't shoot to kill, I shoot to stop the threat.

    Does my shot to the head stop the threat? Yes.

    Did I 'shoot to kill'? No, I shot to stop the threat.

    WORDING is key here, and that's exactly what I'm trying to explain. We at MOC should know more about technical wording more than anyone else.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    From the link TheSzerdi provided..

    Sec. 1. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:
    (a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is usedis in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.
    (b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).
    So, if someone is breaking into your home and you honestly and reasonably believe they are breaking into your home the law allows you to assume a reasonable belief that you are under imminent threat of death, rape, or great bodily harm.
    Go to the link TheSzerdi provided because there are exceptions that you should be aware of.
    Bronson

    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. ľ Thomas Paine

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    Listen man, I don't want to keep this thing going on and on but it sounds like we agree on where to shoot, with what to shoot and the outcome would be the same. You just don't like the words I use. You remind me of a former President we had back in the 90's, an expert at parcing words. It is what it is, I don't care who might be reading what I write.

  23. #23
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Yes, and if you defend yourself, and someone sues you, a good prosecuting attorney will be looking for things like this to use against you. The law does not permit people to 'shoot to kill'. PERIOD.

    http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-05-3...-mask-teenager

    Read this article. He obviously 'shot to kill' when the robber was no longer a threat, and now he's in prison.

    If you want to be spanked with murder, go right ahead. Your simple Miranda rights start with "You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can, and will be used against you in court of law".

    THAT INCLUDES THIS FORUM. What you say here is HIGHLY monitored by police, because police do not like OC.

    Utilize your right, remain silent. Choose your wording carefully. I'm not trying to censor you, I'm trying to protect you from your own idiocy in case you ever have to protect yourself.



    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    I think some folks are way too concerned about the danger of posting things here. Forums can be hacked, posts altered, IP addresses spoofed, IP logs changed etc...it would be very unlikely that it could be proven beyond reasonable doubt that words here were actually posted by me. Its all hearsay.

    If you shoot an intruder in your home. Go to the hospital to be checked out for hearing damage, stress and any other health problems that may have resulted from the incident. Don't speak to anyone about the incident except your attorney. You are innocent of any crime.



    ôLiberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.ö - George Bernard Shaw

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    If this were a trial where the perp lived, and he had a lawyer, I could see where they could try to use this post/site as evidence, but it won't hold up in court. If the perp is dead the state might try me but they would have to go by the Law, & the Law says I can use deadly force regardless of what I said in the past about this issue. Besides There is no proof I am writing this stuff, it could be my son on my computer, or my wife. Next it is all hear say, just because I say it, it doesn't mean it is what I really believe.

    Besides I have a legal right to use Deadly Force, & I will. So I stick my tongue out to any bureaucrat who's listening...Including King Hussein:celebrate

    I hope right now there is a white house aide/SNITCH monitoring my conversation on his little Commy White House computer.

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