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Thread: Trijicon Removes Scriptures

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    Regular Member OPS MARINE's Avatar
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    Trijicon Drops Scriptures From Sights

    The continuing saga...
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

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    I'm sure many Christians will object to this, but I certainly wouldn't want a referance to "When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, ‘I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.’ ” on my issueequipment without my permission.

    Funny thing, when my unit was getting ready to deploy for Gulf War I, every box we packed was required to have a "999" sticker on it. Soldiers being soldiers, about half the stickers went on upside-down. The resulting "Number of the Beast" and apocalypse discussions were fun to listen to.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    I am not a religious person and I usually do not want someone pushing their brand of religion down my throat. But in this case these references were used as part of the serial number on these devices. The company had been using these references as part of those numbers for decades without any complaints from anyone, until someone at the ACLU got bored ands started looking for something to do. This was NOT an attempt by Trijicon to ram Christian beliefs down any ones throat or violate anyone's rights. If you look at the function of the ACOG sighting system and read the actual meaning of the words in the referenced chapters in the bible, the references are actually quite clever marketing.

    Now all of the sudden these references are supposed to increase the risks for our soldiers by making the Jihadists think we are in a holy war. That is just crap.

    The Jihadists ALREADY think this is a holy war, that is why they are calling it a JIHAD. They are already killing our soldiers, and I can't see how it could get any more dangerous for our troops than that unless we start taking quality equipment away from them. The fact is that Jihadists want to kill the INFIDEL (us). To them an infidel is anyone who does not believe in God (Allah). But wait, Mohamed actully recognized Jesus as a beliver and a profit. It says so in the Koran. So it follows that the followers of Jesus would also have the same status as believers. It then follows that as believers Christians CANNOT be infidels. It would then follow that such an inscription would actually REDUCE the danger to our any of our soldiers who carried such an reference.

    All of this, including the logic laid out above is just crap. The owners of Trijicon have every right to put these references on their products. If the government or anyone else does not like it then they can choose not to buy or use them. Even within the military there are other sighting systems available for use by any soldiers who asks. This is just more PC crap from the same people who are telling you that we need to understand WHY anyone would want to kill any of us for our beliefs.

    The real risk to our soldiers does not come from the fear someone has tried to cram religion down their throat, or that the Jihadists will not like the serial number on their gun sight. No the real danger to our troops is that idiots would think it wise to take from them a high quality weapons sighting system for something so trivial as part of the serial number inscription. Why is nobody asking why that was attempted.

    I for one am grateful on behalf of our soldiers that Trijicon stepped up to provide a fix for a problem that only exists in the minds of idiots. However, I am thinking about buying one of their ACOG sights and INSISTING that it come WITH THE BIBLICAL REFERENCE just to help them offset the cost for this ridiculous PC nonsense, and to support their right to have whatever they want on their products if they want it there. I would then be proud to hand it to the first Marine heading over seas who would be willing to carry it into battle and shoot the first Jihadist he sees and put my card on the forehead of the corpse.

    Trijican ACOG gunsight - $1,954.00
    Assessory mounting systems - $200.00
    Helping a Marine defend the United States - Priceless.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    I assume that the owners/board of Trijicon are Christian. Why else place scripture passages on their equipment. That being assumed, they are a free company (insofar as Obama hasn't nationalized them yet). If they want to place Bible verses on their product, they are allowed. If the federal government doesn't like it, they can find a higher bidder or inferior product.

    If the owners/board are folding do to political or financial pressure, they should remember Matthew 10:33 ""But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

    No one forced them to place the Bible verses on their equipment. If they choose to, they should stand by their faith, otherwise, their faith is hollow.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    AZkopper wrote:
    I assume that the owners/board of Trijicon are Christian. Why else place scripture passages on their equipment. That being assumed, they are a free company (insofar as Obama hasn't nationalized them yet). If they want to place Bible verses on their product, they are allowed. If the federal government doesn't like it, they can find a higher bidder or inferior product.

    If the owners/board are folding do to political or financial pressure, they should remember Matthew 10:33 ""But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

    No one forced them to place the Bible verses on their equipment. If they choose to, they should stand by their faith, otherwise, their faith is hollow.
    Too bad they did. They make the best equipment out there. If they choose to show their faith and some don't like it, let them buy crap made in China.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    AZkopper wrote:
    I assume that the owners/board of Trijicon are Christian. Why else place scripture passages on their equipment. That being assumed, they are a free company (insofar as Obama hasn't nationalized them yet). If they want to place Bible verses on their product, they are allowed. If the federal government doesn't like it, they can find a higher bidder or inferior product.

    If the owners/board are folding do to political or financial pressure, they should remember Matthew 10:33 ""But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

    No one forced them to place the Bible verses on their equipment. If they choose to, they should stand by their faith, otherwise, their faith is hollow.
    THERE ARE NO BIBLE VERSES ON TRIJICON EQUIPMENT. THIS IS ACLU PROPAGANDA!

    There are REFERENCES to biblical passages, and ONLY those that could reasonably be applied to the function of the device. Moreover, they are almost totally concealed.

    For example -



    At the end of the scope's model number the letters and numbers "JN8:12" appear. This is supposed to be a reference to John 8:12 that reads in part - "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life"

    I added the bold to point out the part of this reference that is a very clever reference to the low light capabilities of this gun sights two low light reticle systems. One is tritium based and the other uses ambiant light enhancement to provide lighted sighting cross hairs without the use of batteries.

    But to see that language you would first have to realize that the "JN8:12" that is part of the number on the device was a biblical reference, and then you would either have to know the bible very well or go look it up.

    There is another reference to Corinthians 2Cor4;6 on the Tricon Reflex Sight. If you look that one up it too references lighting - "let light shine out of darkness." but I cannot find a picture of that one just now so you will have to take my word for it.

    The point is that this is a lot of crap about nothing. Even if the enemy did find these gun sights, they would not recognize these as biblical references, if they did, they would have to look them up to gather the meaning. I would not want to deprive our troops the use of these devices based on this trivial non issue.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    If the owners/board are folding do to political or financial pressure, they should remember Matthew 10:33 ""But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."


    Agreed

    I spoke with trijicon in an effort to encourage them to continue, it seems they have taken the cowards way.

    I wont be buying from them.

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    Every now and then I see an ad that displays a Christian "fish" symbol. I see two possibilities.

    1. They're usinga symbol of their religion to show that they're honest and trustworthy. I feel that's an insult to the integrity of all non-Christians, including me, and I won't do business with them.

    2. They're not really Christians, but they're usinga symbol ofChristianity to show that they're honest and trustworthy. That makes them crooks and I won't do business with them.

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    If they are your # 1 case, *I* sure would do business with them as I prefer to patronize Christian businesses (and who aren't afraid to ADMIT they are). I'll leave the "secular" businesses for you, insulting or not.

    As for Trijicon, I would do business with them, too...but I'd want those Biblical referencesNOT removed fromany sights I order.

    Besides, I'm still waiting for the Pope to call for another Crusade... ;-)

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    last I heard, trijicon is making some sort of kit, or jig, for the military to use that is designed to remove the Bible reference.

    I would take a court martial before I removed any numbers if I were there.

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    in trijicons defense. they are a business, and they make their living and income by selling products.

    so they have to look at it this way............if their highest sales contract decides to quit buying from them, is jesus or god going to write them a check for the difference??? HELL NO..........so it be dumb business not to make sure that their income doesn't go down. after all jesus or god isn't going to pay their mortage.


    it's all about business, and religion doesn't pay the bills.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    I just want to be clear. I think Darwin was right, I believe that the universe is over 10 Billion years old, Dinosaurs lived and did not share space with humans, and I would prefer to think that this life is all there is because it keeps me focused on what is important. That said I am open to other ideas should they be shown to be correct based on objective evidence. So I am an agnostic.

    That said. I believe that Trijicon should put on their equipment anything they want. For my money, I think the verses they have chosen represent the concept of their products quite well, and I WANT ONE JUST THE WAY THEY ARE.

    In my view the troops serving overseas have a lot more important things to focus on than removing a few numbers and letters from an obscure location on a piece of equipment to satisfy some fat cat lawyer sitting in an office in Washington DC, or some Atheist in a nice warm suburban house. Someone should ask the soldiers what they want.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Let's see,the military has obviouslydetermined that Trijicon is the best scope for thejob they need toperform. Now, if your life depended on it; Would you rather have the best scope for the job with Bible references, or the second best without them?

    The real question is; Would you flatly refuse to use the scopes because of the Bible verses?
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    rodbender wrote:
    Let's see,the military has obviouslydetermined that Trijicon is the best scope for thejob they need toperform. Now, if your life depended on it; Would you rather have the best scope for the job with Bible references, or the second best without them?

    The real question is; Would you flatly refuse to use the scopes because of the Bible verses?
    BINGOI!! Buy that man a cigar.


    It is nice to see people who get the actual point.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    rodbender wrote:
    Let's see,*the military has obviously*determined that Trijicon is the best scope for the*job they need to*perform. *Now, if your life depended on it; Would you rather have the best scope for the job with Bible references, or the second best without them?

    The real question is; Would you flatly refuse to use the scopes because of the Bible verses?
    yeah but you are talking about "military intelligence", which is a polite way of saying "no intelligence". so yeah....they would quite buying the best. so from that point of view, trijicon is smart for putting income over some story book phrases.

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    rodbender wrote:
    Let's see,the military has obviouslydetermined that Trijicon is the best scope for thejob they need toperform. Now, if your life depended on it; Would you rather have the best scope for the job with Bible references, or the second best without them?

    The real question is; Would you flatly refuse to use the scopes because of the Bible verses?
    This is not the issue here at all. The issue was that we didn't need another thing to help Al Queda get more members. This type of stuff is used to recruit by those wh say this is a Christian war. I don't need anymore of my Brothers and Sisters killed because of something silly like this. Removing the reference is easy, so its a non-point.

    I use EOTECH anyway.

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    yeah but you are talking about "military intelligence", which is a polite way of saying "no intelligence". so yeah....they would quite buying the best. so from that point of view, trijicon is smart for putting income over some story book phrases.
    I take offense to this. The US Intelligence system is one of the best in the world, it has saved millions of lives over the last 50 years, prevented terrorists from coming in this country and those who are brave enough to wear the uniform of the United States and serve in the Military Intelligence system deserve some of our most respect.


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    Brave? respect?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJC1unnuwds

    whatever... these guys need bible study

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    Excuse me? Are you honestly questioning the service and bravery of the people who serve this country and fight for our Freedom?

    There are very few people I don't want involved with the fight for our 2A rights, but one of them are those who vilify and attack the heroes of our Armed Forces.

    I support our Brothers and Sisters in the Armed Forces 100%, and will not stand by why anyone attacks them, under any condition.



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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Pace wrote:
    Excuse me? Are you honestly questioning the service and bravery of the people who serve this country and fight for our Freedom?

    There are very few people I don't want involved with the fight for our 2A rights, but one of them are those who vilify and attack the heroes of our Armed Forces.

    I support our Brothers and Sisters in the Armed Forces 100%, and will not stand by why anyone attacks them, under any condition.

    I'm with you on this 100%. As a veteran and an American.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Pace wrote:
    rodbender wrote:
    Let's see,the military has obviouslydetermined that Trijicon is the best scope for thejob they need toperform. Now, if your life depended on it; Would you rather have the best scope for the job with Bible references, or the second best without them?

    The real question is; Would you flatly refuse to use the scopes because of the Bible verses?
    This is not the issue here at all. The issue was that we didn't need another thing to help Al Queda get more members. This type of stuff is used to recruit by those wh say this is a Christian war. I don't need anymore of my Brothers and Sisters killed because of something silly like this. Removing the reference is easy, so its a non-point.

    I use EOTECH anyway.
    So what part of what makes the United States what it is do you plan on tossing overboard next? Perhaps we should give up Habeas Corpus? Oh wait we did that already. Maybe we should take away free speech. Oh wait, PC speak has already done that. Perhaps unrestricted ownership of firearms. Oh wait, that been done. Maybe freedome from unreasonable search. Wait that's gone too. Just how far are you willing to go to please radical Islam? Just how scared of these people are you?

    These people want to kill us because of who and what we are. The inscription on a rifle scope makes no difference in that regard. BUT everything that they make us change to avoid offending them is a small victory for them. I for one am offended at the murder of 3,000 plus people on September 11, 2001, and I don't give a rats ass about what might offend the people that committed or supported that act.

    Let a few letters on a rifle scope draw these fanatics out into the open. That is why the sights are on the rifles in the first place, so we can shoot them as they come.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Pace wrote:
    yeah but you are talking about "military intelligence", which is a polite way of saying "no intelligence". so yeah....they would quite buying the best. so from that point of view, trijicon is smart for putting income over some story book phrases.
    I take offense to this. The US Intelligence system is one of the best in the world, it has saved millions of lives over the last 50 years, prevented terrorists from coming in this country and those who are brave enough to wear the uniform of the United States and serve in the Military Intelligence system deserve some of our most respect.

    in my opinion there is a big difference between the soldiers standing at the front lines and putting their lives in harms way for us, and the big wigs who send the soldiers in harms way, and then give speeches on tv or apologize to their families without knowing what they are talking about.

    i grew up in the military and married into the military. but it's the top rank paper pushers (specially ones that haven't been to war somewhere) that i can't stand. it's also the fact of how poorly soldiers are treated nowadays by their own "government" that i can't stand.

    so i appologize, i should have worded it more specifically. my intended meaning was directed towards the desk sitters making the decisions that quite often are of no benefit, stupid, or possibly even dangerous.

    alot of people have no idea how much **** soldiers have to deal with not only overseas, but even back home after they return.

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    Brave? respect?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJC1unnuwds

    whatever... these guys need bible study
    this is by no means what i was trying to imply. yes there are unruly soldiers. but the majority of soldiers have good intentions, which is to fight for their believes, their country and us. i do not agree with that video as an example of our soldiers at all.

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    If they were fighting for freedom, then we wouldnt have to ask permission to use our rights.

    Blindly supporting any group is dangerous.

    It isnt Bible scriptures that is causing the problems overseas, it is actions of irresponsible soldiers like these that fuel the fire.

    When they get home, they will make great cops.


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    I'm willing to wager that the people that have their panties in a wad over this have never been to the sandbox to have a clue what is important.

    If I were Trijicon, I'd replace the reference with this: 61 6c 2d 71 61 65 64 61 20 73 75 63 6b 73

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