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Thread: OC for inside waist band holster?

  1. #1
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    Just wondering if there was any stipulations that would make an inside waistband holster with my shirt tucked under so it were visible not be considered OC legal. just wondering, i would rather ask than know than not and assume.

    Devery

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    If you have a CPL you don't have to worry about it. If you don't have a CPL and OC with an IWB holster is considered a "grey area". There is one member here who went to court over this issue. I'll let him explain if he wants tosince I don't know muchabout it.

    Personally I don't see the difference between having in a OWB holster and a IWB holster when OCing. You can still see the same portion of the gun that is exposed.

  3. #3
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    The AG opinion answered a question about a gun in a holster worn on the outside of clothing.

    That narrow answer was used against a member here to plead down in a case. I believe he was charged with concealed possession and plead to a lesser non-felonious charge.

    Hopefully he or his uncle will provide a few details.

    But it is still a BS charge.

    I know what a gun looks like. I don't need to see all of it. If the grip is sticking out I"m sure even the most avid anti could identify it as a gun.

    ETA: TVance answered while I was typing. I need to learn how to type faster.

  4. #4
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    thanks guys

    Devery

  5. #5
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    i have a blawkhawk nylon holster and covers most of the gun

    this http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Amb...uch,780,34.htm

    is this okay for oc, i dont have a CPL

  6. #6
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    T Vance wrote:
    If you have a CPL you don't have to worry about it. If you don't have a CPL and OC with an IWB holster is considered a "grey area". There is one member here who went to court over this issue. I'll let him explain if he wants tosince I don't know muchabout it.

    Personally I don't see the difference between having in a OWB holster and a IWB holster when OCing. You can still see the same portion of the gun that is exposed.
    It is a very expensive GRAY ( Not grey T ) area... the only thing that comes to mind when i hear this is DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!!!

  7. #7
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    THway wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    If you have a CPL you don't have to worry about it. If you don't have a CPL and OC with an IWB holster is considered a "grey area". There is one member here who went to court over this issue. I'll let him explain if he wants tosince I don't know muchabout it.

    Personally I don't see the difference between having in a OWB holster and a IWB holster when OCing. You can still see the same portion of the gun that is exposed.
    It is a very expensive GRAY ( Not grey T ) area... the only thing that comes to mind when i hear this is DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!!!
    Please explain for the OP.

  8. #8
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    THway wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    If you have a CPL you don't have to worry about it. If you don't have a CPL and OC with an IWB holster is considered a "grey area". There is one member here who went to court over this issue. I'll let him explain if he wants tosince I don't know muchabout it.

    Personally I don't see the difference between having in a OWB holster and a IWB holster when OCing. You can still see the same portion of the gun that is exposed.
    It is a very expensive GRAY ( Not grey T ) area... the only thing that comes to mind when i hear this is DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!!!
    Actually grey is acceptable. It is, by definition, a variation of gray.

    "grey." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2010.
    Merriam-Webster Online. 24 January 2010
    <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grey>
    An anecdotal illustration:

    http://www.bernzilla.com/item.php?id=232

  9. #9
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    The gray area is that the AG opinion on OC from 1930ish was that the firearm and the holster must be in plain view...

    With this being said, there was a newer AG opinion that said that as long as the firearm is discernible by the average citizen then it is OC.

    So, as it sits, carrying a firearm in an IWB holster seems to be legal according to AG opinions, it does leave a window for Wayne County Prosecutors to harass you and make you spend a @#$% load of money due to the fact that there is no CASE LAW to set precedence to the matter.

    However, This also brings up another very important question. The older military style flap holster COMPLETELY covers the firearm, thus the firearm is no longer discernible by the average citizen.


    But I can safely say that in WAYNE COUNTY, if you are a non CPL holder, THEY will come after you for concealing your holster even though the firearm itself is completely in the open.

  10. #10
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    THway wrote:
    The gray area is that the AG opinion on OC from 1930ish was that the firearm and the holster must be in plain view...

    With this being said, there was a newer AG opinion that said that as long as the firearm is discernible by the average citizen then it is OC.

    So, as it sits, carrying a firearm in an IWB holster seems to be legal according to AG opinions, it does leave a window for Wayne County Prosecutors to harass you and make you spend a @#$% load of money due to the fact that there is no CASE LAW to set precedence to the matter.

    However, This also brings up another very important question. The older military style flap holster COMPLETELY covers the firearm, thus the firearm is no longer discernible by the average citizen.


    But I can safely say that in WAYNE COUNTY, if you are a non CPL holder, THEY will come after you for concealing your holster even though the firearm itself is completely in the open.
    I've seen the 1st AG opinion which answers the question of a holster on the outside of clothing. What was the second one you refer to?

    Insofar as the flap holster, it is a holster that, if worn on the outside of your clothing would meet the criteria of the 1st AG opinion.

    What was the "technicality" that got you to plead guilty? What crime were you originally charged with and what did you ultimately plead guilty to? Was there a reason that your lawyer didn't want to take it to trial? Did he not feel that your case was "winnable"? And if so, why not? What were the circumstances of your being charged?

    This information, based on your first hand experience, can serve to greatly educate those without a CPL that wish to OC.

    It can further help to enlighten those of us that have a CPL and wish to OC in PEZs lawfully.

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    Double tap.

  12. #12
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    CV67PAT wrote
    I've seen the 1st AG opinion which answers the question of a holster on the outside of clothing. What was the second one you refer to?

    Insofar as the flap holster, it is a holster that, if worn on the outside of your clothing would meet the criteria of the 1st AG opinion.

    What was the "technicality" that got you to plead guilty? What crime were you originally charged with and what did you ultimately plead guilty to? Was there a reason that your lawyer didn't want to take it to trial? Did he not feel that your case was "winnable"? And if so, why not? What were the circumstances of your being charged?

    This information, based on your first hand experience, can serve to greatly educate those without a CPL that wish to OC.

    It can further help to enlighten those of us that have a CPL and wish to OC in PEZs lawfully.
    The second AG opinion would require me to go threw a 2 inch stack of my court transcripts. The AG opinion that I am referring to was explained by my 35th district court judge in trying to understand why I was being charged.

    What were the circumstances of your being charged?
    That is easy. I felt that because the firearm was in plain view while being carried in an IWB holster, that I was within the law and good to go. All though common sense tells us that if the firearm is in the open, and any passer by can readily see it and tell it is in fact a firearm then it is in the open. However, as we have seen, read and heard in Wayne County, you will be charged and you will be tried by the County Prosecutors Office, who has made it apparent that they have political anti gunner views.

    What crime were you originally charged with and what did you ultimately plead guilty to?
    I was originally charged with open carry of a firearm. That charge was dropped then I was charged with concealed carry without a permit. I ultimately plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of disturbing the peace.

    Was there a reason that your lawyer didn't want to take it to trial?
    Yes. Myself and my attorney both wanted to take it to trial, but decided that the Wayne County Prosecutors office would drag the case out and that the end expense would have been far to expensive for me.

    Did he not feel that your case was "winnable"?
    I felt that in Wayne County, we had a 50/50 chance due to the jury pool that we would have had. My attorney felt that we had a strong chance at winning, but again, the end cost on me was to great.

    What was the "technicality" that got you to plead guilty?
    I never plead guilty to the original felony charge. I did however, plead guilty to disturbing the peace. The reason for doing so, was because at the time, the prosecutors office were having there current and past case files being audited by another government agency, because there were accusations of corruption, and in adequate handling of case files and charges.

    Further more, to my surprise, 1 week after sentencing to the misdemeanor charge of disturbing the peace, which was at the time a 3 year restriction on CPLs, was removed from the CPL restriction list because it was to vague of a charge or conviction.

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    Thanks for your response. This proves that our legislature deliberately enacts laws that are vague for the explicit purpose of benefiting unscrupulous prosecution of the citizens.

    I'll do some additional searching for that other AG opinion on OC.

    ETA: With that change in the CPL restrictions, did you get your CPL issued?

  14. #14
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Thanks for your response. This proves that our legislature deliberately enacts laws that are vague for the explicit purpose of benefiting unscrupulous prosecution of the citizens.

    I'll do some additional searching for that other AG opinion on OC.

    ETA: With that change in the CPL restrictions, did you get your CPL issued?
    I found out about the change from Taxwhat. That man is very knowledgeable. Once I found out about the change. I will be finishing my CPL class ASAP.

  15. #15
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    so my blackhawk i posted earlier in the thread could be considered cc? dont want problems like that haha

  16. #16
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    iheartglock wrote:
    i have a blawkhawk nylon holster and covers most of the gun

    this http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Amb...uch,780,34.htm

    is this okay for oc, i dont have a CPL
    Worn on the outside of all your clothing.

    ETA: In those places where you can lawfully OC without a CPL.

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