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Thread: Open carry incident in Belle Meade Tennessee 1-23-10 5:15-5:30pm

  1. #1
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    I walked with my Navy model 1851 black powder pistol. It was loaded with hornady .44 cal ball or .454, triple 7 powder,and ccc percusion caps. One chamber was left empty for safety. It was carried in my hand as law requires.I wore a reflective vest and an arm band and ankle band for safety as it was nearly dark when I began the walk.

    I walked north on Belle Meade blvd against traffic and to the median as required by ordinance. I reached Harding road and changed direction to the south. I I almost reached the first break in the median a cop car stoped and the officer told me to put the gun down. Against my objection he searched me (inside of my pockets). He also called in the serial # of the handgun which I told him I objected to. The handgun is loaded and his fiddling around with it made me uncomfortable. Two other cops also showed up. I was held 15 minutes and released to go on my way.

    All of the Belle Meade cars are supposed to be equiped with video and audio. I'll do a public information request and post their audio and video and the names and badge numbers and police car numbers of the cops involved.



    Edited to add video and audio of complaints

    Part 1

    Part 2

    Part 3

    One of the persons complaining said I looked like a doctor and waved.

    first complaint

    The woman saw me from a car and said I was threatening her and her children because I carried a handgun like the law stated.

    griffith complaint part 1

    grifith complaint part 2

    griffith complaint part 3








    Tennessee State Law

    TCA 39-17-1314 City laws regulating guns preempt state laws if they were made before April 8, 1986.

    Belle Meade ordinances

    Title 11 Chapter 6 section 602 specifically states the carry of an army or navy model pistol is an exception, and it must be carried openly in the hand not in a holster.






    One thing nice about black powder is they can't unload it and make you play hide and go seek with the ammo.

    Here are the reports.













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    Picture removed for violation of rules

















    he he ya naughty...

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    I don't know this person but based on recent activity, I'm getting a strong aroma of "jerk". Are he and his ilk part of the solution or part of the problem?

    BTW, Navies are .36 caliber.

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    I know .44 were considered army, but the manufacturer calls this a navy because of the style.

    It has the little nipples, but since I carried it in my hand I prefered to leave one cylinder empty and the hammer was down on it.

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    I was thinking about setting it on the peg to the right of the cylinder next time as an added measure of protection, but in self defense I don't think that would work so great.



    I'm off to file my complaint with the department and request for public information.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    I was thinking about setting it on the peg to the right of the cylinder next time as an added measure of protection, but in self defense I don't think that would work so great.



    I'm off to file my complaint with the department and request for public information.
    What complaint? You don't have grounds.

    I have it on good authority that Belle Meade DOES NOT enforce the city ordinance on weapons. BMPD goes by Tn State Law.

    You could have carried your Army Colt (or any other handgun for that matter) in a holster, like anormal person, and you would not have been engaged by LEO.

    Everyone, just let this idiot fade away, OK.

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    No grounds?



    Since when do terry searches allow for interior checks of pockets?

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Hmm art censorship... yet sexual innuendos in posts are ok...

    MaybeI should post pics of some classical nudes paintings.

    Strange place around here...

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    No grounds?



    Since when do terry searches allow for interior checks of pockets?
    Maybe they would have left you alone if you painted it orange.



    -Gruu

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    What defines the army or navy pistol?

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    bohdi wrote:
    What defines the army or navy pistol?
    There is no exact definition. It is a pistol which was as used in war.

    It does not include revolvers which used cartridges or "saturday night specials".

    These laws are from the early 1870's.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    I was thinking about setting it on the peg to the right of the cylinder next time as an added measure of protection, but in self defense I don't think that would work so great.



    I'm off to file my complaint with the department and request for public information.
    What complaint? You don't have grounds.

    I have it on good authority that Belle Meade DOES NOT enforce the city ordinance on weapons. BMPD goes by Tn State Law.

    You could have carried your Army Colt (or any other handgun for that matter) in a holster, like anormal person, and you would not have been engaged by LEO.

    Everyone, just let this idiot fade away, OK.
    That may or may not be the case. Can you get the chief to write on city of belle meade letterhead that he will not enforce the ordinance?

    I carried as any normal law abiding citizen would carry.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    You could have carried your Army Colt (or any other handgun for that matter) in a holster, like anormal person, and you would not have been engaged by LEO.
    I carried as any normal law abiding citizen would carry.
    Normal:
    adj.
    1. Conforming with, adhering to, or constituting a norm, standard, pattern, level, or type; typical: normal room temperature; one's normal weight; normal diplomatic relations.
    2. Biology. Functioning or occurring in a natural way; lacking observable abnormalities or deficiencies.
    3. (Abbr. n or N) Chemistry.
      1. Designating a solution having one gram equivalent weight of solute per liter of solution.
      2. Designating an aliphatic hydrocarbon having a straight and unbranched chain of carbon atoms.
    4. Mathematics.
      1. Being at right angles; perpendicular.
      2. Perpendicular to the direction of a tangent line to a curve or a tangent plane to a surface.
      1. Relating to or characterized by average intelligence or development.
      2. Free from mental illness; sane.

    Since you did NOT carry in a normal way as a normal person would do, your look-at-me-party was seen as abnormal.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
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    By the definition I conformed to the standard. The standardisthe law. A lawabiding citizen carries an army or navy pistol openly in the hand. Therefore, a normal, law abiding citizen would carry as I did.

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    Don't you have a 1911? That's a standard "army" pistol.

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    My point in asking the question is I wonder if he would have gotten the same amount of harassment with a modern handgun that qualifies as a Army or Navy pistol by definition.

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    By definition a 1911 is not an army or navy pistol. It was understood the army or navy pistol was a pistol as was used in war (meaning the war between the states). It was large, heavy, and cap and ball.



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    bohdi wrote:
    My point in asking the question is I wonder if he would have gotten the same amount of harassment with a modern handgun that qualifies as a Army or Navy pistol by definition.
    He could have OC'd ANY pistol, holstered, and they wouldn't have bothered him. But that wouldn't have served kwik's purpose. He went fishing for a lawsuit, pure and simple.

    I have very little doubt that kwik is working real hard to make law abiding gun carriers in this state look bad. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't working for the Brady Bunch and the restaurateurs in the Nashville area that don't want to be responsible for barring HCP holders from carrying guns into their establishments. That legislation has still got to be re-written and passed. Shenanigans like kwik has been pulling lately maycause some lawmakers tohave second thoughts.

    Let's not forget something here. kwik wasn't exactly forthright with us about his escapade at Renkor Lake State Park. How do you know he's not holding back info from this little fishing excursion, too? Or maybe adding stuff that didn't happen.

  19. #19
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    bohdi wrote:
    My point in asking the question is I wonder if he would have gotten the same amount of harassment with a modern handgun that qualifies as a Army or Navy pistol by definition.
    He could have OC'd ANY pistol, holstered, and they wouldn't have bothered him. But that wouldn't have served kwik's purpose. He went fishing for a lawsuit, pure and simple.

    I have very little doubt that kwik is working real hard to make law abiding gun carriers in this state look bad. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't working for the Brady Bunch and the restaurateurs in the Nashville area that don't want to be responsible for barring HCP holders from carrying guns into their establishments. That legislation has still got to be re-written and passed. Shenanigans like kwik has been pulling lately maycause some lawmakers tohave second thoughts.

    Let's not forget something here. kwik wasn't exactly forthright with us about his escapade at Renkor Lake State Park. How do you know he's not holding back info from this little fishing excursion, too? Or maybe adding stuff that didn't happen.

    I was completely forthright. In fact the Lt. who just completed the complaint investigations into five officers in the Radnor Lake incident seemed impressed that my story and the officers's stories matched so well.

    I'll hopefully get video soon from the Belle Meade police station they have seven days to respond to my request and a reasonable amount of time after that to produce what I asked for. I'm not going to put up the audio I recorded of the Belle Meade police, because I think they may change their story and I want to catch them in a lie if they do.


    Maybe it is too hard to look up the law so I'll repost it. It is illegal to carry a holstered pistol in Belle Meade.





    11-602. Weapons and firearms generally
    . It shall be unlawful for any




    person to carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor,




    dirk, knife, blackjack, brass knucks, pistol, revolver, or any other dangerous




    weapon or instrument except the army or navy pistol which shall be carried




    openly in the hand. However, the foregoing prohibition shall not apply to




    members of the United States Armed Forces carrying such weapons as are




    prescribed by applicable regulations nor to any officer or policeman engaged in




    his official duties, in the execution of process, or while searching for or engaged




    in arresting persons suspected of having committed crimes. Furthermore, the




    prohibition shall not apply to persons who may have been summoned by such




    officer or policeman to assist in the discharge of his said duties. (Ord. 71-6,



    § 2.12. 1987 Code, § 10-212)



    Not only is it illegal according to the ordinance, butall the case law I found shows it is illegal. I have already posted the 6 case laws I found.



    Not sure why you emphasized holster. I take that to mean you do not approve of slings, scabbards, or carrying in the hand? You're going to love it when I carry my puma holstered. I was thinking about an x frame smith in a chest holster or maybe a couple of vaqueros in some nice gun leather.


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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    I was thinking about setting it on the peg to the right of the cylinder next time as an added measure of protection, but in self defense I don't think that would work so great.



    I'm off to file my complaint with the department and request for public information.
    What complaint? You don't have grounds.

    I have it on good authority that Belle Meade DOES NOT enforce the city ordinance on weapons. BMPD goes by Tn State Law.

    You could have carried your Army Colt (or any other handgun for that matter) in a holster, like anormal person, and you would not have been engaged by LEO.

    Everyone, just let this idiot fade away, OK.
    If he was within the law--they had no business of stopping him. While I don't agree with what he did--I certainly believe that if he was within the law that they should have left him alone.


    He isn't an idiot--I suspect he is trying to make a point to the cops that if he we are within the law--leave us gun owners be to go about our business and live our lives and stop treating us like we are the enemy.

  21. #21
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    kwikrnu wrote:

    Not sure why you emphasized holster. I take that to mean you do not approve of slings, scabbards, or carrying in the hand? You're going to love it when I carry my puma holstered. I was thinking about an x frame smith in a chest holster or maybe a couple of vaqueros in some nice gun leather.

    OOOOHHH but you can't do that in Belle Meade. It's iiilllleeeeeegggallllllll, remember.

    What the matter Leonard, can't findany little friends to play with at home?

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    No grounds?



    Since when do terry searches allow for interior checks of pockets?
    It's called an illegal search--perhaps you should file a complaint with the FBI and speak with an attorney.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    bohdi wrote:
    My point in asking the question is I wonder if he would have gotten the same amount of harassment with a modern handgun that qualifies as a Army or Navy pistol by definition.
    He could have OC'd ANY pistol, holstered, and they wouldn't have bothered him. But that wouldn't have served kwik's purpose. He went fishing for a lawsuit, pure and simple.
    And if that furthers the cause of gun ownership in this state, and makes the point to the cops to leave us alone if we are minding our own business then so be--I would have no qualms about pursuing litigation if my rights were violated, I would have no qualms about filing complaints with the FBI if they were violated and I certainly would have no qualms about filing with their department--though the good that would do--it is like asking the Fox to investigate himself for a break-in of the chicken coop--it is always obvious what the Fox will find when he investigates himself isn't it.

    The bottom line is--he was within the law, he was minding his own business--he was accosted by the police for no legitimate reason....

  24. #24
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:

    Not sure why you emphasized holster. I take that to mean you do not approve of slings, scabbards, or carrying in the hand? You're going to love it when I carry my puma holstered. I was thinking about an x frame smith in a chest holster or maybe a couple of vaqueros in some nice gun leather.

    OOOOHHH but you can't do that in Belle Meade. It's iiilllleeeeeegggallllllll, remember.

    What the matter Leonard, can't findany little friends to play with at home?
    I won't in Belle Meade until they change the law.

  25. #25
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    suntzu wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    No grounds?



    Since when do terry searches allow for interior checks of pockets?
    It's called an illegal search--perhaps you should file a complaint with the FBI and speak with an attorney.
    I will wait for the in car video and audio and show it to my attorney. I may not be able to afford two federal cases at once.

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