What about wine shops?

imported post

A recent post reminded me of this wuestion I've been meaning to ask. I can't seem to find any statutes or case law on this one, and wondered how YOU folks would interpret this situation...

I know you can't carry in ANY mode in NC inside an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on premise. That rules out bars and a lot of restaurants.

I also know that is perfectly legal to carry in grocery stores that sell beer or wine.
But what about "specialty" shops that sell wine and beer? Most of these "specialty" shops often have "tastings" and although they are not selling the wine, they are offering it for cinsumption on-premise. If I am carrying and go into a gourmet wine and beer shop and they are having a "tasting", but I don't partake, is it legal for me to be there with a firearm, since they are not "selling" the product, but giving it away free?

The way I read the statute, the prohibition on carrying is dependent on the SELLING for consumption on premise. Wine shops don't charge for sample tastings, and they are not intended for (or LICENSED for) selling for consumption on premise like a bar or restaurant.

I get the feeling this one is going to require a call to the AG...:banghead:

imported post

I don't think anyone but a judge can give you a final answer on this unless there's already case law. My personal interpretation is that you cannot carry if there is a tasting.

imported post

Which brings about another question.. some restaurants that do not SELL alcohol will let you bring your own in and charges you a "cork fee" for bringing your own bottle.

If theyre serving someone next to you a bottle of wine and a LEO walks in, how would that go over??

Breaking the law or perfectly lawful? Sounds like i need to make a call to the ATF..

imported post

XD, ATF is useless. It's a state issue. The AG would be the person to ask.

Looks to be within the law, but no guarantees the LEO would think so too. I would make some calls or emails to cover myself. And IANAL so don't take my word for it.

imported post

ATF would have no jurisdiction whatsoever in this situation. This is a STATE law scenario.

I need to call or write the Attorney General's office again, and get THIS one clarified I guess.

I'll take this one, folks. I'll call them Monday...

imported post

I always thought of the specialty shops, such as Total Wine as a grocery store. When it came to wine tastings at any of these places, it became a gray area for that instance, and law enforcement may consider it a clear application of the law you quoted if you were in the store with a gun.

However, in the state of North Carolina, a tasting may not be considered consumption. Why? Well, it may be based off of permits and a place that holds a retail permit such as a retail shop may still be considered a place that only sales alcohol for off-premise consumption even if it holds a wine-tasting permit and is hosting a wine tasting event.

I can only really refer you to NC Statutes under Chapter 18B: http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bychapter/chapter_18b.html

Particularly, 18B‑1001 15 * 16.

Of course, I could just be giving lots of useless information. I hope your call to the AG yields good answers for all of us.

imported post

I would default to if they have their liquor/beer license or not.
I have carried into Trader Joes on multiple occasions to find that they are doing wine tasting that day.
Since it is not being sold for consumption on premises, then I don't have a problem.
IANAL.

imported post

JDriver1.8t wrote:

I would default to if they have their liquor/beer license or not.
I have carried into Trader Joes on multiple occasions to find that they are doing wine tasting that day.
Since it is not being sold for consumption on premises, then I don't have a problem.
IANAL.

Click to expand...

I agree with Driver. If they have a license to sell and consume, it wouldn't matter if they were actually selling AND consuming at the moment you were there, carry would still be prohibited.

Likewise, if they didn't have a license to consume, only to sell, then the place wouldn't be prohibited even if they were drinking while you were carrying there.








.




.

imported post

OK, as it turns out, most of us are wrong...

I talked to the NC AGs office on this one Monday, and they told me that if a wine shop or grocery store is having a wine tasting, it is technically illegal to carry there. Here is their justification:

The Statute is worded thusly:

The AG office interprets this to mean that the carry ban with regards to alcohol consumption in an establishment is NOT determined by the nature of the type of Liquor License that such an establishment may or may not possess. It was their interpretation that the carry ban is dependent on the fact that alcohol was being consumed in that establishment.

They said that the wording of the statute is NOT "sold FOR consumption on premise", it is "sold AND consumed". The statute does not stipulate that the drinks being consumed MUST be purchased or otherwise paid for, nor does it state that the owner of such an establishment have a "sale for consumption on premise" liquor license. Apparently, a wine retailer license has a special waiver built-in which allows them to have free tastings, without having to have a "sale for consumption on premise" license like a bar or restaurant...

They said that if it is a shop where they sell alchohol in bottles, and people are consuming (even if the drinks they are consuming are free) then such an establishment meets the requirement of a "prohibited establishment", at least for the duration of the "tasting"...

Personally, I think this is BS interpretation, but then again, the law IS (like MOST NC laws) hopelessly vague and leaves a LOT of room for interpretation...

We just need to get the "restaurant ban" overturned here in NC, so it won't be an issue.

But the official word from the NC AG is that although you CAN legally carry (open or concealed) in a wine shop or grocery store that sells beer and wine, if they are having a "tasting", then that establishment magically becomes a "prohibited establishment", and then just as magically reverts to being a "lawful carry zone" when the tasting is no longer going on.

This was NOT the answer I expected, but that's the word from the NC AG.

Good luck folks, and keep your eyes open...

imported post

Thanks, Dreamer

It's like a damn minefield out there. Good to have a guide helping lead the way.

imported post

^^I'm just going to pretend I didn't read that, as there is no way to know that they are having a tasting until I am at the back of the store.

I'd rather take my chances in court.

imported post

JDriver1.8t wrote:

^^I'm just going to pretend I didn't read that, as there is no way to know that they are having a tasting until I am at the back of the store.

I'd rather take my chances in court.

Click to expand...

Until they obtain a warrant for your Internet records and then see your posts here :lol:

imported post

I've never been to a wine tasting, but I thought you were supposed to spit afterward. Not actually drink the wine. After all, there are no taste buds in the tummy.

imported post

Sam wrote:

I've never been to a wine tasting, but I thought you were supposed to spit afterward.  Not actually drink the wine.  After all, there are no taste buds in the tummy. 

Click to expand...

I had a great joke in response to that, but I think you all would look down on me if I said it on this forum.

imported post

Uh oh, I must be getting more and more mature!:shock: I never even thought of that! LOL! NOOOOOO!!
Time to go watch some more Spongebob. Adulthood, you shall never catch me!

imported post

Sam wrote:

Uh oh, I must be getting more and more mature!:shock:  I never even thought of that! LOL!   NOOOOOO!!  
Time to go watch some more Spongebob.  Adulthood, you shall never catch me!

Click to expand...

At least you have a sense of humor, that helps.

imported post

Dreamer it is Aadvark again.

I think you should be able to Carry Firearms into Establishments that have 'tasting samples' of Alcohol for consumption 'on-premesis', since those samples are not sold.

North Carolina State Law 14-269.3, as you pointed out, only prohibits Carrying Firearms to or while at... Establishments... that... [have Alcohol]... [and are]... sold and consumed... ['on-premesis'].

As long as you do not taste the Wine..., in my opinion..., it should be Legal.

In this example, the Wine, although consumed, is not sold..., therefore, the provisions of GS 14-269.3 sould not hold weight in Court.

However, I am not a Lawyer.

imported post

If there is alcohol being sold on premises and alcohol being consumed on premises it's illegal by that code. There's no definition that the alcohol being sold must be the same that's consumed.

I agree that it should not be illegal, but it absolutely is illegal under the wording of the current law.