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Thread: Charter Arms will introduce rimless revolver early 2010

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Charter Arms ad says it will introduce a rimless revolver in early 2010. Do you think it will require moon clips? The picture does not show any.

    http://charterfirearms.com/products/..._products.html
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    jbone wrote:
    Charter Arms ad says it will introduce a rimless revolver in early 2010.* Do you think it will require moon clips?* The picture does not show any.

    http://charterfirearms.com/products/..._products.html
    They were originally supposed to have released them in 2009. Market conditions supposedly prevented this. so I'm waiting waiting waiting.

    Give this a read:
    http://www.ammoland.com/2009/05/21/w...less-revolver/

    A revolver that can shoot semi-auto ammunition, without worrying about moon clips... works for me. Makes for a nice backup gun that uses the same ammunition as my semi-auto carry pistol.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    No clips works for me, clips are the reason I passed up a Taurus 905's. I'll endure the wait with you and see what they come up with. I see Charter Arms missed this year's SHOT show, still having patent issues that prevents the unveil?
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    Where is the .45 ACP revolver?

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    jbone wrote:
    No clips works for me, clips are the reason I passed up a Taurus 905's. I'll endure the wait with you* and see what they come up with. *I see Charter Arms missed this year's SHOT show, still having patent issues that prevents the unveil?
    That sucks, and yes, it appears it is patent issues: http://www.ammoland.com/2009/01/21/c...rom-shot-show/

    In fact, despite their previous statements that the 2008 election spurred so much business for their current models that they delayed releasing and manufacturing the rimless revolvers seems like, that patent issues have been the case all along or they're trying to hype up the gun so they can price it nice and high.

    Does anyone have an idea of how much these revolvers are going to cost anyway?

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    tekshogun wrote:
    Does anyone have an idea of how much these revolvers are going to cost anyway?
    Bet it won't be cheap, all there other guns have been gone up in price. They have to pay for the R&D, years over release date, I bet that will be transfered that to the consumer with-out hesitation.
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    tekshogun wrote:
    A revolver that can shoot semi-auto ammunition, without worrying about moon clips... works for me. Makes for a nice backup gun that uses the same ammunition as my semi-auto carry pistol.
    I like the moon clips. Fast reloads. Easy to prepare and transportbunch of ammo for a range visit. I have Smiths 625 and 610 and shooting them is quite satisfactory. The 625 is a perfect nightstand gun. However, the moon clips are an extra cost item (including a demooner).

    I would beverrrry interested in the new Charters.


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    jbone wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    Does anyone have an idea of how much these revolvers are going to cost anyway?
    Bet it won't be cheap, all there other guns have been gone up in price. They have to pay for the R&D, years over release date, I bet that will be transfered that to the consumer with-out hesitation.
    I don't doubt that they will very expensive, infact, I am sure they will be. If that is the case, I'll just keep my eyes open for a nice .357 Magnum. With all that said, I think their prices increased for some reason other than paying off their R&D costs.

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    They have to pay for the R&D, years over release date, I bet that will be transfered that to the consumer with-out hesitation.
    Why wouldn't R&D costs be transferred to the customer? That is a major part of almost any product and is totally part of the production cost. If they can't recoup their R&D costs then they definitely will go out of business. The logic of some consumers really amazes me at times.



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    A revolver... (any) is a mechanically antiquated weapon no matter what it fires. Unloading / reloading will always consume time... that you may not have. Some are fun to shoot... but for a primary self defense gun?If not in a calibre that will kill bears... .454/.500, they're rather 'iffy' compared to a semi-auto.

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    The Charter Arms Rimless Revolver (CARR) will not need moons, it will first come out in .40 I think then 9mm and I heard possibly .45ACP later in the year. It will bein the $475 range at full retail. Soon to go into production now that minor case ejection bugs are out and the patent stuff is firmed up. I learned at SHOT Show they will have a final industry wide announcement when it begins production with all the particulars so we will all lear about it at about the same time.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    A revolver... (any) is a mechanically antiquated weapon no matter what it fires. Unloading / reloading will always consume time... that you may not have. Some are fun to shoot... but for a primary self defense gun?If not in a calibre that will kill bears... .454/.500, they're rather 'iffy' compared to a semi-auto.
    That is a joke, right?

    Well, before anyone takes it seriously; Double Action revolvers are no more antiquated than semi-automatic handguns. They may seem old school but they aren't much older or younger than semi-autos.

    gunner roy wrote:
    The Charter Arms Rimless Revolver (CARR) will not need moons, it will first come out in .40 I think then 9mm and I heard possibly .45ACP later in the year. It will bein the $475 range at full retail. Soon to go into production now that minor case ejection bugs are out and the patent stuff is firmed up. I learned at SHOT Show they will have a final industry wide announcement when it begins production with all the particulars so we will all lear about it at about the same time.
    Pretty much what we heard last year and I have a hard time believing they will only cost $475. I mean to say, that would be bloody great! Cause then I'd buy two!

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    gunner roy wrote:
    The Charter Arms Rimless Revolver (CARR) will not need moons, it will first come out in .40 I think then 9mm and I heard possibly .45ACP later in the year. It will bein the $475 range at full retail. Soon to go into production now that minor case ejection bugs are out and the patent stuff is firmed up. I learned at SHOT Show they will have a final industry wide announcement when it begins production with all the particulars so we will all lear about it at about the same time.
    Welcome to OCDO gunner roy - not related to Huntington are you?

    Will be very interested in seeing the CARR .45 ACP when it becomes available.

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    tekshogun wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    A revolver... (any) is a mechanically antiquated weapon no matter what it fires. Unloading / reloading will always consume time... that you may not have. Some are fun to shoot... but for a primary self defense gun?If not in a calibre that will kill bears... .454/.500, they're rather 'iffy' compared to a semi-auto.
    That is a joke, right?

    Well, before anyone takes it seriously; Double Action revolvers are no more antiquated than semi-automatic handguns. They make seem old school but they aren't much older or younger than semi-autos.

    No joke... the mechanics of the design itself is antiquated. How fast canJoe Averagedrop a mag and reload a semi auto compared to a cylinder? Then... there's the obvious ammo capacity. Sam Colt may have been a genius... but Paul Mauser completely eclipsed Colt's idea in 1896.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    A revolver... (any) is a mechanically antiquated weapon no matter what it fires. Unloading / reloading will always consume time... that you may not have. Some are fun to shoot... but for a primary self defense gun?If not in a calibre that will kill bears... .454/.500, they're rather 'iffy' compared to a semi-auto.
    That is a joke, right?

    Well, before anyone takes it seriously; Double Action revolvers are no more antiquated than semi-automatic handguns. They make seem old school but they aren't much older or younger than semi-autos.

    No joke... the mechanics of the design itself is antiquated. How fast canJoe Averagedrop a mag and reload a semi auto compared to a cylinder? Then... there's the obvious ammo capacity. Sam Colt may have been a genius... but Paul Mauser completely eclipsed Colt's idea in 1896.
    I wholly disagree. Sure the mechanism of operation is different, but once again, we're talking about modern revolvers, double action revolvers. To reload them, theoretically can take as short of a time as it does for you to grab a stripper clip and push the bullets down into that Mauser. Sure, loading of more modern semi-autos with their drop-and-pop magazines is generally faster than using a speed-loader on a revolver, but may I point out that malfunctions occur far less on revolversthan semi-autos. "Failure to feed on a wheel gun?" I think not. The mechanism to turn the cylinder is so simple that there is rarely a moment it does not work. Revolvers have tolerances that semi-autos do not, such as not worrying about if your ammo is made by one manufacturer or the other or if it is a certain type of hollow point all of which give different types of semi-autos feed and cycle problems.

    There is nothing antiquated, again I must state, about the design being that double action revolvers are no more older or younger than semi-auto handguns. Speed of reload, by it self, is hardly a determinant in one being better than the other. If we were talking about single action revolvers, sure, then speed of reload is a serious factor, but there is a lot more to revolvers that make them formidable weaopns, especially over semi-autos in many instances (accuracy, reliability, etc). Training goes a long way and I've seen people fumble with magazines and slide stops. Revolvers remain a viable, capable, and useful weapon for self defense, as a backup gun or as a primary weapon.

    If the Charter Arms Rimless revolvers turn out to be all we advocates hope it to be, then I plan on owning one as a self defense weapon and sometimes myprimary carry weapon depending on the situation.

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    I would hope that they improve their quality control considerably over the qc of their undercover southpaw revolvers.
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    Rimless ammo in a revolver with no halfmoon is nothing new. I have a Ruger Blackhawk with two cylinders, one that takes .45LC and the other which takes .45ACP with no halfmoon clip. The insides of the chambers have a shoulder which is spaced to stop the edge of the casing. Works wonderfully.

    As for revolvers being "too antiquated" or "too slow to reload", whatever. I have heard it said that for the first six rounds, the revolver is the best handgun there is. After six rounds the argument begins.

    I've never seen a revolver stovepipe, fail to eject, fail to feed, etc. They can be prone to other types of malfunctions, but any mechanical device is, especially if it's junk to begin with or you don't take care of it.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    As for revolvers being "too antiquated" or "too slow to reload", whatever. I have heard it said that for the first six rounds, the revolver is the best handgun there is. After six rounds the argument begins.
    This is why I've always wanted a Smith & Wesson 327PD...
    8 rounds of .357 Magnum Hellfire and Brimstone to throw at a bad guy... or .38 Special if you opt for that. I'll take that, especially over a 7+1 1911.

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    tekshogun wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    As for revolvers being "too antiquated" or "too slow to reload", whatever. I have heard it said that for the first six rounds, the revolver is the best handgun there is. After six rounds the argument begins.
    This is why I've always wanted a Smith & Wesson 327PD...
    8 rounds of .357 Magnum Hellfire and Brimstone to throw at a bad guy... or .38 Special if you opt for that. I'll take that, especially over a 7+1 1911.
    Well, now, let's not get carried away, now...:P

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    tekshogun wrote:
    This is why I've always wanted a Smith & Wesson 327PD...
    8 rounds of .357 Magnum Hellfire and Brimstone to throw at a bad guy... or .38 Special if you opt for that. I'll take that, especially over a 7+1 1911.
    For another dollar you can have an extra scope: 8 + 1 = 1911.

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    I just do not get the attraction to moon clips.

    I grandly prefer a 1-sec reload of my 16-round 9mm magazine to a 3-second reload of a 6-shot revolver using a speedloader. Plus, the mags are much thinner and flush than a speedloader.

    I don't know how long it takes to load two moon clips, but I'd imagine it's probably on the order of 3-5 seconds if you're really proficient.


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    since9 wrote:
    I just do not get the attraction to moon clips.

    I grandly prefer a 1-sec reload of my 16-round 9mm magazine to a 3-second reload of a 6-shot revolver using a speedloader.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisHfKj2JiI

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    HankT wrote:
    since9 wrote:
    I just do not get the attraction to moon clips.

    I grandly prefer a 1-sec reload of my 16-round 9mm magazine to a 3-second reload of a 6-shot revolver using a speedloader.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisHfKj2JiI
    Terrific apples and oranges comparison, HankT. I'm an apple, and the fine shooter you referenced is the orange. And the difference between a 17-shot 9mm and a 6-shot revolver is like comparing grapes with watermellons.

    This individual did 6 and 6 rapid reload in 2.99 seconds. I can do the same, without breaking for a reload, in less time with my 9mm, which is one reason I opted for it over a revolver in the first place.

    But please don't ask me to do 6 and 6 rapid reload with a revolver in under even 6 seconds, twice this competitive shooter's time, as I probably couldn't, even with a lot of practice.

    On the other hand, the individual in your video could probably cut my 9mm shooting time in half with the same or better accuracy.

    My point is this: Comparing one shooter's prowess with one system with another shooter's prowess with another system is an apples and oranges comparison to the extreme.

    My comment about not getting "moon clips" has to do with the fact that I'm faster with a 9mm than I am with moon clips in a twelve-shot sequence. Your expert shooter would also be faster with a 9mm than he would be with moon clips in a twelve-short sequence.

    End of story, and hopefully, the end of inconsequential apples and oranges, grapes and watermelon comparisons.
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    Of course, handling a firearm in any capacity, aiming, shooting, reloading, clearing a malfunction, etc in a time you actually need to is likely not going to be done in the same amount of time one has practiced in.

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