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Thread: Guns in Bars

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I have always been miffed that I can't carry in a bar. I understand the logic behind it to a point. However, I believe that I should be able to carry anywhere as long as my behavior is lawful. I should be able to carry in a bar as long as I am not drinking or intoxicated. (I could have prefunctioned at home and already be drunk and show up at the restruarant portion of say Red Robin's). I should be able to carry at a school as long as it remains holstered, etc....

    9.41.300

    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:


    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or


    I don't drink when I go out to eat and I OC. Yet I could. I could get drunk and drive home. I would rather see section (d) struck in its entirety.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Me too but doubt it will happen anytime soon.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I rarely drink, and sometimes it's easier and quicker to go to the bar section to avoid a long wait. It's annoying to be carrying, then have the freinds I'm with decide to go to a bar.

    Figuring that it's legal to order alcohalic drinks while carrying if you're outside of the bar section, don't see how it would be much worse to still be able to carry in a bar. It's just like any other "gun free zone" where the only ones who will have the guns are criminals.

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    Arizona just passed an amendment to their carry law that allows carry in bars. Don't get me wrong on this because like most of us I favor minimal restrictions. These are most of the ones we presently have, like courts, jails, etc --- all the places listed in 9.41.300 (1)(a) and (b). I agree with those restrictions because the lawful carrier of a weapon can become the victim of a takeaway. The situation could be worse in a bar where a lawful carrier could be surrounded by a drunken hostile crowd and lose control of his/her weapon. Bad scene. The minimal restrictions we have in this state seem to be working pretty well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I say Now if you want something I oppose, take a look at SB6396. Let's choose our battles.

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    BAD Ju Ju mixing alcohol, and guns. Just plain bad Ju Ju.

    Get rid of peoples inhibitions, fuel their emotions on alcohol and give um a gun to have at hand.

    People can't even drive down the highway without having the 2 year old in their car shot. By a sober man. Now remove his inhibitions and add an emotional amplifier in alcohol, and you really have a recipe for disaster.

    No I think the NO GUNS IN BARS is a good thing.



  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Yep but the bad guys still carry into the bars.
    I don't get "drunk" I don't like the feeling of not being in control.
    The laws on the books don't stop those who get drunk at a bar and then they get into a vehicle and kill someone on the way home? And that is illegal.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I think that if there were a change, that it should be that you may not have a blood alcohol concentration above 0.XX% instead. In Nevada it's 0.10%.

    If I were a designated driver, I'd still want to carry since I'm not drinking. I drink very rarely, and when I do, the gun gets put away. You can see why I don't drink very often
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

  8. #8
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    trofwa wrote:
    BAD Ju Ju mixing alcohol, and guns. Just plain bad Ju Ju.

    Get rid of peoples inhibitions, fuel their emotions on alcohol and give um a gun to have at hand.

    People can't even drive down the highway without having the 2 year old in their car shot. By a sober man. Now remove his inhibitions and add an emotional amplifier in alcohol, and you really have a recipe for disaster.

    No I think the NO GUNS IN BARS is a good thing.

    Remove ALL gun free zones from the laws. I sure as heck don't care if you are drunk and have a gun, but if you pull it out and point it at me, be ready for the consequences. It's not about drunks with guns though. It is about allowing everyone to be able to protect themselves in ALL areas in this state.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    trofwa wrote:
    BAD Ju Ju mixing alcohol, and guns. Just plain bad Ju Ju.

    Get rid of peoples inhibitions, fuel their emotions on alcohol and give um a gun to have at hand.

    People can't even drive down the highway without having the 2 year old in their car shot. By a sober man. Now remove his inhibitions and add an emotional amplifier in alcohol, and you really have a recipe for disaster.

    No I think the NO GUNS IN BARS is a good thing.

    Soooo... why hasn't this been a problem in Virgina? 'Used to be... 'here', before there was even such a thing as a CWP that folkscarried in bars (concealed) or simply handed their gun to the barkeep 'n got it back upon leaving. That's still practiced in many places. Many still carry concealed and 'imbibe' w/o incident. Illegal? Yeah... but so is DUI.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Its all about perception, even those of us (myself included) can fall into a popular line of thought or belief. One reason why I strive to be open minded listen to examples like yours Sonora Rebel.


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
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    trofwa wrote:
    BAD Ju Ju mixing alcohol, and guns. Just plain bad Ju Ju.

    Get rid of peoples inhibitions, fuel their emotions on alcohol and give um a gun to have at hand.

    People can't even drive down the highway without having the 2 year old in their car shot. By a sober man. Now remove his inhibitions and add an emotional amplifier in alcohol, and you really have a recipe for disaster.

    No I think the NO GUNS IN BARS is a good thing.

    You're conflating banning guns in bars with banning guns while drinking. You can legally sit about 10 feet from the bar, in the non-21+ section and drink. Thus far, there have been no crazy drunken shootouts that I'm aware of, despite this *fact*.

    *edit*

    Here in Bellevue, for example, I can go to tap house and break the law if I cross on the right side of the wall to go to the bathroom. If I cross on the left side, I'm okay. I can go to the left and order dinner and a beer and be fine, but if I go to the right, I've just broken the law. It's insanity to act like this is some magical prohibition.

    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  12. #12
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    You're conflating banning guns in bars with banning guns while drinking. You can legally sit about 10 feet from the bar, in the non-21+ section and drink. Thus far, there have been no crazy drunken shootouts that I'm aware of, despite this *fact*.
    +1
    As long as one is not drinking, what is the issue if I can sit a mere 5 feet away? If I oreder a meal and drink a coke, what is the issue.






  13. #13
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    doesnt matter to me, I quit drinking. Bars to me are upholstered sewers. Havnt had a need for them sinse I became a family man. I dont go anywhere my daughter cant. (cept the mens room). Thats just me though. Get it going, what the hell, lets see what happens.

    Actually, Id rather that if someone is going to pull a gun on me that they be drunk. Less chance that they will hit me, and better chance of proving my self defence if they are intoxicated.
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    Richard6218 wrote:
    Arizona just passed an amendment to their carry law that allows carry in bars. Don't get me wrong on this because like most of us I favor minimal restrictions. These are most of the ones we presently have, like courts, jails, etc --- all the places listed in 9.41.300 (1)(a) and (b). I agree with those restrictions because the lawful carrier of a weapon can become the victim of a takeaway. The situation could be worse in a bar where a lawful carrier could be surrounded by a drunken hostile crowd and lose control of his/her weapon. Bad scene. The minimal restrictions we have in this state seem to be working pretty well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I say Now if you want something I oppose, take a look at SB6396. Let's choose our battles.
    What makes you think that would happen? If you're surrounded by a hostile crowd and in danger of losing your holstered weapon, it's time to draw.

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    I'm not really FOR the law, as I don't like "Free Murder Zones" but I wouldn't be gung ho about supporting it being changed. I'm much more in support of making the CPL age 18.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    In light of people trying to ban guns here all together leave the guns in bar issue alone for now.I don't see the need to carry in a bar anyway I just stay out.

  17. #17
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    We here are all SURE that WE wouln't be a problem but what about that nimrod that has a problem using his brain even when sober. Just add alcohol, have him get pissed at someone, and then what. There are enough fights involving pushing, shoving, and fists, in bars that I'm not sure it would be a good thing to allow unlimited carry of firearms.

    Years ago I used to drive an ambulance (before Fire Department Aid Cars in Seattle) and saw first hand what a couple of drunks can do in a bar. Bottles, pool cues, and drink glasses were the weapon of choice and rarely did I have a weekend that didn't involve a bar fight. The fights I saw the results of were bad enough but there were no fatalities. Imagine what would be happening if the bozo's fighting were armed with guns.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Exactly as I said Leave the guns in bar issue alone .My ex was a bartender for years and andto many drunks starting fights over stupid crap.Just because we have the second ammendment doesn't mean it should be a free for all.Although I do think college students of age should carry on campus.

    Besides as I said with legislators trying to take away our guns all together it isn't the time to be telling them you want to be able to carry in bars freakin stupid.Wait untill this bill gets buried then if some want to then bring it up.

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    amlevin wrote:
    We here are all SURE that WE wouln't be a problem but what about that nimrod that has a problem using his brain even when sober. Just add alcohol, have him get pissed at someone, and then what. There are enough fights involving pushing, shoving, and fists, in bars that I'm not sure it would be a good thing to allow unlimited carry of firearms.

    Years ago I used to drive an ambulance (before Fire Department Aid Cars in Seattle) and saw first hand what a couple of drunks can do in a bar. Bottles, pool cues, and drink glasses were the weapon of choice and rarely did I have a weekend that didn't involve a bar fight. The fights I saw the results of were bad enough but there were no fatalities. Imagine what would be happening if the bozo's fighting were armed with guns.
    Again, you're making a bad argument. That same person is legally allowed to carry into a restaurant and drink, so long as they don't take one stop over a line into the "21+ only" zone.

    Another example, the Wilde Rover in Kirkland. You can go into the restaurant and sit down basically anywhere, armed. You can order a beer. However, there's a 3 foot tall wall with the 21+ signs on it and the bar after it. I can stand on one side with a Guinness in hand and a pistol on hip. If I take half a step, or perhaps even lean over too far, I break the law.

    If it were going to be a huge problem, why hasn't it happened in every single restaurant where alcohol is served? Your argument does not hold up to investigative or historical scrutiny.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I agree Tawnos. At the meet we had here in Bellingham last month, the name is The Quarterback Pub. I and a few other carriers ordered a beer with our meal. And nothing happened. Plus people blame too much on drink or drugs for the actions of criminals. I have seen brawls and fights were everyone were sober.

    I don't think with all the other gun stuff going on at the moment it is the appropriate time to try to tackle this issue. If you want a drink don't go to the Bar that bans those under 21. We did and it worked out just fine.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
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    DEROS72 wrote:
    Exactly as I said Leave the guns in bar issue alone .My ex was a bartender for years and andto many drunks starting fights over stupid crap.Just because we have the second ammendment doesn't mean it should be a free for all.Although I do think college students of age should carry on campus.

    Besides as I said with legislators trying to take away our guns all together it isn't the time to be telling them you want to be able to carry in bars freakin stupid.Wait untill this bill gets buried then if some want to then bring it up.
    DEROS: EXACTLY what I was saying. Let's choose our battles. Starting a whole new fire when we have that 6396 to deal with is just not good logic.

  22. #22
    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    I'd say still illegal in a bar only, but legalize it in restaurants with a bar like Red Robin...

  23. #23
    Regular Member Lante's Avatar
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    As Trevorthebusdriver said. There is a distinct difference between a restaurant bar, and a tavern or tonk.
    I don't drink anyway, but have worked in bars. The problem is with people....those who have a drink with dinner are not looking to get drunk. However there are those who go to Azteca, Red Robin or whatever is handy to get drunk and quarrel with people (when they do this at home it is called DV)...and often those are the ones that cause trouble and have no common sense to begin with...

    My feeling - leave it alone, work at tightening up the laws for bad behavior while intoxicated, then maybe work towards this. Otherwise we will just end up with bad press.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Wow, I would say this is very interesting. Let me see if I can recap what many of you are saying.

    You would rather be on the DEFENSIVE with the legislature and not on the offensive:

    DEROS72 wrote:
    In light of people trying to ban guns here all together leave the guns in bar issue alone for now.
    I would say NO, stay on the offensive. If we just wait for the anti's to propose bills every session we will always be defending and losing our rights. This has been the strategy for decades.
    DEROS72 also wrote:

    I don't see the need to carry in a bar anyway I just stay out.
    This is an argument of the anti's: "I don't see the need to carry in a city park anyway..."
    Trofwa wrote:

    BAD Ju Ju mixing alcohol, and guns. Just plain bad Ju Ju.

    Get rid of peoples inhibitions, fuel their emotions on alcohol and give um a gun to have at hand.

    People can't even drive down the highway without having the 2 year old in their car shot. By a sober man. Now remove his inhibitions and add an emotional amplifier in alcohol, and you really have a recipe for disaster.

    I did not say to mix alcohol and guns. I am talking about the right to bear arms and self defense everywhere I travel. You made the argument for my side when you pointed to a criminal who was sober shoting a 2 year old. Certainly there are many instances of criminals shooting others in bars. For example: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...1_dige23m.html
    or
    http://www.king5.com/news/local/Thre...-81227072.html

    mostly this is food for though, perhaps to be on the offesive for the next legislative session.....

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  25. #25
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    I can carry in a restaurant and order a bunch of coronas and get shitfaced drunk, and that's legal....

    But I can't go to a bar, not drink because I'm the DD, and enjoy some friends' company..


    Makes perfect sense.


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