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Thread: Good Will

  1. #1
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Friday afternoon the other half and I were at Good Will. I have carried many times there and never have had any problems except for dirty looks and maybe a complaint to manager from an unhappy armored truck guard.

    While paying for our items by the jewelry counter in front of the main doors a man behind me asked me about carrying. And we had a good conversation. He might check this site out. But no sooner had I told him that I rarely have any encounters a female Bellingham Police officer walks in the front door and looks at me and says "Hi".

    He says well " there you go", we exchanged names, he asked for the site shook hands and he walked away. While doing this an elderly lady asked the officer something. So me and the other half walk right past the officer and leave.

    I was nervous and expecting an "excuse me sir" or "hold on" or something to that affect, and was mentally preparing myself for not handing over I.D. and respectfully declining any detention.

    I have no idea why she was there if it was a MWAG call, or the new manager don't like guns, or if it was entirely for someone else. But it made me nervous as hell and for some reason it is still bothering more than the last two consensual encounters I had.

    In no way am I cop bashing but after you have them point a gun at your head, and then detain you and berate you and threaten you with continued harassment, I think I have the right to be a little uneasy when approached by LEO's. Of course I am a stubborn cuss and will not let these events deter me from excercising my "legally protected" method of carrying. (Thanks Heresolong for that phrase)
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  2. #2
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    You know, its strange, It seems every time I am open carrying I notice everything around me in context of me open carrying. ie. shopping in a store and a code message goes out over the inner-com. I automatically think it may have something to do with me. Or walking down the street and a officer drives past my brain just automatically goes to the worst case scenario and in 99 cases out of 100 it is completely innocuous and has nothing to do with me.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Agent 47 wrote:
    You know, its strange, It seems every time I am open carrying I notice everything around me in context of me open carrying. ie. shopping in a store and a code message goes out over the inner-com. I automatically think it may have something to do with me. Or walking down the street and a officer drives past my brain just automatically goes to the worst case scenario and in 99 cases out of 100 it is completely innocuous and has nothing to do with me.
    I would agree. I have very good situational awareness, but I find that most people are oblivious as realized here...http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/35549.html
    Live Free or Die!

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am aware, but I literally open carry just about everywhere I go. And have learned for the most part they don't notice, care, are supportive or assume I am LEO.

    She walked in the front door, focused on me and then said "Hi", like I was the person she was looking for. It could be too that they are on their toes about dealing with me and that I am no pushover, so when she saw I was leaving decided not to push it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
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    SVG, this is obvious but I'll say it again cause I have been saying it for weeks to others. L.E. is hyper aware right now.

    L.E. has had their bubble popped by the recent shootings. ( I mean "no one" purposefully assassinates Police in the US and especially in Washington) At last this has been a general accepted thought among many. An officer might be killed involved in an already on going incident, but no one does it purposefully for the sole reason of bagging a officer. (not my opinion this comes from verious WA LE officers)

    Many agencies have restarted awareness training and street smarts training. Many have put out new guidelines on officer procedures for awareness. (i.e. Pause on entering any structure and assess, no groups greater then two, Officers must face the door with a wall at their back or sit in a corner booth facing the door in a restaurant. Making wearing a vest mandatory, weapon maintenance mandatory, coming on duty weapon checks and roll call inspections mandatory, etc, etc.) these are but a few of what I have heard around the state.

    These are all obvious things, but you have to realize there are alot of officers that take these for granted, or never "got it" before. Many may be the same officers that neve clean their weapon that their lives depend on or run around with no mag in their duty weapon. Or officers that won't wear a vest cause it's hot or makes them look fat, (was present for that excuse yesterday). (all of which I have seen and heard alot of recently. Before it wasn't such a big thing, quietly handled off to the side if it was a problem, now those officers are getting grilled for negligence.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I have had several encounters here in Bellingham they know who I am. The last time before all the shootings more than 8 officers showed up I posted the video here.

    This was just one officer. I am not making a judgment of anything just stating what happened and how I felt.

    You make an interesting point although it didn't cross my mind maybe my subconscious was hyper aware also due to the recent shooting.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
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    SVG I know I am more aware.

    Recently couple of months ago, I went out to meet friends, we were going to a movie and to a favorite bar. I had to stop and pick up a new windshield wiper. I was alone, unarmed(bar) and had a guy try to car jack me as I got into my car at the store.

    I fought back, sufficive to say I got some sore ribs and stained muscles.

    He got a fractured skull, 4 missing teeth, broken jaw, both wrists broken, breken right forearm and the ring and pinky of his left hand broken.

    Reliase this wasn't just me kicking the hell of of him, the only intentional injuries that I inflicted was the head and jaw from slamming my car door on his head as he leaned in to the car to grab me.

    The rest occurred while he was being restrained by me and he caused um.

    Details withheld because of pending charges on him, and civil uproar by his family already. I have a lawyer and i am for all reasonable people 'Covered" No charges are on me.

    This guy is a career criminal who was way high at the time and has already admitted he "was gonna get a ride outta me."

    I was careful before but I missed this guy completely and I should have seen him as he fllowed me from he store and circled around behind my car before attacking.

    I am now very aware of everyone around me, and any one with me walks on my left side, so as to be swept behind me with my left and engage with my right, during an incident. i sit facing the door at resturants, perfer a wall at my back. Etc. I was doing these types of thing long before the shootings, but allowed myself to get a little sloppy.

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    trofwa,

    Are you LE?

  9. #9
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    I have no idea why she was there if it was a MWAG call, or the new manager don't like guns, or if it was entirely for someone else. But it made me nervous as hell and for some reason it is still bothering more than the last two consensual encounters I had.

    In no way am I cop bashing but after you have them point a gun at your head, and then detain you and berate you and threaten you with continued harassment, I think I have the right to be a little uneasy when approached by LEO's. Of course I am a stubborn cuss and will not let these events deter me from excercising my "legally protected" method of carrying. (Thanks Heresolong for that phrase)
    Expectations.

    You're conditioned to have the encounter go in a different direction.

    You're anxious to perform (execute what you've learned).



    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    She walked in the front door, focused on me and then said "Hi", like I was the person she was looking for. It could be too that they are on their toes about dealing with me and that I am no pushover, so when she saw I was leaving decided not to push it.
    You don't have enough info to answer why the cop showed up or why she looked you in the eye and uttered a greeting.

    But you do have enough info to conclude that there weren't bad motives or bad procedures involved, whether it was a call-in or a chanceencounter.



  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Hank T, I hope your question is a sincere one and some sort of ploy.

    I never stated I felt it was bad motivation. There wasn't enough info to make any assumptions at all bad or good. Like I stated in the OP she could have been there for any other reason, but due to my experience yes I was preparing my self, like anyone should for an encounter, and hoping that if it was for me it would go well.

    HankT have you had the police point a gun at your head? Have you had anyone point a weapon at you? It might change how you perceive things too. My encounter the first time the officer did not I.D. himself and it could have gone in a very bad direction. I had the police personally threaten me with continued harassment and arrest. So yes I condition or prepare myself not for violence but to take a respectful stand for our rights, and not just 2A.

    Again I must say this isn't anti-LEO, for those who like to assume this.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
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    I'm so sorry to here that you are nearvous around cops. I wish you were with today at Olympia. I had so many great conversations with the WSP officers it really reinforced my perception of police. I guess I am very fortunate to live in Seattle were the cops know whats up. Good luck in the future, and just remember not all cops are bad.

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    seattleric007 wrote:
    I'm so sorry to here that you are nearvous around cops. I wish you were with today at Olympia. I had so many great conversations with the WSP officers it really reinforced my perception of police. I guess I am very fortunate to live in Seattle were the cops know whats up. Good luck in the future, and just remember not all cops are bad.
    I wish I had been there for that reason. I am a little leery of OCing here in Poulsbo, as I know several people who have been harassed (and threatened with illegal detention/arrest) by various officers here, and they weren't even carrying.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I have no problem with most police, WSP has been great to me. I have had inter reaction with them before.

    I had two other inter reactions since my illegal detainment that I had no problem with, I also didn't have a problem discussing or preparing myself to defend my rights with this one if it would have came to that but it just weird-ed me out for some reason this last time. Who knows why I can keep speculating but since there was no "real" inter reaction I everything is just a guess.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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