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Thread: open carry and class B license

  1. #1
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    so if you are NOT allowed to open carry in any place that has a class "B" or "class B" license, then doesn't that technically mean you can't even carry in places like pick-n-save and other grocery stores or retail stores that sell alcohol???

    sorry. just read something about that, and now i'm kinda confused.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    The thing is that you cant be served booz at pick-n-save, just "take out". So pick-n-save would not have the class B. Most stores would only want the class A, but it might be worth asking about. I asked the first time I went into a pick n save. The person I asked told me it was just class A, and all has been good so far for me...



    [*]
    Class "A" fermented malt beverage licenses allow retail sale of fermented malt beverages (beer) for consumption off the premises. Examples: grocery or convenience stores.

    [*]
    "Class A" liquor licenses allow retail sale of intoxicating liquor (including wine) for consumption off the premises. Examples: liquor stores or grocery stores with full liquor sales sections.

    [*]
    Class "B" fermented malt beverage licenses allow retail sale of fermented malt beverages (beer) for consumption on or off the premises. Examples: restaurants, "beer bars."

    [*]
    (Just a quick web cut and paste.)

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    You may carry a sidearm into an establishment that has a Class B license if you first obtain permission from the Owner or Manager. Go here http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0941.pdf and read 941.237 subsection (3) paragraph (g). It works.
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I wonder how many establishments would give permission though.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    comp45acp wrote:
    You may carry a sidearm into an establishment that has a Class B license if you first obtain permission from the Owner or Manager. Go here http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0941.pdf and read 941.237 subsection (3) paragraph (g). It works.
    This exception isn't going to work. You need to meet all of the conditions of Section cm, including lincensing under 440.26 and being "on duty".



    941.237(3):

    (cm) A private security person meeting all of the following criteria:

    1. The private security person is covered by a license or permit issued under s. 440.26.

    2. The private security person is going armed in the line of duty.

    3. The private security person is acting with the consent of the person specified in par. (d).

    (d) The licensee, owner, or manager of the premises, or any employee or agent authorized to possess a handgun by the licensee, owner, or manager of the premises.

    (e) The possession of a handgun that is unloaded and encased in a vehicle in any parking lot area.

    (f) The possession or use of a handgun at a public or private gun or sportsmen’s range or club.

    (g) The possession or use of a handgun on the premises if authorized for a specific event of limited duration by the owner or manager of the premises who is issued the Class “B” or “Class B” license or permit under ch. 125 for the premises.

    Emphsis mine.



    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    pvtschultz wrote:
    comp45acp wrote:
    You may carry a sidearm into an establishment that has a Class B license if you first obtain permission from the Owner or Manager. Go here http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0941.pdf and read 941.237 subsection (3) paragraph (g). It works.
    This exception isn't going to work.* You need to meet all of the conditions of Section cm, including lincensing under 440.26 and being "on duty".*


    *
    941.237(3):

    (cm) A private security person meeting all of the following criteria:

    1. The private security person is covered by a license or permit issued under s. 440.26.

    2. The private security person is going armed in the line of duty.

    3. The private security person is acting with the consent of the person specified in par. (d).

    (d) The licensee, owner, or manager of the premises, or any employee or agent authorized to possess a handgun by the licensee, owner, or manager of the premises.

    (e) The possession of a handgun that is unloaded and encased in a vehicle in any parking lot area.

    (f) The possession or use of a handgun at a public or private gun or sportsmen’s range or club.

    (g) The possession or use of a handgun on the premises if authorized for a specific event of limited duration by the owner or manager of the premises who is issued the Class “B” or “Class B” license or permit under ch. 125 for the premises.

    Emphsis mine.


    *
    You are misreading the law. The section you quote deals with a private security situation. Me and my wife going out for a steak do not come under that section. We fall under the areas I posted. Please read it again.
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    Here's my take on it.

    No matter whether you have permission or not, the law clearly says you can't.

    As far as having permission, that is only if you are a private security and meet the other specs, too.

    There's nothing there that says anything about an exception where the owner/manager can allow Joe Shmo go armed into their Class B establishment.

    Again, just my take on it.

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    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
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    Well, actually, the law clearly says you can if you get permission. Forget the "private security person" stuff because that is a separate exception. This section lists all the exceptions to being guilty of a Class A misdemeanor if you carry in a establishment that serves alcohol. One of those exceptions is if you are a private security person. Another one of those exceptions is if you get permission from the manager or owner.

    (2) Whoever intentionally goes armed with a handgun on any
    premises for which a Class “B” or “Class B” license or permit has been issued under ch. 125 is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (3) Subsection (2) does not apply to any of the following: (a) A peace officer. (b) Acorrectionalofficerwhilegoingarmedinthelineofduty . (c) AmemberoftheU.S.armedforcesornationalguardwhile
    going armed in the line of duty. (cm) A private security person meeting all of the following cri-
    teria: 1. The private security person is covered by a license or per-
    mit issued under s. 440.26. 2. The private security person is going armed in the line of
    duty. 3. The private security person is acting with the consent of the
    person specified in par. (d). (d) The licensee, owner, or manager of the premises, or any
    employee or agent authorized to possess a handgun by the licensee, owner, or manager of the premises.
    (e) The possession of a handgun that is unloaded and encased in a vehicle in any parking lot area.
    (f) The possession or use of a handgun at a public or private gun or sportsmen’s range or club.
    (g) The possession or use of a handgun on the premises if authorized for a specific event of limited duration by the owner or manager of the premises who is issued the Class “B” or “Class B” license or permit under ch. 125 for the premises.
    (h) The possession of any handgun that is used for decoration if the handgun is encased, inoperable or secured in a locked condi- tion.
    (i) The possession of a handgun in any portion of a hotel other than the portion of the hotel that is a tavern.
    (j) The possession of a handgun in any portion of a combina- tion tavern and store devoted to other business if the store is owned or operated by a firearms dealer, the other business includes the sale of handguns and the handgun is possessed in a place other than a tavern.
    Jim Burgess
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    comp45acp wrote:
    Well, actually, the law clearly says you can if you get permission. Forget the "private security person" stuff because that is a separate exception. This section lists all the exceptions to being guilty of a Class A misdemeanor if you carry in a establishment that serves alcohol. One of those exceptions is if you are a private security person. Another one of those exceptions is if you get permission from the manager or owner.

    (2) Whoever intentionally goes armed with a handgun on any
    premises for which a Class “B” or “Class B” license or permit has been issued under ch. 125 is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (3) Subsection (2) does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A peace officer.
    (b) Acorrectionalofficerwhilegoingarmedinthelineofduty .
    (c) AmemberoftheU.S.armedforcesornationalguardwhile
    going armed in the line of duty.
    (cm) A private security person meeting all of the following cri-
    teria: 1. The private security person is covered by a license or per-
    mit issued under s. 440.26. 2. The private security person is going armed in the line of
    duty. 3. The private security person is acting with the consent of the
    person specified in par. (d).
    (d) The licensee, owner, or manager of the premises, or any
    employee or agent authorized to possess a handgun by the licensee, owner, or manager of the premises.
    (e) The possession of a handgun that is unloaded and encased in a vehicle in any parking lot area.
    (f) The possession or use of a handgun at a public or private gun or sportsmen’s range or club.
    (g) The possession or use of a handgun on the premises if authorized for a specific event of limited duration by the owner or manager of the premises who is issued the Class “B” or “Class B” license or permit under ch. 125 for the premises.
    (h) The possession of any handgun that is used for decoration if the handgun is encased, inoperable or secured in a locked condi- tion.
    (i) The possession of a handgun in any portion of a hotel other than the portion of the hotel that is a tavern.
    (j) The possession of a handgun in any portion of a combina- tion tavern and store devoted to other business if the store is owned or operated by a firearms dealer, the other business includes the sale of handguns and the handgun is possessed in a place other than a tavern.
    I would think that the definition of theterm"Agent" would factor into this discussion?

  10. #10
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    I think generally speaking an "agent" is anyone you have authorized to act on your behalf. To give a mundane example, if you hired a decorator to choose and buy furniture for your house, they are acting as your agent when they do so.

    So basically in the case at hand, an "agent" is anyone designated by the owner, manager, etc. It can be anyone.
    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    To be an agent one must act on behalf of the owner? So it cant just be some guy that walks in? That is to say, the owner cant just sayeveryone is his agent? He must specify who the agents are. Is the term agent defined for purposes of this statute, or do we rely on the dictionary definition?

    Agent; a representative who acts on behalf of other persons or organizations

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    Parabellum wrote:
    To be an agent one must act on behalf of the owner? So it cant just be some guy that walks in? That is to say, the owner cant just sayeveryone is his agent? He must specify who the agents are. Is the term agent defined for purposes of this statute, or do we rely on the dictionary definition?

    Agent; a representative who acts on behalf of other persons or organizations
    My guess is that the word "agent" is meant to be used in the legal sense of the word, which pretty much mirrors the dictionary definition you cited. I don't see why any reason an owner cannot say everyone is his agent. I don't see anything that prohibits a bar owner from saying "Anyone who wishes may carry a handgun in my establishment, unless I say otherwise." I doubt you'd find any bar owner who will actually say that-- but maybe someday I will own a tavern-- and then you will.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
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    Subsection (3) paragraph (g) is the one that would apply to someone who got the permission of the owner/manager to carry. The part about being an "agent" would not apply to someone going out to dinner with his wife.
    Jim Burgess
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    I've had no issues carrying @ any of the Festival Food Liquor stores here in the Fox Valley. Never been to a Pick n save tho. But truth be told yea, there's no law preventing you from carrying in Liquor stores. But as I'm sure you know, bars and the like are BIG no-no's.

    -Landose-
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    comp45acp wrote:
    Subsection (3) paragraph (g) is the one that would apply to someone who got the permission of the owner/manager to carry. The part about being an "agent" would not apply to someone going out to dinner with his wife.
    The possession or use of a handgun on the premises if authorized for a specific event of limited duration by the owner or manager of the premises who is issued the Class “B” or “Class B” license or permit under ch. 125 for the premises.


    some people were having a hard time finding that i guess.

    as long as dinner counts as a specifc event... looks ok

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    Landose_theghost wrote:
    I've had no issues carrying @ any of the Festival Food Liquor stores here in the Fox Valley. Never been to a Pick n save tho. But truth be told yea, there's no law preventing you from carrying in Liquor stores. But as I'm sure you know, bars and the like are BIG no-no's.

    -Landose-
    You need to read the law. 941.237 Subsection (3) (g) It is lawful to carry in an establishment with a class B license if you get permission.
    Jim Burgess
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    comp45acp wrote:
    Landose_theghost wrote:
    I've had no issues carrying @ any of the Festival Food Liquor stores here in the Fox Valley. Never been to a Pick n save tho. But truth be told yea, there's no law preventing you from carrying in Liquor stores. But as I'm sure you know, bars and the like are BIG no-no's.

    -Landose-
    You need to read the law. 941.237 Subsection (3) (g) It is lawful to carry in an establishment with a class B license if you get permission.
    Not to be an a**hole here, but I'm pretty sure if you ask any bar owner (Your buddies excluded) if it's okay to OC there, I'd be willing to bet he's gonna give a quikno.

    -Landose-
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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