No OC in PFZs with CPL

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We need more specific information.

It sounds like you had an informal hearing in front of a magistrate.

Who did the witness examinations?

Did your attorney file an appearance on your behalf?

Better still... Who was your attorney?

Why didn't you have a pre-trial hearing?

There's just too much missing information.

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I think it was a formal hearing.

A prosecutor examined me, the officer, my witness, and the oposing witness

quote id your attorney file an appearance on your behalf?

I dont know what you mean by that.

I showed up a couple weeks ago, the prosecution diddnt have a witness, so it was ajourned untill today, where I had a formal hearing,

I think I have the terms correct, informal /formal etc...

Im sorry for missing info. Im doing my best.

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Did your attorney question any witnesses?

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Stainless, you mentioned earlier:

"Some kind soul from our site referred me to an attorney who volunteered to take the case.

Thank God. I had no way to pay the fees or fines. My thanks to those individuals."

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Yes, I said that. I am grateful, but I certainly wish this had turned out differently. She took the case free, I am on a fixed income.

I just wanted to bring this to everyones attension so they diddnt get into trouble for OC where we all thought we could.

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CV67PAT wrote:

Did your attorney question any witnesses?

Click to expand...

yes.

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Thanks. I have a bit more understanding now.

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this is why Im confused, the AG has an opinion, which I know is not law, but these two seem to contradict. 28.425o and 750.234d as follows

FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
Act 372 of 1927


28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; "premises" defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation.



Sec. 5o.

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

(

(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.




750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

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Any way to appeal something like this?

Sort of feel I got screwed here.

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Stainless, Magistrates handle state civil infractions, in which found you in violation of 28.425o. Even though the Magistrate found you guilty, itdoes not necessarily mean youractions (OC with CPL in CPZ)were actually illegal. The Magistrate, obviously, has a slight problem with CPL holders (non-LEO's) and had no intention of doing his or her homework on the issue.

If what you posted previously is true (you were OC with CPL in a CPZ), you were in compliance with MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o. Even Sgt. Deasy, among others, admitted (non-binding) this is a legal act by a CPL holder. It's going to require an appeal, legal representation and some cash to get this cleared up.

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stainless1911 wrote:

Any way to appeal something like this?

Sort of feel I got screwed here.

Click to expand...

If you have legal counsel (attorney), have him or her advise you of what it is you need to do.

And, yes you did, big time.

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

Stainless, Magistrates handle state civil infractions, in which found you in violation of 28.425o. Even though the Magistrate found you guilty, itdoes not necessarily mean youractions (OC with CPL in CPZ)were actually illegal. The Magistrate, obviously, has a slight problem with CPL holders (non-LEO's) and had no intention of doing his or her homework on the issue.

If what you posted previously is true (you were OC with CPL in a CPZ), you were in compliance with MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o. Even Sgt. Deasy, among others, admitted (non-binding) this is a legal act by a CPL holder. It's going to require an appeal, legal representation and some cash to get this cleared up.

Click to expand...

Ok, I dont have money, so appealing this will likely be impossible.

The main reason I posted this, was because the Oakland County sherriffs dept is now operating under the assumption that no one can carry in a PFZ with or without a permit, OC or CC according to 28.425o. Several officers were there today so they could learn how to handle similar cases. As it is now, I think they are going to pop anyone OC with a permit in a pistol free zone.

How do I make an appeal?

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You need to file with the Court of Appeals. You will need five copies of your brief.

Second District
Columbia Center
201 West Big Beaver Road, Suite 800
Troy, MI 48084-4127
PH: 248/524-8700

Also you can file a motion for a waiver of fees which will allow you to file without court costs.

Click on this link for a manual on filing propria persona.

http://coa.courts.mi.gov/clerkoffice/ppmanual.htm

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stainless1911 wrote:

SpringerXDacp wrote:

Stainless, Magistrates handle state civil infractions, in which found you in violation of 28.425o. Even though the Magistrate found you guilty, itdoes not necessarily mean youractions (OC with CPL in CPZ)were actually illegal. The Magistrate, obviously, has a slight problem with CPL holders (non-LEO's) and had no intention of doing his or her homework on the issue.

If what you posted previously is true (you were OC with CPL in a CPZ), you were in compliance with MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o. Even Sgt. Deasy, among others, admitted (non-binding) this is a legal act by a CPL holder. It's going to require an appeal, legal representation and some cash to get this cleared up.

Click to expand...

Ok, I dont have money, so appealing this will likely be impossible.

The main reason I posted this, was because the Oakland County sherriffs dept is now operating under the assumption that no one can carry in a PFZ with or without a permit, OC or CC according to 28.425o. Several officers were there today so they could learn how to handle similar cases. As it is now, I think they are going to pop anyone OC with a permit in a pistol free zone.

How do I make an appeal?

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You need to GET A LAWYER. Sell a gun or 2, do what you have to, get this straightened up.

Maybe call Dean Greenblatt?

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Right from the handbook

[align=left]CAUTION: The publication of this manual should not be viewed as encouragement for non-attorneys to represent themselves.
[shadow=red]Bringing a case before the Court of Appeals without an attorney is a difficult, if not impossible, task.[/shadow]You must present a [font=Arial,Arial][font=Arial,Arial]legal [/font][/font]wrong and cite [font=Arial,Arial][font=Arial,Arial]legal [/font][/font]authority to support your position – presenting a moral or ethical wrong is not sufficient. [/align]





[align=left]Prosecuting an appeal will involve a great deal of time and effort, and cause a great deal of frustration. In most cases, you have only one opportunity to have the Court hear your case. A failure to follow all the applicable procedures may result in dismissal of your case and loss of that opportunity.
Therefore, the decision to proceed without an attorney should only be made after very serious consideration.
[/align]





[align=left]

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[/align]

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I agree on the attorney. I was presenting this as information to view of what all it takes to appeal a decision. I'd sell every gun I had for an attorney. I can buy more guns but wouldn't sit back and let them take my rights away.

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sprinklerguy28 wrote:

I agree on the attorney. I was presenting this as information to view of what all it takes to appeal a decision. I'd sell every gun I had for an attorney. I can buy more guns but wouldn't sit back and let them take my rights away.

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agreed !

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If Stainless wants to take this seriously, we could possibly setup a donation fund and/or MOC may be able to help.

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I have only a 12 ga. that my dad bought for me, and my personal defense pistol. It was my first one, so I cant really sell either. There isnt anything else I own to sell. I had to ask the judge for leniency with the fine because I am on disability, and Im in the red each month. He charged me 100$ instead of the 500$ possible.

As far as Dean goes, I asked him if he might take the case from the beginning he was my first choice. He diddnt want to do it free. he offered a reduced rate, but I couldnt do it.

springer said I need 5 copies of a breif. Whats that? And to file at the second district. I thought everything from 52-2 district had to go to 1200 N. Telegraph in Pontiac. Isnt that the circuit court?

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stainless1911 wrote:

I have only a 12 ga. that my dad bought for me, and my personal defense pistol. It was my first one, so I cant really sell either. There isnt anything else I own to sell. I had to ask the judge for leniency with the fine because I am on disability, and Im in the red each month. He charged me 100$ instead of the 500$ possible.

As far as Dean goes, I asked him if he might take the case from the beginning he was my first choice. He diddnt want to do it free. he offered a reduced rate, but I couldnt do it.

Sprinklerguy28said I need 5 copies of a breif. Whats that? And to file at the second district. I thought everything from 52-2 district had to go to 1200 N. Telegraph in Pontiac. Isnt that the circuit court?

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It's a legal document that should have been presented to the court (Magistrate) explainingwhy you should not be found guilty of the charge. Something like that.