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Thread: NATIONAL PARK CARRY IS COMING.!!

  1. #1
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    Not a very busy site,but decentfor entertainment however.

    http://unitedstatesparkrangerlodge.y...e-in-NP-s.html


    After it passed:



    http://unitedstatesparkrangerlodge.y...Amendment.html

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    It sure is good to see some rangers that actually understand the issue and support the Constitution and law abiding citizens. After all, it is said that rank and file LEOs are NOT anti-gun.

    But it is also disgusting to see so many on the WRONG side of the issue.

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    Tomorrowis the day, thatI have been waiting for. I go to the parks allot and this Law just makes it better.

    I was told recently that the new law only applies to conceal carry, however it was my understanding that the firearms laws of the state prevailed in the park, so in Utah for instance OC would be fine. I plan on digging into this further and have read some info on the NPS. site that seems to side with my interpretation :

    http://home.nps.gov/news/release.htm?id=962

    If anyone knows any more specific cites please help. Thanks

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    My understanding was that you had to carry within the conformity of the CCW permit, which would mean concealed. IANAL.

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    I am finding nothing worth taking to the bank, butI think we are getting confused with the Bush law that was struck down by the judge. It appears that you will be able to carry in accordance with state law.

    http://www.sltrib.com/outdoors/ci_14403334

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    How about Lake Mead where it lies within Clark County? There areregulations against carrying in parks here.Yes I agree that does not follow state law, but for now they enforce it. Will the Park Service enforce Clark County law, or abide by state law?
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Last Feb when the Bush law was "active" I was in touch with the park ranger in Boulder City and he was preparing his officers for concealed carry folks

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    Nevada Administrative Code Chapter 407 covers firearms in State Parks.

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nac/NAC-407.html

    Relevant Code Section:
    NAC 407.105 Possession or use of weapons. (NRS 407.0475, 407.065)
    1. In any park, a person shall not:
    (a) Use a bow and arrow, slingshot or paint ball launcher;
    (b) Possess a firearm, unless:
    (1) The firearm is unloaded and inside a vehicle; or
    (2) The person in possession of the firearm has a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, and is carrying the firearm in conformity with the terms of the permit;
    (c) Discharge a weapon, including, without limitation, an air rifle, spring gun or air pistol
    So what are the TERMS of the permit? TERMS of the permit would be those rules which the permittee must follow when carrying. Let's examine each and every law related to concealed weapons:

    NRS 202.3653 - Definitions.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3657 - Application for permit; eligibility; denial or revocation of permit.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.366 - Investigation of applicant for permit; issuance or denial of permit; expiration of permit.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3662 - Confidentiality of information about applicant for permit and permittee.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3663 - Judicial review of denial of application for permit.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3665 - Duties of sheriff upon receiving notification that applicant or permittee has been charged with or convicted of crime involving use or threatened use of force or violence.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3667 - Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? YES

    NRS 202.367 - Duplicate permit; notification to sheriff of recovered permit; penalty.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3673 - Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? YES

    NRS 202.3677 - Application for renewal of permit; fees; demonstrated continued competence required.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3678 - Application for certification as qualified retired law enforcement officer; fee.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.368 - Fees to be deposited with county treasurer.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3683 - Immunity of state and local governments from civil liability.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3687 - Temporary permits.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3688 - Circumstances in which holder of permit issued by another state may carry concealed firearm in this State; holder of permit issued by another state subject to same restrictions and requirements as holder of permit issued in this State.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.3689 - Department to prepare list of states that meet certain requirements concerning permits; Department to provide copy of list to law enforcement agencies in this State; Department to make list available to public.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    NRS 202.369 - Regulations.
    Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

    So out of the 17 code sections related to concealed weapons, only 2 are related to what the permit holder must do. The rest is the bureaucratic nonsense.

    Since there are only 2 code sections to review, let's look at each of them:

    NRS 202.3667 Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.
    1. Each permittee shall carry the permit, or a duplicate issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.367, together with proper identification whenever the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed firearm. Both the permit and proper identification must be presented if requested by a peace officer.
    2. A permittee who violates the provisions of this section is subject to a civil penalty of $25 for each violation.
    This requires permit holders to carry the permit with "proper" identification. I never understood what was required of this "proper" identification since the CCW has your name, address, and picture on it already. But even if you fail to have "proper" identification with you, it's not criminal. It carries a minimal $25 civil penalty.

    NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.
    2. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building that is located on the property of a public airport.
    3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:
    (a) A public building that is located on the property of a public school or a child care facility or the property of the Nevada System of Higher Education, unless the permittee has obtained written permission to carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subparagraph (3) of paragraph (a) of subsection 3 of NRS 202.265.
    (b) A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.
    4. The provisions of paragraph (b) of subsection 3 do not prohibit:
    (a) A permittee who is a judge from carrying a concealed firearm in the courthouse or courtroom in which he presides or from authorizing a permittee to carry a concealed firearm while in the courtroom of the judge and while traveling to and from the courtroom of the judge.
    (b) A permittee who is a prosecuting attorney of an agency or political subdivision of the United States or of this State from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building.
    (c) A permittee who is employed in the public building from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building.
    (d) A permittee from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building if the permittee has received written permission from the person in control of the public building to carry a concealed firearm while the permittee is on the premises of the public building.
    5. A person who violates subsection 2 or 3 is guilty of a misdemeanor.
    6. As used in this section:
    (a) “Child care facility” has the meaning ascribed to it in paragraph (a) of subsection 5 of NRS 202.265.
    (b) “Public building” means any building or office space occupied by:
    (1) Any component of the Nevada System of Higher Education and used for any purpose related to the System; or
    (2) The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose.

    If only part of the building is occupied by an entity described in this subsection, the term means only that portion of the building which is so occupied.
    Relating this just to parks:

    1. Unless prohibited by 2 or 3, you can carry into any public building in any park.
    2. Public airports don't exist within state parks, N/A
    3a. If there is a school building or child care facility within the park, you can't carry into it. This is redundant, since NRS 202.265 already makes this illegal.
    3b. If any building within the park has metal detectors at each public entrance, or a sign prohibiting firearms at each public entrance, you cannot carry into it.
    4a. No courthouses within public parks. N/A
    4b. If you are a prosecuting attorney anywhere in the USA, you're above the law.
    4c. If you're employed in a public building within the park, even if it has metal detectors or signs, you may carry concealed within that public building.
    4d. If you have permission from the administrator of the building, you may carry.
    5. Penalty
    6. Definitions

    Therefore, the only "rule" is in NRS 202.3667, in which you must carry proper ID. NRS 202.3673 is really just an additional list of places where you can't carry.

    Here's where the CCW law starts. Read it yourself - I'm offering a free beer to the first one to find any part of the law that requires a CCW holder to carry concealed.

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Nrs/NRS-2...#NRS202Sec3653

    So my conclusion is that the "terms" of the permit merely require you to obey signs on public buildings and to carry an additional "proper" ID, which I'll just assume is your driver license.

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    Nice work Tim,

    I can see you are feeling somewhat better, I think the Beer should be on me for this one. I didn't get to Lake Mead todaylike I hoped, but I need togo to Laughlin this week, I will go over the Dam and check the training of the checkpoint guards.and see what they think about OCing off the highway, and report back.

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    I think the NAC regarding state parks only regulates lands governed by the Division of State Parks.

    I also wonder if the Division of State Parks has sufficient authority from the state legislature to make such regulations, but that is a big question in itself.

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    Here is the letter I recieved today:



    Dear Mr. ,

    Thank you for your interest in Lake Mead National Recreation Area. The
    current regulation concerning firearms at Lake Mead is as follows:

    "Beginning February 22, 2010 loaded firearms are permitted in Lake Mead
    National Recreation Area to the extent that they are permitted in the state
    parks of Nevada (NRA Chapter 202) and Arizona (ARS Title 13, Chapter 31).


    If you wish to carry a concealed weapon, you will need to possess a valid
    concealed carry permit. The permit must be issued or recognized by the stat
    that the park area is in.


    Firearms are still prohibited in federal buildings where federal employees
    work. This includes visitor centers, park administrative offices, and
    ranger stations."


    Have a great day!


    Sincerely,


    Bertha Schmalfeldt
    Division of Visitor Services
    Lake Mead National Recreation Area
    (702) 293-8990
    lame_information@nps.gov


    Now that I know where they are coming from I will ask them to show me where it says I cannot open carry.

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    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:
    Here is the letter I recieved today:



    Dear Mr. ,

    Thank you for your interest in Lake Mead National Recreation Area. The
    current regulation concerning firearms at Lake Mead is as follows:

    "Beginning February 22, 2010 loaded firearms are permitted in Lake Mead
    National Recreation Area to the extent that they are permitted in the state
    parks of Nevada (NRA Chapter 202) and Arizona (ARS Title 13, Chapter 31).


    If you wish to carry a concealed weapon, you will need to possess a valid
    concealed carry permit. The permit must be issued or recognized by the stat
    that the park area is in.


    Firearms are still prohibited in federal buildings where federal employees
    work. This includes visitor centers, park administrative offices, and
    ranger stations."


    Have a great day!


    Sincerely,


    Bertha Schmalfeldt
    Division of Visitor Services
    Lake Mead National Recreation Area
    (702) 293-8990
    lame_information@nps.gov


    Now that I know where they are coming from I will ask them to show me where it says I cannot open carry.
    I am confused....dident the lady say it was ok " loaded firearms are permitted in Lake Mead " ?????

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    That guy unknowly made a great point about why there is a need to carry in National Parks, the Rangers can not cover and protect wildlife, nonetheless humans. Killed a guy with a club, by using a gun! This proves that the parks can be dangerous and one needs to protect themselves. Ok, I am a Law Abiding Citizen and now that I can carry legal in the park I am more likely to poach? Does that make sense? Before the law was changed, I could have an unloaded gun in my car, or tent, because it was unloaded I in the heat of a family fight would have never thought to load the gun and then unload it on my family and anyone near me! Now, that I can have a loaded gun, I will be more inclined to just start shooting when ever I felt like it!

    Is this guy serious? The sad part of it is, yes he really believes the crap he is writing about. Well, it is law now and time will prove him wrong and crime in the National Parks will go down, and we can say, "See I told you so!"
    Utah Certified Concealed Firearms Permit Instructor
    NRA Pistol Instructor & RSO

    Lover of Freedom

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    OK, here are the facts.

    My mom is visiting from Idaho, even though she is in her 70's she always wants to ride on the bike.

    This National park stuff has been making me crazy, soI put her on the back and we went for a ride.

    we got to the first ranger/pay station.I bought a annual pass, there was no doubt that the ranger saw my .45 it was strong sideI had tostand to get my wallet etc.



    Mom thought the ranger was a little flustered, but if so not bad, and she agreed that he had noticed.



    that station was the Lake mead station that comes in from N. Las Vegas, so we cruised down to the Henderson side and went out of the park and re-entered, same thing, definitely noticed, not a peep.

    Well we were not leaving without going to theBoulder City entrance sowe jammed over there and they had no issues whatsoever.

    My summery is: Lake mead national Rec area got it right.

    Moms summery: The third Park Ranger was the cutest.

    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate




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    Did she like the ride??????

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    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:
    OK, here are the facts.

    My mom is visiting from Idaho, even though she is in her 70's she always wants to ride on the bike.

    This National park stuff has been making me crazy, soI put her on the back and we went for a ride.

    we got to the first ranger/pay station.I bought a annual pass, there was no doubt that the ranger saw my .45 it was strong sideI had tostand to get my wallet etc.



    Mom thought the ranger was a little flustered, but if so not bad, and she agreed that he had noticed.



    that station was the Lake mead station that comes in from N. Las Vegas, so we cruised down to the Henderson side and went out of the park and re-entered, same thing, definitely noticed, not a peep.

    Well we were not leaving without going to theBoulder City entrance sowe jammed over there and they had no issues whatsoever.

    My summery is: Lake mead national Rec area got it right.

    Moms summery: The third Park Ranger was the cutest.

    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate


    Was she shopping for her, or looking out for you?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  17. #17
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    Mom loved the ride, she is ready for another. but I gotta work tomorrow.



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    ...Firearms are still prohibited in federal buildings where federal employees
    work. This includes visitor centers, park administrative offices, and
    ranger stations...
    Gee, I wonder if that includes the restrooms! I would hate to have to unload just to unload! :?

    Seriously, I do wonder now how they would apply this law in regards to the use of restrooms on these park grounds. Not just the ones at the visitor centers, admin offices or ranger stations, but ones in campgrounds and near boat launch facilities. Employees do work in there, at times, to clean. It technically, is a federal building owned and maintained by a federal entity, as I see and understand it.

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    Hi all. I work at Lake Mead for the National Park Service. I'm a gun owner and bullseye shooter. I'm glad to hear our rangers are doing what they are supposed to do and welcoming law abiding citizens to the park.

    As far as federal facilities we aren't considering restrooms as "federal facilities." A number of puns just popped in my head with that one, but I'll leave it alone. The buildings that are classified as federal facilities will be clearly marked with a sign at each public entrance that says firearms are prohibited.

    We do have a problem with people target shooting in the recreation area.Shooting of any kind is prohibited unless you are in a designated hunting area and lawfully hunting. Peopleshoot at glass bottles and leave a big mess.Its dangerous too, we've had people target shooting and not realize there were people camping right on the other side ofthe bushes they were shooting into. A couple of months ago a couple had a bullet shatter a window in their RV. The bad apples hurt us all, so if you see it going on please report it to our dispatch center at 702-293-8998.

    If you all have any questions feel free to give me a call at 702-293-8691 or shoot me an e-mail andrew_munoz@nps.gov.

    - Andy

    Andrew Munoz
    Public Affairs Officer
    Lake Mead National Recreation Area



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    Welcome to the forum Andrew.

    I'm fairly new to the forum as well, but if you take a look around, I think you'll find that in general this is a great group of people. That is the impression that I've gathered in my short time here at least.

    I'm glad you've taken it upon yourself to visit the forum and to post here. Thank you also for taking your time to help educate us. Much has to be learned through speculation and trial and error unless somebody such as yourself takes it upon themselves to help to educate, and I personally applaud you for doing so.

    I hope you stick around the forum. I'm sure there will be other questions that come up regarding OC in our National Parks, and it would be great to hear your input. Thanks again for stopping by and informing.

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    AMunoz wrote:
    Hi all. I work at Lake Mead for the National Park Service. I'm a gun owner and bullseye shooter. I'm glad to hear our rangers are doing what they are supposed to do and welcoming law abiding citizens to the park.

    As far as federal facilities we aren't considering restrooms as "federal facilities." A number of puns just popped in my head with that one, but I'll leave it alone. The buildings that are classified as federal facilities will be clearly marked with a sign at each public entrance that says firearms are prohibited.

    We do have a problem with people target shooting in the recreation area.Shooting of any kind is prohibited unless you are in a designated hunting area and lawfully hunting. Peopleshoot at glass bottles and leave a big mess.Its dangerous too, we've had people target shooting and not realize there were people camping right on the other side ofthe bushes they were shooting into. A couple of months ago a couple had a bullet shatter a window in their RV. The bad apples hurt us all, so if you see it going on please report it to our dispatch center at 702-293-8998.

    If you all have any questions feel free to give me a call at 702-293-8691 or shoot me an e-mail andrew_munoz@nps.gov.

    - Andy

    Andrew Munoz
    Public Affairs Officer
    Lake Mead National Recreation Area

    Thanks Andrew for stopping in. And for taking time to help out. Can you answer that OC is a go?

  22. #22
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    Great post Andrew! Thank you for the clarification on restrooms and the other information.
    It has been too long since I have been out to enjoy the Lake. I haven't been back there since the pay stations opened but maybe 3 times. With the population growth we have experienced here since I have lived in Vegas (since 1973), the absolute disrespect for our recreational lands by others leaving their filth and trash behind, has not made my visits to the lake enjoyable for fishing or other activities. It sickens me to see this.
    Thank you for what you do with the park service.

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    varminter22 wrote:
    It sure is good to see some rangers that actually understand the issue and support the Constitution and law abiding citizens. After all, it is said that rank and file LEOs are NOT anti-gun.

    But it is also disgusting to see so many on the WRONG side of the issue.
    Here is couple of questions: Whydo you care if they approve? Why do you care if they understand? It's the Law and they are paid to enforce and uphold the laws. They are not your parents; they are not the President of the United States. They are just regular people like you or I that do a job like everyone else.

    Did you ask your mail man what he thinks of your right to Open Carry? Do you ask the Wal-Mart door greeter what he thinks? Of course not, that would beridiculous. Why? Because it doesn’t matter what they think. Why is so muchemphasis placed upon the opinion of LEO and the like? You don't ask aHighway PatrolOfficer what he thinks of driving 65 MPH on the freeway. Why?Because it's the Law, you haven't broken it, and it doesn't matter until you do break it.It is this exact mentality that only serves to stifle your rights. This type of mentality is what helpskeepsOpen Carry "scary" and taboo rather than acceptable. Some here are too busy seeking the approval of an individual in a uniform rather thanenjoying their right.

    It shouldn't matter what an LEO believes or thinks of the Law and your rights; it should only matter that they perform their job to the letter of the Law.They are not paid to dictatethe Law, they are paid to uphold it; their opinion is irrelevant in thecapacity of their job. Giving the impression that you're seeking their approval and or"permission" onlyemboldens those LEOthat choose an oppressive stance towards your rights.

    I don't mean to offend anyone, but please understand that your rights are not dictated by those in Police uniform. They are to be protected, respected,and upheld by those in Police uniform.

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    I think the reason we spend time making sure police officers are aware of our plans and get their feedback is so that we can avoid hassles.

    As an example, it doesn't matter what the law says - I've been promised that I'll be arrested if I enter a Clark County park. Yea, there might be false arrest charges stemming from this. Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter. The burden is on me to go find an attorney and sue them. Plenty of folks will say "sue their pants off and retire!". In reality, civil rights claims have proven, at least to me, to be a difficult and EXPENSIVE nut to crack. Every lawyer in town will represent you for free in a car accident case. I haven't found one that will do the same for civil rights.

    So I personally check for "approval" so I know what battles I need to fight. Clark County said no guns in parks, so now I'm in a lengthy battle with them, with the AG in the middle. If the AG disappoints, we turn our focus toward the state legislature.

    And when we provide police with advance notice of our plans to meet, it's not to request permission, it's to make things safer for us, so that police don't respond in force with guns drawn.

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    I'll have to check on the OC question and I'll get back to you.

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