NATIONAL PARK CARRY IS COMING.!!

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AMunoz wrote:

Hi all. I work at Lake Mead for the National Park Service. I'm a gun owner and bullseye shooter. I'm glad to hear our rangers are doing what they are supposed to do and welcoming law abiding citizens to the park.

As far as federal facilities we aren't considering restrooms as "federal facilities." A number of puns just popped in my head with that one, but I'll leave it alone. The buildings that are classified as federal facilities will be clearly marked with a sign at each public entrance that says firearms are prohibited.

We do have a problem with people target shooting in the recreation area.Shooting of any kind is prohibited unless you are in a designated hunting area and lawfully hunting. Peopleshoot at glass bottles and leave a big mess.Its dangerous too, we've had people target shooting and not realize there were people camping right on the other side ofthe bushes they were shooting into. A couple of months ago a couple had a bullet shatter a window in their RV. The bad apples hurt us all, so if you see it going on please report it to our dispatch center at 702-293-8998.

If you all have any questions feel free to give me a call at 702-293-8691 or shoot me an e-mail andrew_munoz@nps.gov.

- Andy

Andrew Munoz
Public Affairs Officer
Lake Mead National Recreation Area

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Thanks Andrew for stopping in. And for taking time to help out. Can you answer that OC is a go?

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Great post Andrew! Thank you for the clarification on restrooms and the other information.
It has been too long since I have been out to enjoy the Lake. I haven't been back there since the pay stations opened but maybe 3 times. With the population growth we have experienced here since I have lived in Vegas (since 1973), the absolute disrespect for our recreational lands by others leaving their filth and trash behind, has not made my visits to the lake enjoyable for fishing or other activities. It sickens me to see this.
Thank you for what you do with the park service.

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varminter22 wrote:

It sure is good to see some rangers that actually understand the issue and support the Constitution and law abiding citizens. After all, it is said that rank and file LEOs are NOT anti-gun.

But it is also disgusting to see so many on the WRONG side of the issue.

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Here is couple of questions: Whydo you care if they approve? Why do you care if they understand? It's the Law and they are paid to enforce and uphold the laws. They are not your parents; they are not the President of the United States. They are just regular people like you or I that do a job like everyone else.

Did you ask your mail man what he thinks of your right to Open Carry? Do you ask the Wal-Mart door greeter what he thinks? Of course not, that would beridiculous. Why? Because it doesn’t matter what they think. Why is so muchemphasis placed upon the opinion of LEO and the like? You don't ask aHighway PatrolOfficer what he thinks of driving 65 MPH on the freeway. Why?Because it's the Law, you haven't broken it, and it doesn't matter until you do break it.It is this exact mentality that only serves to stifle your rights. This type of mentality is what helpskeepsOpen Carry "scary" and taboo rather than acceptable. Some here are too busy seeking the approval of an individual in a uniform rather thanenjoying their right.

It shouldn't matter what an LEO believes or thinks of the Law and your rights; it should only matter that they perform their job to the letter of the Law.They are not paid to dictatethe Law, they are paid to uphold it; their opinion is irrelevant in thecapacity of their job. Giving the impression that you're seeking their approval and or"permission" onlyemboldens those LEOthat choose an oppressive stance towards your rights.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but please understand that your rights are not dictated by those in Police uniform. They are to be protected, respected,and upheld by those in Police uniform.

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I think the reason we spend time making sure police officers are aware of our plans and get their feedback is so that we can avoid hassles.

As an example, it doesn't matter what the law says - I've been promised that I'll be arrested if I enter a Clark County park. Yea, there might be false arrest charges stemming from this. Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter. The burden is on me to go find an attorney and sue them. Plenty of folks will say "sue their pants off and retire!". In reality, civil rights claims have proven, at least to me, to be a difficult and EXPENSIVE nut to crack. Every lawyer in town will represent you for free in a car accident case. I haven't found one that will do the same for civil rights.

So I personally check for "approval" so I know what battles I need to fight. Clark County said no guns in parks, so now I'm in a lengthy battle with them, with the AG in the middle. If the AG disappoints, we turn our focus toward the state legislature.

And when we provide police with advance notice of our plans to meet, it's not to request permission, it's to make things safer for us, so that police don't respond in force with guns drawn.

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I'll have to check on the OC question and I'll get back to you.

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AMunoz wrote:

I'll have to check on the OC question and I'll get back to you.

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Mr. Munoz,

The ONLY question that should need asked is if park personnel are aware of the laws of Nevada regarding OC and CC, and that they will administer according to this.

In other words, OC is not illegal in Nevada. The recent rule change places NPS sites under state regulation, which means that OC is legal (except for those pesky buildings) in National Parks in Nevada, and CC is legal with permit in National Parks in Nevada.

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Hi all......
I gave it a test at Lake Mead just out side of Henderson....I have a seniors lifetime pass so i stopped and ask at the gate about the OC and CC..,.I was carrying my nice Sig in a sliding belt holster with my shirt tucked in......first i talked to a nice lady....she was very nice but dident know anything about the change...I ask her to call her superior and she did so on the radio.... 35 minutes went buy and a SUV pulled up with a ranger in it...he pulled directly in front of me on my Harley...He jumped out of his car and walked directly toward me.....He said "do we have a problem here"..The lady said " no problim, and she explained to him I had ask her to call him regarding the rulings on the gun possession in the park...He turned to me and ask me "why i thought I needed a gun in the park"..
My answer to him was...I always carry my side arm for my own protection and because it is my right to do so...I took you over 30 minutes to respond to another officers call...how long would i have to wait for a 911......
He started to lecture me about Gun safety...i interrupted him..." Sir with all due respect, I am damn near 70 years old, and spent the 60's in vet- nam handling guns...I just ask a question about whether the guards here are up to date on the recent laws governing guns in the park...
He said sternly " we are... we will be posting signs later this week....:?be on your way and be safe...I started my bike and pulled around him and drove to the marina....

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NavyLT wrote:

doninvegas wrote:

Hi all......
I gave it a test at Lake Mead just out side of Henderson....I have a seniors lifetime pass so i stopped and ask at the gate about the OC and CC..,.

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Why? Is it that y'all actually want the lectures and waste of time? The Federal law is what the law is, it doesn't matter what the park administrators and/or rangers think or what their opinion is.

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Well you just dont push them aside and drive away....The lady was not going to allow me entrance to the park with a side arm...so i had her call her boss...

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I was on a mission to find out what there understanding of the new ruling was...Not asking for permission. I could have just un- tucked my shirt and rode in as i normally did...once i had ask the question to the lady she had time to notice i was waring a side arm and she explained to me, her understanding was i could not be in the park with a loaded gun.
buy having her call her supervisor...she now knows the laws have changed ...

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NavyLT wrote:

Why?  Is it that y'all actually want the lectures and waste of time?  The Federal law is what the law is, it doesn't matter what the park administrators and/or rangers think or what their opinion is.

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Because the time to find out what they know and believe, isn't when they have to cuffed for what they believe to be a felony charge. Legal or not, stopping and asking and dealing with the "lectures" and "waste of time" is far less inconvenient than being detained, possibly arrested, and having to prove your innocence in court. Much against common thought, you are most certainly NOT innocent until proven guilty, but often guilty until proven innocent. If you disbelieve that statement, look at any of the DUI laws, and any laws regarding detention for "suspicious behavior" as well as many others.

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NavyLT wrote:

I guess I am just not a big fan of asking permission from LEO to do what is legal.

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My point was, that just because it's legal, doesn't mean the LEO won't arrest you for it anyway, or at very least detain you for a lengthy period of time while they determine what the rules really are. For which there is little recourse and what recourse there is is far from swift. See Tims "Detained on the strip" (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum36/27721.html )thread for an example.

I agree with you 100% with something clear cut and existing. But since this is a new change, and the chance of misinformation and improper enforcement is high, that caution is a prudent action.

Also, make note that it's not asking permission to do what is legal as much as it is ensuring that they are aware that it IS legal. I would like to think that if the "supervisor" had informed Don that him carrying was going to be a problem, that Don would have put up some resistance to being run off (as he did with the gate keeper) and insisted on his legal right to carry.

Perhaps you're unaware of the layout of the national parks areas here. Most if not all of them, have a gate at the entrance and a booth that requires you to stop so that the ranger can ensure you have a parks sticker, or you purchase a day pass for said park. As Don said he was on his motorcycle, I can only assume that the ranger did or would have seen his weapon.