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Thread: Question from a New Forum Member

  1. #1
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    Hey, just heard about OpenCarry.org from references from the Contra Costa Times Article and I'm really glad to hear that there is a movement like this going in California. Our firearms rights have been trampled on for way too long, it's great to see people exercising their rights (at least the ones that remain).

    That aside, I recently heard from a friend who is retired PD that while open carry is entirely legal, it is possible to still get cited and detained as a public nuisance. Has anyone had any information about or history with this? I'm definitely not one to necessarily believe something an officer says, just because he's an officer.

    Thanks!
    Cameron

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    Welcome and lol! You're retired friend might be a retarded friend. Jk jk. I guess a cop can charge you with what ever they want, it's a matter of how the da and judge sees it. That is as rediculous as being charged for a publIc nuisance for talking on your phone at peets coffee. (with out a gun)

    edit. You are smart to not take legal advice from a cop. They are not required to know the law, they are as useful for legal advice as a mall security guard.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    LOL Thanks! Regarding police, that is my general thought.

    But when I looked into it a little deeper, the legal defination as per Tech Law Journal is: A public nuisance is an interference with the common right of the general public or an indefinite number of persons; an unreasonable interference with the health, safety, peace, or comfort of the community. (link)

    Considering the oh-so-common gun fearing California resident and general mass hysteria surrounding the subject, I was curious if that could fall under comfort of the community.

    But I do completely agree with you... it would be up to a DA and what they think they could get away with, because this seems like a real stretch!

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    I may be completely wrong, but I don't believe Civil Code is enforced by Law Enforcement. I know my former agency certainly didn't.

    In theory I suppose a business could attempt to sue you for some reason...

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    My neighbor is a retired San Diego PD. He thought that while driving with a gun, you had to lock it up in the trunk, no matter if it was loaded or not. Also, don't trust you gun store owners. The local one here thought I would get arrested for UOC'ing. He also told me that the city of Spring Valley prohibited carrying under any conditions.I got them both set right on the matter.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Under CA law, a "public nuisance" refers to buildings, vehicles, and firearms that are used in certain illegal activities. E.g. Illegal gambling, prostitution, bathhouses (that permit/encourage oral/anal/vaginal sex), vehicles/vessels used to transport people to gambling ships, pretty much any firearm imported/manufactured/used contrary to most felony statutes. Nowhere did I find anything about the term applying to a person or activity directly.

    I know of a few cases of "disorderly conduct" citations being issued for nothing more than carrying an exposed firearm. Each of those cases occurred in Wisconsin, and so far nobody has been convicted. (I believe two had charges dropped or were dismissed by the judge, and those two are now pursuing civil actions.)

    I guess my point is that there is simply no indication your LEO friend has any idea what he's talking about. My guess is he's just anti-OC.
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    Gundude wrote:
    My neighbor is a retired San Diego PD. He thought that while driving with a gun, you had to lock it up in the trunk, no matter if it was loaded or not. Also, don't trust you gun store owners. The local one here thought I would get arrested for UOC'ing. He also told me that the city of Spring Valley prohibited carrying under any conditions.I got them both set right on the matter.
    LOL Spring Valley, a city. It's an unincorporated community.

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    Cameron wrote:
    LOL Thanks! Regarding police, that is my general thought.

    But when I looked into it a little deeper, the legal defination as per Tech Law Journal is: A public nuisance is an interference with the common right of the general public or an indefinite number of persons; an unreasonable interference with the health, safety, peace, or comfort of the community. (link)
    Sounds like what happens when police stop you for carrying.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    A guy in Pennsylvania was charged with disorderly conduct and another charge I can't recall offhand, for open carrying and handing out pro-2A literature at a campaign rally for then-senator Obama back in 2008. Pennsylvania is an open carry state, and he was on public property. One person (out of thousands who were there) complained to a police officer, who told the guy to put his gun in his car. The guy refused, citing his rights, and was arrested on those charges. The case went to full trial, and he was found not guilty on both charges. The judge was pretty plain in his verdict that open carry was lawful and the man was not acting in an unlawful manner, and was harming no one. Cops in Wisconsin have also arrested several people on dis-con for open carry and if those cases go to trial you can expect much the same.
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    wewd wrote:
    A guy in Pennsylvania was charged with disorderly conduct and another charge I can't recall offhand, for open carrying and handing out pro-2A literature at a campaign rally for then-senator Obama back in 2008. Pennsylvania is an open carry state, and he was on public property. One person (out of thousands who were there) complained to a police officer, who told the guy to put his gun in his car. The guy refused, citing his rights, and was arrested on those charges. The case went to full trial, and he was found not guilty on both charges. The judge was pretty plain in his verdict that open carry was lawful and the man was not acting in an unlawful manner, and was harming no one. Cops in Wisconsin have also arrested several people on dis-con for open carry and if those cases go to trial you can expect much the same.
    Forgot about the Pennsylvanian! IIRC he was outside of the restricted access area near the stage (they were screaning out weapons with metal detectors). That's another great example of a trial court setting the police and prosecutor straight!

    Also, if memory serves, the Wisconsin AG issued an opinion stating that citing open carriers for disorderly conduct was a misuse of the statute. I remember that shortly after the opinion was release the Milwaukee police chief was quoted in a newspaper saying he wasn't going to follow the AG's advice, and would continue to cite open carriers. (And best I can tell all citations issued since that AG opinion have been in Milwaukee.)

    Hopefully the cops around here are less eager to be sued than the ones up there.
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