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Thread: Who needs a gun in a shop... in NYC???

  1. #1
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8484013.stm

    2 guilty in NYC shop holdup stopped by owner's gun

    The Associated Press
    Wednesday, January 27, 2010; 9:01 PM


    NEW YORK -- The two surviving members of a group of would-be stickup artists thwarted by a shotgun-wielding Harlem restaurant supply store owner have pleaded guilty to robbery.

    Prosecutors say 21-year-old Shamel McCloud and 22-year-old Bernard Witherspoon entered their pleas Wednesday. They're expected to be sentenced to five years in prison on March 11.

    They were among four men who tried to hold up the Kaplan Brothers Blue Flame Corp. in August. Seventy-two-year-old store owner Charles Augusto Jr. fired at them, wounding McCloud and Witherspoon; two other men were killed.

    McCloud's lawyer, Scott Leemon, called the episode a "drastic mistake" for McCloud. Witherspoon's lawyer didn't immediately return a telephone call.

    Augusto wasn't charged. He says he hopes McCloud and Witherspoon aren't punished too harshly and fears prison would "mess them up."


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    buster81 wrote:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8484013.stm

    2 guilty in NYC shop holdup stopped by owner's gun

    The Associated Press
    Wednesday, January 27, 2010; 9:01 PM


    NEW YORK -- The two surviving members of a group of would-be stickup artists thwarted by a shotgun-wielding Harlem restaurant supply store owner have pleaded guilty to robbery.

    Prosecutors say 21-year-old Shamel McCloud and 22-year-old Bernard Witherspoon entered their pleas Wednesday. They're expected to be sentenced to five years in prison on March 11.

    They were among four men who tried to hold up the Kaplan Brothers Blue Flame Corp. in August. Seventy-two-year-old store owner Charles Augusto Jr. fired at them, wounding McCloud and Witherspoon; two other men were killed.

    McCloud's lawyer, Scott Leemon, called the episode a "drastic mistake" for McCloud. Witherspoon's lawyer didn't immediately return a telephone call.

    Augusto wasn't charged. He says he hopes McCloud and Witherspoon aren't punished too harshly and fears prison would "mess them up."
    Not near as messed up as the other two that didn't survive. Heck, they're already messed up. If prison was like it use to be, it might straighten their butts out.

    Prison use to be hard time, making little rocks out of big rocks with a sledge hammer, all day long.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    If prison was like it use to be, it might straighten their butts out.

    Prison use to be hard time, making little rocks out of big rocks with a sledge hammer, all day long.
    thats all most prisons are these days,a playground of sorts for the criminals.

    and lifers just kill whomever whenever they feel,what the heck to they care if they get another 30 years tacked onto theyre 70 year sentence when they are already 30?

    i personally feel we need to start using death as a punishment alot more often,and without the 15 year waiting period.

    and make it a more painful way of death,those that are not afraid of death itself are often afraid of a prolonged,painful death.

    firing squads,hangings and burnings all come to mind for the big stuff,terrorism,murder...high treason,all of that.

    gruesome,not politically correct,but it WOULD get the job done.

    and for moreminor crimes,branding of the face and hands.

    rape,become a eunich(sp?) and have a steel pipe shoved up your rearand heated until your rectal walls burn.

    i really think it would work to reduce crime dramatically.

    and lifetime nationalshall issue permits that allow one to carry a handgun or longarm openly concealed anywhere other than private residences which do not wish to have them there(which will not include businesses)

    its a LONG shot,but we can dream eh?

    sorry about my long rant,i needed to talk to somebody about something,just been one of those days ya know?

    as for the new yorker,congrats on the not getting charged nor injured!more people like that in NY and it'd be alot safer.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    If prison was like it use to be, it might straighten their butts out.....
    :
    rape,become a eunich(sp?) and have a steel pipe shoved up your rearand heated until your rectal walls burn.
    :
    TF16, in the current jails, their butts will get abused, but I wouldn't say "straightened".

    Easy there lil_freak_66....:shock: I'll give you a 10 for creativity though. :-)

    I am surprised that the person that defended themself wasn't brought up on gun charges. After all I thought it was illegal to have a gun in NYC. I bet those 4 yutes were thinking the same thing. ;-)

    And yes I agree that ban on "cruel and unusual punishment" shouldn't include 3 square meals a day, a weight room and TV.

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    lil_freak_66,
    Your name says it all but I stand behind your position and have pretty much said exactly that before. My thought is if you kill someone in a cruel and unusual way, well now your out of luck. JUST HAD AN IDEA, its a new reality show, WHEEL O DEATH. Here is how you play, get bunch of rapists, murders, etc. And put the stuff they did on a wheel and they each get to take a spin, and what it lands on is their punishment.... with ONE called flight home, so they think it like get out of jail free except the first person that wins it finds out you only get your pardon after jumping from the airplane without a chute, over a mine field.
    I agree with 45acpforme about the 3 meals and TV. Isn't it great the tax dollars I pay from my minimum wage job go for a higher standard of living than most people I know.


    Side note, people complain about getting stuck with the yellow party plates in Ohio for DUI. I like El Salvador, death by firing squad first offense because after a few close calls were once barely missed a mail box , and another where I hit a field at 55mph and spun around a bit trying to regain control because I needed to get out of the way of a drunk who was in my lane in a hurry.

    Yet another reason why our deputies are useless, I was mile from the sheriffs station, so I got back on road and did 90mph (no cell phone at time). I told them what happened since it was oh about 2am when the bars start letting out, but I needed a plate # because a ford style truck that weaving into oncoming traffic headed east on RT2 wasn't a good enough description. We have way to many traffic fatalities out here because of drunk driving.



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    i agree with lil_freak. we need medival torture/death punishments back.

    hell in some countries nowadays they still have punishment that makes even the most hardened criminals go "mmmhhhh".


    seen a video ones of a child molester that was caught in the act by a village. they bend him over and stuck a large wooden pole up his rear and then stood it upright. his weight caused him to slide down the pole until it came out of his shoulder. they left him there to die and for EVERYBODY to see.

    bet that made a few people think twice.

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    I can tell you first hand Jails are cuddle farms.

    Inmates getting hit with 10 or more years just laugh. Just had an inmate about 25 and he was looking at 15 years.....didn't bother him at all.

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    I can tell you first hand Jails are cuddle farms.

    Inmates getting hit with 10 or more years just laugh. Just had an inmate about 25 and he was looking at 15 years.....didn't bother him at all.
    why should it. no hard labor, you get free room and board, cable tv, library, etc..etc..etc..


    it's kinda like living on the outside just without bills.

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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    If prison was like it use to be, it might straighten their butts out.

    Prison use to be hard time, making little rocks out of big rocks with a sledge hammer, all day long.
    thats all most prisons are these days,a playground of sorts for the criminals.

    and lifers just kill whomever whenever they feel,what the heck to they care if they get another 30 years tacked onto theyre 70 year sentence when they are already 30?

    i personally feel we need to start using death as a punishment alot more often,and without the 15 year waiting period.

    and make it a more painful way of death,those that are not afraid of death itself are often afraid of a prolonged,painful death.

    firing squads,hangings and burnings all come to mind for the big stuff,terrorism,murder...high treason,all of that.

    gruesome,not politically correct,but it WOULD get the job done.

    and for moreminor crimes,branding of the face and hands.

    rape,become a eunich(sp?) and have a steel pipe shoved up your rearand heated until your rectal walls burn.

    i really think it would work to reduce crime dramatically.

    and lifetime nationalshall issue permits that allow one to carry a handgun or longarm openly concealed anywhere other than private residences which do not wish to have them there(which will not include businesses)

    its a LONG shot,but we can dream eh?

    sorry about my long rant,i needed to talk to somebody about something,just been one of those days ya know?

    as for the new yorker,congrats on the not getting charged nor injured!more people like that in NY and it'd be alot safer.
    Simply you put a cap of no more then 6 years for a appeal process after that time is up the state has 24 hours to put the SOB to death. That and If i ever got elected I would find someway to pass a law that any violent crime or a crime that has a deadly weapon used automatically opens up the death penalty. That anyone who is given a life sentence that commits another violent act while in prison gos to the death chamber and put to death within 72 hours after their prison trial. Personal I would love to see any person who is sentenced to life in prison get automatically enrolled in the death row system and are put to death within a 24 hour period after their 6 year mark. Yet this is only a dream we have way to many weak, thin skinned morons in this country who feel sorry for a pedophiles, rapist, murders, ect.

    I am also a fan of what India does for robbers and rapist but again we go back to the liberals who would never allow it to happen. Kinda barbaric but it works.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    what does india do???

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    Chop Chop.:shock:

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    scorpio_vette wrote:
    what does india do???
    One is type is
    Murgha is a form of corporal punishment used in India and other country's, primarily in educational institutions and by the police for petty crimes and sexually harassment. This is done by squatting, and then bringing the arms between the legs and firmly holding the ears. It can become very painful after a few minutes, and can also be used as a position for spanking, though it is rarely used.


    Standing murghaIn sitting murgha, the person is allowed to rest on his arms, i.e the buttocks can be brought down. This is milder than the standing Murgha, and can be bearable for longer durations. This punishment is given when the administrator wants to punish a person for a long time.

    Murgha parade In murgha parade, the person has to walk while in the standing or sitting murgha position. A longer distance can be covered in the standing murgha position, but it is extremely tiring for legs, hands and back. This punishment can be made harsher by making the person parade under the sun. If done properly, it will hurt the ears also, because of irregular movements.
    Heels touching murgha In this the heels of the person should remain in contact. It can also be either sitting or standing. This is a very severe form of murgha.


    Now in certain part of India they still practice the teachings of Islam which teaches the cutting off of hands and feet. "As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power." - Quran 5:38
    And this is done for all to see to set an example for others, lets just say robbery's are not very often in areas where they enforce this law.

    I know for a fact they still continue to do this. When I was living in CA we had neighbors who moved from India to the US. My friends farther was missing three fingers and I asked him what had happened to him and I was told he tried stealing from a shop keeper as a kid and cutting of his fingers was his punishment.


    While the Qur’an does state the hands of thieves should be cut off, it must be noted that most Muslim countries pervert Fiqh (human application of shariah). A thief cannot simply just be brought out into the open and have his hands, and feet cut off. First the punishment has to fit the crime. Simple thievery, stealing bicycles, food, etc doesn’t receive the maximum punishment(amputation).

    In order for a thief to receive that punishment the crime has to be such that it causes people in that particular society to suffer to the extent their way of life is affected, or it causes a loss of life, or some form of oppression, otherwise a thief would get imprisonment, in jail, or prison. It would be up to the judge hearing the case, and the variables relating to that particular crime. The Muslim countries that have applied amputation for any form of theft, such as Saudi Arabia practice an extreme form of Fiqh, and shouldn’t be an example for Shariah as a whole.

    Should it be done here, I am all for shooting the sob on site personally. With that being said, I would have no issue with them cutting off the fingers or hands off a repeat thief. Now it should not be done for a first offense, everyone makes a mistake, but those who make it a habit sure, chop chop.:shock:

    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    i'm totally there with ya.


    i'm totally for amputation of repeat theft offenders, twig and berry amputation for rape and other sexual assaults.

    and damn i wish i could find that video of the guy being impaled on a pole for raping a child.


    i totally agree and believe that if we did some serious punishment and did it publicly, that people would think twice.

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    Double post
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    scorpio_vette wrote:
    i'm totally there with ya.


    i'm totally for amputation of repeat theft offenders, twig and berry amputation for rape and other sexual assaults.

    and damn i wish i could find that video of the guy being impaled on a pole for raping a child.


    i totally agree and believe that if we did some serious punishment and did it publicly, that people would think twice.
    Personaly I believe anyone who touches a child one time if the farther does kill the sob first, I wish they just toss the sick f&^ into general pop. Then give the other inmates a heads up. If I was ever on a jury i would say not guilty to a father or family member who had killed or wounded a pedophile.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    The court systems are simply too easy. Had an inmate with 722 counts of child molestations get 16 years. Yep...722 counts.

    He'll be out in about 6 years and taxpayers will keep him fed the rest of his life.

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    The court systems are simply too easy. Had an inmate with 722 counts of child molestations get 16 years. Yep...722 counts.

    He'll be out in about 6 years and taxpayers will keep him fed the rest of his life.*
    how??? i thought pedophiles where by many inmates to be considered the lowest of the low and dead meat??? i mean even criminals have a certain amount of honor and respect.

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    scorpio_vette wrote:
    TheMrMitch wrote:
    The court systems are simply too easy. Had an inmate with 722 counts of child molestations get 16 years. Yep...722 counts.

    He'll be out in about 6 years and taxpayers will keep him fed the rest of his life.
    how??? i thought pedophiles where by many inmates to be considered the lowest of the low and dead meat??? i mean even criminals have a certain amount of honor and respect.
    Didn't they tell you, they are separated from the rest of the general population to protect them(who protecting the kids). They are put with our sickos and they exchange their love stories. It is not like the movies where they are in with everyone else.Yet thanks to your government they can not receive the death penalty even for 722 counts because that punishment does not fit their crime, Only if they kill the child and in many of those cases liberal judges give them no more then 6-7 years. Sorry for the sarcasm but any other way makes blood shoot out of my eyes.

    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    snip...yutes were thinking the same thing. ;-)...snip

    Excuse me, what was that word you used?

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Pagan wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    *snip...*yutes were thinking the same thing. ;-)...snip
    **Excuse me, what was that word you used?
    It is a "My Cousin Vinny"ism for youths. :-)

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    Lil freak, we need to make you Generalissimo & Secretary of Corrections as well as Director of Public Safety.
    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Not near as messed up as the other two that didn't survive. Heck, they're already messed up. If prison was like it use to be, it might straighten their butts out.

    Prison use to be hard time, making little rocks out of big rocks with a sledge hammer, all day long.
    You can blame neocon Republicans who've made prison into a profitable business. I know in Florida the inmates used to grow all of their own food, worked on the local town or city's infrastructure (i.e. road crews), and generally did hard and menial tasks in ungodly humid heat. They still do in certain minimum security institutions when they can trust the inmates not to run off and need little watching over. However in the institutions in Florida the food and labor has been taken over by a contracting company owned in part by none other than the Bush family and won their contract during a certain governor's term. The state spends millions on inmates now who used to be for the most part self sustaining.

    Why would someone do this? Because it turns prison into a fluff camp which has no rehabilitation value and guarantees the inmates will continue to return and continue to keep putting money in the pocket of that contracting company. Why rehabilitate when it benefits you for more people to be in prison? Thankfully Charlie Crist sees this and is starting to reverse the policy ordering prisons to start their self-sustaining programs again since the state can't afford to keep paying a contracting company.

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    buster81 wrote:
    The two surviving members... two other men were killed.

    I'm wondering why they're not facing felony murder charges?
    Their 2 accomplices were killed as a result of their attempt to commit a felony,
    so their deaths are on the heads of the surviving 2.


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