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Thread: Common sense Gun control,based on our Constitution

  1. #1
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    Ok, I'd like to first say that I know it's been a while since I've been on the forum and it feels damn good to be back in Wisconsin, and back on the board in general.

    So anyways,I have been doing a lot ofpondering on how to curtail this nationwide problem we have with criminals having guns and so on and so forth, and It came to me that it isn't the guns,nor the magizine size or caliber of the guns,but it is a overall lack of education on not just the 2nd amendment, but the entire constitution & Bill of rights in general.

    Now bear with me, this is what I impose as a way to do away with CCW permits,gun registration and the whole school zone crap law.

    I say that yes we keep the background check,and hell maybe even keep the 48 hr hold law(that's a big maybe ). But in an effort to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, we inact a law that makes it mandatory to know the Constitution and Bill of rights for ANYONE purchasing a firearm for the first time. Once the test is passed, the tester will be given a card or document stating they have gone thru the proper chanels to obtain a firearm.

    The test/conditions on this common senseproposed gun lawwill be as follows:

    1)The Test can be taken as many times as it takes to pass.The testcan NEVER have any cost associated with it.The test will be designed togauge the knowledge of the US constitution, which means the ENTIRE constitution. And will also test your knowledge of the Bill of rights, not just the 2nd ammendment.

    2)As stated above the test will only apply to people purchasing a gun for the first time( current firearm owners will be exempt)


    3)The test MUST make people more "aware" of their rights because honestly,if you can't pass a test of knowledge based on simple knowledge of the consitution and bill of rights, you really shouldn't have a gun in the first place.(I mean hell, you have to know this stuff to enter the country legally and most legal imigrants no more about our constitution than we do!!!)

    4)Upon passing said test, the citizen WILL be able to carry in any matter they see fit (IE. Open carry, CCW "sans" permit, no school zone restrictions...etc.)

    5)The legal carrier will NOT be permited to carry while intoxicated, which should be backed up by a strict not a drop while carrying law (less you be charged with a Felony). After all people, we are dealing with a weapon here, enough said.

    6)Anyone carrying a firearm without proof that they passed said test, can and will be subjectfelony conviction which will barthem from firearm ownership, this will help curb criminal guns on the streets already.


    and 7) This test MUST be passed with no less than 90% accuracy(Strict I know, but passing with 90% or more WILL force people to be educated on the topic wether they like it or not)



    Now I realizeguys that this is not 100% foolproof, nor is the wording set in stone. But I do know that with enough insight from all of us members,we can peice together this proposed law and in the end we will have a clean bill that just makes sense.

    That said lets have a good clean fight on the subject and lets try to get this off the ground!

    Thoughts? Insults? Post'em below guys. Thx.

    -Landose_theghost-


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Sorry, I would not accept an "inteligence test" prior to "permission" to own a firearm.

    The 2nd amendment does not say "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed if you pass the test"


    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Wow; and maybe we can import the Haitians' to come work in our factories for pennies on the dollar, while they study our Constitution in order to pass your test.

    WTF, Haitai was a pile of crap before the quake; now its just a dusty pile of crap with less of a population. So in theory it should be easier to find food and employment there just because of the population reduction.
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    Lurchiron wrote:
    Wow; and maybe we can import the Haitians' to come work in our factories for pennies on the dollar, while they study our Constitution in order to pass your test.

    WTF, Haitai was a pile of crap before the quake; now its just a dusty pile of crap with less of a population. So in theory it should be easier to find food and employment there just because of the population reduction.

    Stay on subject please. This is not what this post is about.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    Sorry, I would not accept an "inteligence test" prior to "permission" to own a firearm.

    The 2nd amendment does not say "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed if you pass the test"

    Also under the test conditions, one cannot use Google to search for the bill of rights.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  6. #6
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Just what is your post about then. Seems as though the fodder of my reply comes straight out of thewording of your post. Tests & Haitians', your words; your post.
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    I have a lot of problems with a test but my main question would be what exactly would you be accomplishing by requiring a test?

    I think if you finish this sentence, "A test will accomplish ..." it will make a lot less sense than you suspect.

    Also, a test today, an additional requirement tomorrow, a different test requirement after that, etc...

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    Now, your number 6 point regarding an immediate felony conviction- are you saying the person will be convicted of a felony without due process? Are you saying arrest and conviction? No right to a jury trial? I'm not following.

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    Not meaning to beat up on you but I don't think you'll find much support for this proposal on this forum, rightfully so in my opinion. I could write a 10 page paper on everything that's wrong with this idea, in my view.

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    Lurchiron wrote:
    Just what is your post about then. Seems as though the fodder of my reply comes straight out of thewording of your post. Tests & Haitians', your words; your post.
    My haiti comment was post script and has no bearing on the bulk of my post. Also, stop whining, your an adult act like it.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    gbu28 wrote:
    Now, your number 6 point regarding an immediate felony conviction- are you saying the person will be convicted of a felony without due process? Are you saying arrest and conviction? No right to a jury trial? I'm not following.
    this is why this proposed legislation is open to discussion. Also, no to the lack of due process, this would be an arrestable offense. btw,I wrote this post in less then 10 minutes and I know it's not perfect. Good Reply tho...



    -Landose-
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Whining...what kind of defensive tactic are you trying to use here?

    As for the bulk of your post thingy... what part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? Are you trying to advance gun rights, or "test" them into oblivion?
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    Lurchiron wrote:
    Whining...what kind of defensive tactic are you trying to use here?

    As for the bulk of your post thingy... what part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? Are you trying to advance gun rights, or "test" them into oblivion?
    You do realize that your Rights are already being infringed uponvia the 48 hour hold law and school zone laws...etc? What I impose is far less strict than what applies today when you purchase a gun, and is more of an enlightenment to ones god given rights than a restriction. We will simply remove the 5 times a year, and weekly test limits on the proposed legislation,problem solved. Good post none the less my friend, I like your persistance, afterall isn't this why this forum exists?

    -Landose-
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Yes, debate is good; but so is the 2A as it is written.

    My thoughts are the 48 hour wait is a domestic abuse deterrent(a good thing), and if you can't wait 2 days to pick up your gun; why does one spend so much time on researching what gun would serve them best for their needs only to bitch about an extra 2 day wait?
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    True, but meet me @ the fact that the 2 day law makes no sense, I don't understand it, I can't buy a handgun and get it the same day, but I can buy an AR-15 or 12 Gauge Shotgun the same day??!? All guns are guns at the end of the day, and if you have cruel intentions, you will find a way to satisfy them, you cannot discriminate on the subject of firearmsso more than you could say there should be a 2 day wait on cheesburgers vsfrench friesfor fat people.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    I would say that the reasoning is all about the up close and personal nature of handguns as compared to the " I can see you coming from a mile away with that smokepole in your hands" effect of a long gun. Just like most sheeple are scared of concealed guns in general(all guns for that matter), but if the gov. says "with training", well then it must be ok cause big brother says so; right?

    If you check the yes box on that, well I can let you have some prime swamp land real cheap.
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    Lurchiron wrote:
    Yes, debate is good; but so is the 2A as it is written.

    My thoughts are the 48 hour wait is a domestic abuse deterrent(a good thing), and if you can't wait 2 days to pick up your gun; why does one spend so much time on researching what gun would serve them best for their needs only to bitch about an extra 2 day wait?
    What a joke!

    "Hmm, here I am at the gun store because my wife pissed me off, I'll just get a handgun and show her! What? I have to wait? Well, that COMPLETELY foils my plans! I mean, sure, they have shotguns a-plenty (and cheaper too!), and look at all these tacticool rifles... and I suppose at hoome we have knives, golf clubs, baseball bats, screwdrives and my hands, but no no, I'd never be able to get her with those, because clearly if handguns are on a two day wait, they must be worth it. And drats, by then I'll completely have forgotten the image in my head of her in bed with another man!"

    Also on that line of thinking, since I'm already a gun owner, am I that much more likely to "domestically abuse" my wife since I don't have to wait any longer? With that line of thinking, we should just have to return our handguns after a week or so, just in case the two-day-wait needs to be reenacted to prevent me from going ballistic.

    Well, sir, you're persistence on "shall not be infringed" has just lost quite a bit of credibility.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Sgt_Habz wrote:
    Lurchiron wrote:
    Yes, debate is good; but so is the 2A as it is written.

    My thoughts are the 48 hour wait is a domestic abuse deterrent(a good thing), and if you can't wait 2 days to pick up your gun; why does one spend so much time on researching what gun would serve them best for their needs only to bitch about an extra 2 day wait?
    What a joke!

    "Hmm, here I am at the gun store because my wife pissed me off, I'll just get a handgun and show her! What? I have to wait? Well, that COMPLETELY foils my plans! I mean, sure, they have shotguns a-plenty (and cheaper too!), and look at all these tacticool rifles... and I suppose at hoome we have knives, golf clubs, baseball bats, screwdrives and my hands, but no no, I'd never be able to get her with those, because clearly if handguns are on a two day wait, they must be worth it. And drats, by then I'll completely have forgotten the image in my head of her in bed with another man!"

    Also on that line of thinking, since I'm already a gun owner, am I that much more likely to "domestically abuse" my wife since I don't have to wait any longer? With that line of thinking, we should just have to return our handguns after a week or so, just in case the two-day-wait needs to be reenacted to prevent me from going ballistic.

    Well, sir, you're persistence on "shall not be infringed" has just lost quite a bit of credibility.


    Sorry to hear 'bout your wife's bad decisions, but what exactly is your point(other than the one under your hat). Sounds like your dredging up past encounters just to puff yourself up?
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

  19. #19
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    Lurchiron wrote:
    I would say that the reasoning is all about the up close and personal nature of handguns as compared to the " I can see you coming from a mile away with that smokepole in your hands" effect of a long gun. Just like most sheeple are scared of concealed guns in general(all guns for that matter), but if the gov. says "with training", well then it must be ok cause big brother says so; right?

    If you check the yes box on that, well I can let you have some prime swamp land real cheap.
    I check no on that box, but think of it like this, guns(wether you like to admit it or not)= power, and power without knowledge is a very dangerous thing...
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    @ Landose:

    I completely agree that a great, GREAT many of our nations problems stem from the fact that so many of us are so poorly educated in our Constitution, Bill of Rights, law, and the lessons learned from our forefathers that drove them to create this country as they did.

    I went to public school, and we spent, oh a few days on the Constitution/Bill of Rights (mind you, this was a 45 minute class, so a few days added up to maybe 3 hours). I challenge anyone to read and fully understand the Constitution and all that it implies and protects in 3 hours. Hell, 3 weeks! In order to understand their frame of mind, you'd need to read the Federalist & Anti-Federalist Papers.

    I get cracked up anytime someone says the 2nd Amendment is for the MILITIAS to bear arms. If you read the forefathers writings, it becomes ABUNDANTLY clear this is not the case. But I digress.

    My point is, I would greatly favor more emphasis on Constitution education, but I don't think dangling the "carry" carrot in front of the people's nose is the right avenue. I'd like to see it pressed in public schools much more (private schools are just that, private, so the gov't should stay out of their affairs).

    I mean, this Constitution Competence Test, shouldn't this be applied for ALL of the rights guaranteed by the document? Would we need to take this test to be granted Freedom of Speech, or of Religion as well?

    So, I like the general idea, just not that specific execution of it. Keep up the ideas though, because I think you hit on a very good point... our general lack of education on the subject.

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Landose_theghost wrote:
    Lurchiron wrote:
    I would say that the reasoning is all about the up close and personal nature of handguns as compared to the " I can see you coming from a mile away with that smokepole in your hands" effect of a long gun. Just like most sheeple are scared of concealed guns in general(all guns for that matter), but if the gov. says "with training", well then it must be ok cause big brother says so; right?

    If you check the yes box on that, well I can let you have some prime swamp land real cheap.
    I check no on that box, but think of it like this, guns(wether you like to admit it or not)= power, and power without knowledge is a very dangerous thing...

    Agreed, but should not one study the Constitution for its own sake; rather than just to be able to buy a gun?

    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    Sgt_Habz wrote:
    So, I like the general idea, just not that specific execution of it. Keep up the ideas though, because I think you hit on a very good point... our general lack of education on the subject.
    Damn Sgt, I'll give you that one. Very, Very, true.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Lurchiron wrote:
    Just what is your post about then. Seems as though the fodder of my reply comes straight out of thewording of your post. Tests & Haitians', your words; your post.
    Lurchiron wrote:
    Sorry to hear 'bout your wife's bad decisions, but what exactly is your point(other than the one under your hat). Sounds like your dredging up past encounters just to puff yourself up?
    And now we come to the root of our problem. Here I thought we were debating with someone of intelligence. It's clear you're having difficulty understanding things.

    And nice tactic, by the way. Dismiss my point and counter-claim that I must be trying to boost my ego? lol... Suppose I'll have to quote the OP... "act like an adult."

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    RE:Lurchiron-

    Yes, I agree, I think the problem starts with our wonderfull public Education (honestly more of a dumbification) system. But still, the results of such a system are now ever present and growing and honestly, what as a society can we doother than make people who abuse their rights learn them?
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  25. #25
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Sgt_Habz wrote:
    Lurchiron wrote:
    Just what is your post about then. Seems as though the fodder of my reply comes straight out of thewording of your post. Tests & Haitians', your words; your post.
    Lurchiron wrote:
    Sorry to hear 'bout your wife's bad decisions, but what exactly is your point(other than the one under your hat). Sounds like your dredging up past encounters just to puff yourself up?
    And now we come to the root of our problem. Here I thought we were debating with someone of intelligence. It's clear you're having difficulty understanding things.

    And nice tactic, by the way. Dismiss my point and counter-claim that I must be trying to boost my ego? lol... Suppose I'll have to quote the OP... "act like an adult."



    Is that the best you can do(weak)? Oh and I'm still waiting for you to explain your point of view rather than entering another ******* contest.

    Shouldn't open your pie-hole if your not prepared to eat them just the same.

    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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