Hickory PD and GATTTOTP

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I know someone who sat in on a meeting with the Hickory PD today. Several issues were discussed, including one that I am happy to report. One of the senior officers, Major IIRC, passed out some info and instructed all of his officer to pass the word onto their subordinates and especially the rookie officers. The info was......a holstered firearm is NOT GATTTOTP. :celebrate The quote I got was, "For heavens sake don't try to charge anybody carrying a holstered firearm with GATTTOTP. It's not. Unless they are waving it around making threats they are perfectly legal." Then he mentioned the lawsuits some of the Georgia departments have gotten themselves into lately. He does not want to get involved in any of those nasty lawsuits. SWEEEEETTT!!!

The person knows I OC, and would not give me bad info. Particularly since it proves them and the magistrate wrong, and me right. :dude:

Gonna go post this over on the Georgia board and give them a pat on the back.

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Yay!!! Good for them, for getting it right.

Out here in the eastern part of the state, (except for Jacksonville) most of the local LEAs seem to have this same attitude--it's legal and they don't have an issue with it unless you're doing something stupid or threatening. I haven't has a single problem from anyone--except one manager in a consignment shop. Well, that guy, and my wife, who still doesn't like the idea of OC, and begrudgingly goes along with CC.

Funny thing was, I ALMOST had her to the point where she was OK with OC, but then she went to MD for an extended work assignment, and since she's been living up there for about 2 months, she's gotten REALLY "anti" again.

I'm starting to homestly believe that they really DO put something in the water in MD that causes hoplophobia...

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Awesome. After hearing this news, I'll most likely move to Hickory if I ever move back to NC.

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tpain wrote:

After hearing this news, I'll most likely move to Hickory if I ever move back to NC.

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That's a little rash, ain't it?:lol:

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wylde007 wrote:

tpain wrote:

After hearing this news, I'll most likely move to Hickory if I ever move back to NC.

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That's a little rash, ain't it?:lol:

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HEY, it's not that bad. :lol:

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No its not rash. I'm just saying that if I ever move back to NC, I'll most likely move to Hickory since they seem to allow OC.

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:lol: <- Laughy-face.

That means I'm kidding around.:banghead:

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chiefjason wrote:

I know someone who sat in on a meeting with the Hickory PD today. Several issues were discussed, including one that I am happy to report. One of the senior officers, Major IIRC, passed out some info and instructed all of his officer to pass the word onto their subordinates and especially the rookie officers. The info was......a holstered firearm is NOT GATTTOTP. :celebrate The quote I got was, "For heavens sake don't try to charge anybody carrying a holstered firearm with GATTTOTP. It's not. Unless they are waving it around making threats they are perfectly legal." Then he mentioned the lawsuits some of the Georgia departments have gotten themselves into lately. He does not want to get involved in any of those nasty lawsuits. SWEEEEETTT!!!

The person knows I OC, and would not give me bad info. Particularly since it proves them and the magistrate wrong, and me right. :dude:

Gonna go post this over on the Georgia board and give them a pat on the back.

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Why don't you prod your contact/friend to see if he can spread this info to other LEO departments in this state. GATTTOTP is a ridiculous charge to being with, and I personally don't think it should even be allowed to stand up in court. Common laws are the most asinine things I have ever seen.

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The GAttTotP charge needs to be stricken from the record and made null and void.

If they feel they need something to charge people with when they wave their guns around in a threatening manner, then we shoudl replace the GAttTotP charge with a statute that forbids "Brandishing" and defines it clearly and specifically, like they have in VA...

This is just one more silly law we have in NC that needs to be repealed.

Call and write your Representatives and voice your opinions.

I wish we had a group in NC that was as active and influential as VCDL like they have in VA. Why is GRNC so lame?

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ocgso wrote:
Why don't you prod your contact/friend to see if he can spread this info to other LEO departments in this state.  GATTTOTP is a ridiculous charge to being with, and I personally don't think it should even be allowed to stand up in court.  Common laws are the most asinine things I have ever seen.

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They are probably not in a position to spread much to LEO's, dispatchers maybe. Hopefully the info will spread in a positive manner. Not in the "I can't believe we can't charge them" way. They just got lucky by needing to be in that particular meeting. It did change their opinion of me OC'ing though, so that's a good step too. And hopefully this got passed onto communications. So the can make better decisions dispatching calls. Though the one time I was there when a MWAG call came in there was no freaking out or code 3 cars rolling. More like, "when you get a minute could you drive by and check this out."

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I was under the impression that four (4) distinct and onerous criteria had to be met in order to be charged with GATTTOP (272 N.C. 535; 32 N.C. App 495)

(1) arms himself or herself with unusual and dangerous weapons (firearm)

(2) for the purpose of terrifying others

(3) and goes about on public highways

(4) in a manner to cause terror to others.

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wylde007 wrote:

I was under the impression that four (4) distinct and onerous criteria had to be met in order to be charged with GATTTOP (272 N.C. 535; 32 N.C. App 495)

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No, you need to meet all four "prongs" of the charge for it to hold up in court.

To quote the infamous G. Gordon Liddy, "you can indict a ham sandwich...."

CHARGING someone with a "crime" requires almost no proof. Filing charges, or issuing a citation is simply a TOOL of the judicial system to give notice to someone that the system thinks they might have done something illegal. It is the job of the DA or the Prosecuting Attorney to PROVE that a REAL crime was in fact committed.

It is not the job of the police to PROVE that a crime was committed. Many police believe that it's not even their job to know and understand the laws in the first place--they think it's just their job to keep people in line with what they think the State wants in society.

Personally, I think that everyone issued a badge and a gun should be required to take a year or two worth of classes on the Law, at a REAL law school. There is NO excuse for LEO's to not know and understand the laws they are sworn to enforce.

I find it VERy refreshing and highly commendable that the Cheif in Hickory is taking a proactive role in educating his officers as to the law with regards to OC. Perhaps he needs to contact the State AG, and suggest that such a program of education be implemented state-wide in all the local LEA's. I cn think of several (like Fayettevile and Jacksonville) that would benefit by such an education program...

Hats off, and applause all around to the Hickory Chief of Police. Hopefully, the heads of more local LEA's will see the wisdom of his actions and follow suit.

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Dreamer wrote:

No, you need to meet all four "prongs" of the charge for it to hold up in court.

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Arrest him now, we'll find something to charge him with later.

Gotcha.

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I have actually heard that one before........to me if you cannot quote a statute number, you shouldn't be allowed to detain me.

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http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100331/NEWS01/100331053

Ashville GATTTOTP charge

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Lawmaker wrote:

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100331/NEWS01/100331053

Ashville GATTTOTP charge

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I love how the press reports only the barest of details [sarcasm]. I'm not saying that the guy was in the right, but COME ON.... there has got to be more to the story than what was reported.

This part was great: "Wyatt also was charged with second-degree trespassing after a man was found in the median at the Charlotte Street exit median, which is marked with no trespassing signs."

WHO was this other unidentified man in the median that they are reporting on? How does he impact the situation? Was he threatening Mr. Wyatt in some manner?

Sheesh!

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Lawmaker wrote:

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100331/NEWS01/100331053

Ashville GATTTOTP charge

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Wouldn't he be innocent since it was only a toy? I don't see how a toy gun fits the first element of GATTTOP:

(1) arms himself or herself with unusual and dangerous weapons

It could be said that it's unusual but in no way dangerous to others. May be dangerous to himself i.e. getting shot by police. Either way he's dumb but it doesn't seem like more than trespassing would stick.

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jerz_subbie wrote:

Lawmaker wrote:

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100331/NEWS01/100331053

Ashville GATTTOTP charge

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Wouldn't he be innocent since it was only a toy? I don't see how a toy gun fits the first element of GATTTOP:

(1) arms himself or herself with unusual and dangerous weapons

It could be said that it's unusual but in no way dangerous to others. May be dangerous to himself i.e. getting shot by police. Either way he's dumb but it doesn't seem like more than trespassing would stick.

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Doubtful. Using a toy is still armed robbery. It's not that the tool is real, it's how it's being used. I guess they felt he was using it to intimidate others, therefore the intent seems to override the fact that it was a toy. Likewise, if you shoot someone robbing you with a toy gun they are still an imminent deadly threat if you don't know it's a toy. My .02 anyway.

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In NC a gun is classified as an " unusual and dangerous weapon" for the charge of GATTTOTP.

6. Going Armed To The Terror Of The People

By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself/herself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The

N.C. Supreme Court states that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore, persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.

Information derived from the 2007 NC Firearms Law.