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OC in the park and contacted by SPD

1245A Defender

1245A Defender

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there was a court rulling,,somewhere,,i read it,,, and it said that it was the resposability of the citizen to stop a consentual encounter by just walking away!!

i the cop really thinks they are detaining you,, they will not let you leave,,one way or another you will know the score!!
 
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Citizen

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1245A Defender wrote:
there was a court rulling,,somewhere,,i read it,,, and it said that it was the resposability of the citizen to stop a consentual encounter by just walking away!!

i the cop really thinks they are detaining you,, they will not let you leave,,one way or another you will know the score!!
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I remember discussing that. Was that in Washington state?

I'll bet it doesn't pass constitutional muster if it is written as you said. Verbally refusing consent should do it; no need to risk being manhandled because some court didn't think about an overt verbal refusal.

Better sort this one out. It might make a little bit difference in tactics. Anybody remember that case? Can you post a quote and link?
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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Lammo wrote:
bennie1986 wrote:
I went to the same park with my wife and son today that I was at when I got the ticket for carrying.When wegot there the cop wasalready at the park but she didn't notice me at all. I was carrying myM&P40 in a tac leg holster. After we were there probably 15min someone approached the officer andlether know thatI had a gun.The officer approached me in a very calm and respecting manner and asked ifI had a gun or a tazer. She explained that she was approached by someone that was concerned and just wanted to make contact.She also saidthat sheknew thatI wasn't doing anything illegal.She asked if I had a CPL but didn't ask to see it or my ID. She told me that because I have a CPL that means that I had to CC. I told her that I have researched that because another officer said the same thing and its not true. She said oh okay and we wished each other a good day. The best part was everyone watching got to see her walk away and me go about my business!

Kudos to the SPD for a change! They need more officers like her!
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Devil's advocate for half a second. Maybe this officer asked if you had a CPL to eliminate the possibility that you were unlawfully in possession of the pistol. Logically, if you have a CPL you are not a convicted felon and, therefore, you can CC or OC all you want. If I were a cop that might be how I would casually establish that you were not a prohibited person. Of course, I wouldn't follow up by telling you that you are required to CC if you have a CPL so that's probably not what this particular officer was up to.

PS - - which park?
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To play the devil's devil's advocate. She can ask whatever she wants she doesn't need to be told unless she can state PC/RAS. Right?
 
Lammo

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sudden valley gunner wrote:
Lammo wrote:
bennie1986 wrote:
SNIP
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Devil's advocate for half a second. Maybe this officer asked if you had a CPL to eliminate the possibility that you were unlawfully in possession of the pistol. Logically, if you have a CPL you are not a convicted felon and, therefore, you can CC or OC all you want. If I were a cop that might be how I would casually establish that you were not a prohibited person. Of course, I wouldn't follow up by telling you that you are required to CC if you have a CPL so that's probably not what this particular officer was up to.

PS - - which park?
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To play the devil's devil's advocate. She can ask whatever she wants she doesn't need to be told unless she can state PC/RAS. Right?
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Sure, but unless the encounter goes horribly wrong that would only matter if you're doing something unlawful. That is, if the contact turns into a seizure that leads to a search revealing contraband that leads to an arrest then you'll get the contraband suppressed and the charges dismissed if there was no probable cause for the seizure. If you're just hanging out in a park minding your own business you would be within your rights to refuse to give any information. Unless you are driving there is no general authority for law enforcement to demand information or obligation to provide it.
 
E

erps

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Officers lie to the public all the time in order to get cooperation. Notice how fast she backed off when Bennie knew better.
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That study on officers lying to the public all the time would make some interesting reading. Do have a link to it?
 
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erps

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DaemonForce wrote:
erps wrote:
That study on officers lying to the public all the time would make some interesting reading. Do have a link to it?
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Do you really need a link? The next time a LEO detains you and interrogates youshould be enough. :shock:
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Each time I've been detained, it was because I was driving too fast. On the other hand, it's pretty typical that when I've conducted investigatory stops especially onesthat resulted in arrests, it was pretty typical for the detainee to lie their a$$ off. You won't hear me saying that citizens stopped by the police lie all the time though, as that would be a smear of a lot of good folks.

This gal probably didn't know what she was talking about and was shooting from the hip. When she was called on it, she realized she was out on a limb and backed off.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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erps wrote:
DaemonForce wrote:
erps wrote:
That study on officers lying to the public all the time would make some interesting reading. Do have a link to it?
Click to expand...
Do you really need a link? The next time a LEO detains you and interrogates youshould be enough. :shock:
Click to expand...

Each time I've been detained, it was because I was driving too fast. On the other hand, it's pretty typical that when I've conducted investigatory stops especially onesthat resulted in arrests, it was pretty typical for the detainee to lie their a$$ off. You won't hear me saying that citizens stopped by the police lie all the time though, as that would be a smear of a lot of good folks.

This gal probably didn't know what she was talking about and was shooting from the hip. When she was called on it, she realized she was out on a limb and backed off.
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I have in my possession police reports of my detainment and out of the 4 I received I can say one was the least untruthful. The others outright lied quite a bit. I had to go to court last summer for a traffic violation and that officer lied in her report.

There is a large difference in my opinion. The average good folk are not law enforcement. When you have someone who works for you, (yep LEO's are your employees) and represent the "justice system" and are suppose to enforce the law and are in a position of "power" then lie to get an arrest or conviction. That is wrong.
 
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erps

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and represent the "justice system" and are suppose to enforce the law and are in a position of "power" then lie to get an arrest or conviction. That is wrong.
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I completely agree. They should be weeded out and fired. I also have been around long enough to know that there are usually two sides to every story.
 
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DaemonForce

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erps wrote:
Each time I've been detained, it was because I was driving too fast. On the other hand, it's pretty typical that when I've conducted investgatory stops especially onesthat resulted in arrests, it was pretty typical for the detainee to lie their a$$ off.
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Oh. Each time I've been detained it's because someone was doing something stupid and I was needed either for testimony or admission of guilt. During the detainment I'm usually put in a monitoredopen area and sometimes bullied with lies. Thankfully nothing violent(yet). This isn't always the casebut it happens more often than I need.

Thankfully the last time I was stopped nothing bad happened. It was the end oflast yearand by a local patrolman that needed to write some tickets. He was stopping people left and right. I was stopped because my windows were dangerous? :uhoh:

It was almost 10:00 andI wanted a few burgers. It was a bad night to go anywhere. My heater switch jammed, the starter was froze and my windows collected more condensation than the common late model vehiclesitting around that night. I couldn't clear the back window because it was from the inside. Oddly enough the front and sides were clear. I was stopped right before I could make the left turn into the restaurant parking lot. The LEO asked me for ID, insurance and about my frozen rear window and if I could fix it before going back on the road again. He asked me about my passenger side windshield wiper and a few other things I've forgotten about. No ticket written and I got my burgers in time for closing that night(I'm too good for the drive-thru). On the way back I saw that he already stopped someone else in another parking lot.

Either he was genuinely looking out for people or he only stopped me to get a good look at my frozen rig. Interpret that any which way you desire.:?
 
bennie1986

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Lammo wrote:
bennie1986 wrote:
I went to the same park with my wife and son today that I was at when I got the ticket for carrying.When wegot there the cop wasalready at the park but she didn't notice me at all. I was carrying myM&P40 in a tac leg holster. After we were there probably 15min someone approached the officer andlether know thatI had a gun.The officer approached me in a very calm and respecting manner and asked ifI had a gun or a tazer. She explained that she was approached by someone that was concerned and just wanted to make contact.She also saidthat sheknew thatI wasn't doing anything illegal.She asked if I had a CPL but didn't ask to see it or my ID. She told me that because I have a CPL that means that I had to CC. I told her that I have researched that because another officer said the same thing and its not true. She said oh okay and we wished each other a good day. The best part was everyone watching got to see her walk away and me go about my business!

Kudos to the SPD for a change! They need more officers like her!
Click to expand...
Devil's advocate for half a second. Maybe this officer asked if you had a CPL to eliminate the possibility that you were unlawfully in possession of the pistol. Logically, if you have a CPL you are not a convicted felon and, therefore, you can CC or OC all you want. If I were a cop that might be how I would casually establish that you were not a prohibited person. Of course, I wouldn't follow up by telling you that you are required to CC if you have a CPL so that's probably not what this particular officer was up to.

PS - - which park?
Click to expand...
Manito Park
 
D

diesel556

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Seattle-ish, Washington, USA
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DaemonForce wrote:
Uh I'm reading through it and I must have missed the problem twice. Where is it? :uhoh:

Edit: Never mind. Damn! That can't be right! :shock:
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Officers who investigate the “unlawful display” of a weapon should:

[SNIP]

Secure the weapon after contacting the subject, if necessary, during the active investigation/detention and place into evidence if an arrest is made.
Click to expand...

Officers do have some options on how to handle an open carry incident depending on the circumstances, e.g.. trespass, assault, intimidation, and unlawful display of a weapon.
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D

diesel556

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Lammo wrote:
Devil's advocate for half a second.  Maybe this officer asked if you had a CPL to eliminate the possibility that you were unlawfully in possession of the pistol.

[SNIP]
Click to expand...

Unless that officer has an articulable suspicion that you are a prohibited person, they cannot demand to see your CPL.

OC, does not provide an articulable suspicion.
 
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