• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Echeck Cherry popped in fremont today.

R

RaycerX96

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
42
Location
Hayward, Ca, ,
imported post

Went to Frys to pick a a new hard drive, as i was pulling out of the parking lot I had a FPD officer motion for me to pull over. At the point three more cruisers pulled up.

I was asked to put my hands out of the window, then open my door from the outside. once i undid my seat belt and stepped out, I was told to put my hands on the roof. I did see guns drawn but only one pointed in my direction.

This is where it gets kind of funny. I heard one of the officer say something about my gun being out in the open(I think thats when they realised it was an UOC issue). Then heard one say something about what to do next, like they didnt know.

I was then told to interlace my fingers on top of my head and walk backwards to them. Once there one officer grabbed my hands and held them on my head(not hard) while patting me down, another removed my gun. He checked to see if it was unloaded and then placed it on the hood the the patrol car, the other released my hands and I could put them down. The first officer asked me if I had ID and I replied yes I do, but Im not going to give it to him, he then pointed at my car and said thats why he was asking, cant argue there so i gave it to him, he looked at it and then handed it back to me.

From what I was able to determine, I think this was a cherry popper for them as well. One officer asked if he could take a picture of my car and me so in the future if they get another call with a description, they can say oh thats this guy and only send one officer to echeck. I didnt see a problem with that, so i let him. He took a side shot of my car and a picture of me with an officer. One of the officer went and put my gun on the hood of my car even after i said he could put it back my holster, he said thats okay i'll just put it there. He put it on the hood of my car and walked away.

Then a few of the officers and I talked about UOC for a few, while pissing a lot of people off because of us blocking traffic. I asked the officer about maybe moving the cars overand he said let them wait. LOL. I asked if I was free to go and he said sure. So i grabbed my gun stuck it back in the holster, got in my car and left.


I have to admit I found the whole thing funny, and from what I have seen on here my first echeck wasnt that bad other a than the over all response. The officers were nice, had questions and never exceeded their authority.

Kudos to Fremont PD.
 
bigtoe416

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
imported post

Not bad for a first (e) check.

Things I would have done differently include not letting them take a picture of me and my car, asking what driving infraction I had committed (they can't just stop people and ask for their driver's licenses, and would have got their cards after the fact.

They did overstep Terry by frisking you without RAS, plus they had no reason to believe that you were dangerous. I'm not sure if they violated Ubiles by stopping you since they theoretically stopped you just for the (e) check. I'm not sure if there is any case law regarding the ability of a police officer to pull you over in order to perform an (e) check.
 
P

pullnshoot25

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
1,139
Location
Escondido, California, USA
imported post

RaycerX96 wrote:
Went to Frys to pick a a new hard drive, as i was pulling out of the parking lot I had a FPD officer motion for me to pull over. At the point three more cruisers pulled up.

I was asked to put my hands out of the window, then open my door from the outside. once i undid my seat belt and stepped out, I was told to put my hands on the roof. I did see guns drawn but only one pointed in my direction.

This is where it gets kind of funny. I heard one of the officer say something about my gun being out in the open(I think thats when they realised it was an UOC issue). Then heard one say something about what to do next, like they didnt know.

I was then told to interlace my fingers on top of my head and walk backwards to them. Once there one officer grabbed my hands and held them on my head(not hard) while patting me down, another removed my gun. He checked to see if it was unloaded and then placed it on the hood the the patrol car, the other released my hands and I could put them down. The first officer asked me if I had ID and I replied yes I do, but Im not going to give it to him, he then pointed at my car and said thats why he was asking, cant argue there so i gave it to him, he looked at it and then handed it back to me.

From what I was able to determine, I think this was a cherry popper for them as well. One officer asked if he could take a picture of my car and me so in the future if they get another call with a description, they can say oh thats this guy and only send one officer to echeck. I didnt see a problem with that, so i let him. He took a side shot of my car and a picture of me with an officer. One of the officer went and put my gun on the hood of my car even after i said he could put it back my holster, he said thats okay i'll just put it there. He put it on the hood of my car and walked away.

Then a few of the officers and I talked about UOC for a few, while pissing a lot of people off because of us blocking traffic. I asked the officer about maybe moving the cars overand he said let them wait. LOL. I asked if I was free to go and he said sure. So i grabbed my gun stuck it back in the holster, got in my car and left.


I have to admit I found the whole thing funny, and from what I have seen on here my first echeck wasnt that bad other a than the over all response. The officers were nice, had questions and never exceeded their authority.

Kudos to Fremont PD.
Click to expand...
Picture is a problem. You weren't going to give ID initially but figured a picture with your car was a good idea? That reeks of fail.

I don't know if an OC incident is PC for pulling over a vehicle, this is a new and yet unexpected development, one that I have actually feared in the past. You should have had your gun locked in a bag and hidden, that would have prevented a search.
 
P

pullnshoot25

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
1,139
Location
Escondido, California, USA
imported post

bigtoe416 wrote:
Not bad for a first (e) check.

Things I would have done differently include not letting them take a picture of me and my car, asking what driving infraction I had committed (they can't just stop people and ask for their driver's licenses, and would have got their cards after the fact.

They did overstep Terry by frisking you without RAS, plus they had no reason to believe that you were dangerous. I'm not sure if they violated Ubiles by stopping you since they theoretically stopped you just for the (e) check. I'm not sure if there is any case law regarding the ability of a police officer to pull you over in order to perform an (e) check.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Ubiles is not binding in this circuit, only the Third Circuit.

I too am questioning the ability of an officer to pull someone over for an e-check.
 
ConditionThree

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,231
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
imported post

RaycerX96 wrote:
The officers were nice, had questions and never exceeded their authority.
Click to expand...

1) If you dont have audio, it never happened. You also do not indicate that anyone was with you. So no recorder and no friendly witnesses? I wont bother to speculate on other deficiencies.

2) By patting you down this was a "Terry" stop. Unless they had PC that a crime was afoot, they exceeded their authority by detaining you longer than it would take to inspect your weapon.

3) You do not indicate whether or not they stopped you for a vehicle code violation. If they were, I think they were justified in demanding a licence. However, police cannot just stop you and demand an ID because you are driving. Absent a vechicle code violation or some articulable suspicion, it appears they were fishing.

Congratulations on popping your (e) check cherry- however, like many first times, it wasnt quite right...
 
R

RaycerX96

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
42
Location
Hayward, Ca, ,
imported post

As anal as Fremont PD can be I think it went okay. I know I gave up some stuff, my recorder was in the car, so it got nothing. As for my ID, he didnt run it, just looked at it and handed it back. They didnt check my car or anything and the pat down was just to make sure I didnt have anything else on me. I didnt have a problem with that. Its for their safety as well as mine(dont want to get shot). I (as sick as it will sound) found the whole stop...... pleasant...... abit over board, but pleasant. they werent rude or anything. We were even joking a bit before i left. As for the picture, let them, I have more than one car and told them that. they asked me if I had open carried before in fremont and I said yes. As for stopping me in my car. from what I gathered, they were on there way in to the parking lot as I was on my way out, someone gave a description of my car.
 
P

pullnshoot25

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
1,139
Location
Escondido, California, USA
imported post

RaycerX96 wrote:
As anal as Fremont PD can be I think it went okay. I know I gave up some stuff, my recorder was in the car, so it got nothing. As for my ID, he didnt run it, just looked at it and handed it back. They didnt check my car or anything and the pat down was just to make sure I didnt have anything else on me. I didnt have a problem with that. Its for their safety as well as mine(dont want to get shot). I (as sick as it will sound) found the whole stop...... pleasant...... abit over board, but pleasant. they werent rude or anything. We were even joking a bit before i left. As for the picture, let them, I have more than one car and told them that. they asked me if I had open carried before in fremont and I said yes. As for stopping me in my car. from what I gathered, they were on there way in to the parking lot as I was on my way out, someone gave a description of my car.
Click to expand...
I don't think you quite get the whole concept just yet...
 
D

dirtykoala

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
644
imported post

so, it wasnt tooooo bad for your first stop. you do have things to learn though, youll get critisism for it, but take it as constructivly as you can.

when the cop pointed at your car and said hes asking for your id because your driving, you should have still said no. you did not commit a crime while driving did you? cops cant just pull you over and ask for ID because your supposed to have one.

i would have said no to the picture. i might have agreed to have my picture taken standing on top of their car holding their guns, only because thats fun though, not because its a better idea than letting them take your picture with your car.

you should have had your audio on you, i got pulled over a few days ago and started my iphone audio recording as the cop approached me. when i uoc i have 2-3 recordings going. one time i stopped 2 of them and after the encounter thought "crap, i have no audio of that" then i looked down and realized i had one running still. audio can save you in court if need be. always talk your recorder through whats going on. when im UOCing and i have an encouter, i always note what the audio cant see. "im being called over by one cop, 30 ft behind me, behind a ____", "2 more cops have showed up, officers _____ and _____" this will help you remember things later.

terry v ohio was breached, you should have said over and over to them that you do not concent to any warrantless searches of your person or property, and that you know they do not have reasonable suspicion that a crime was afoot. as they were searching you should have told them that they were breaching terry v ohio.

pullns is right, you should have had your gun locked when you got in your car. its too easy to hit a school zone while driving. he is also right about you not getting the concept just yet. dont take offense to that please. you did good with your UOC outing and excersizing your 2A, but you failed horribly at protecting your 4th and 5th.

the reason you though you had a good experience is because cops are trained to talk to people. they talk like salesmen, but better, before you know it, you think your buddies and youre telling them about the stolen money and grenades in your trunk. try to keep your encounters short and too the point until you get really comfortable.

like you said, it wasnt bad, but it could have been better, they always can be though.
 
Gundude

Gundude

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
1,691
Location
Sandy Eggo County
imported post

RaycerX96 wrote:

Then a few of the officers and I talked about UOC for a few, while pissing a lot of people off because of us blocking traffic. I asked the officer about maybe moving the cars overand he said let them wait. LOL. I asked if I was free to go and he said sure. So i grabbed my gun stuck it back in the holster, got in my car and left.
Click to expand...

Write this down...."Don't talk to the cops." Watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
 
bigtoe416

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
imported post

RaycerX96 wrote:
They didnt check my car or anything and the pat down was just to make sure I didnt have anything else on me. I didnt have a problem with that. Its for their safety as well as mine(dont want to get shot).
Click to expand...
+1 to dirtykoala, he's been there before, he knows what he's talking about (as opposed to me, I've never been anywhere before). They talk to you to get information from you. Information which they want to use against you. A police officer is not there to be your friend unless he gives you the secret OCDO handshake and whisper that he is Cato, the demigod amongst police officers. But then again, if it was him, he wouldn't be violating your rights.

What bothers me about the quoted post above is how you seem to be thankful that they didn't check your car (by which I assume you mean search) and you felt that the pat down was totally warranted. Well the constitution disagrees with your assessment, the fourth amendment states, "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...." You weren't secure in your person or effects during this stop. The supreme court also disagrees with the pat down because, "No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law."

Now I think I understand where you're coming from. I was once there once as well. But after reading about American history and about rights and everything the citizens of this country have been through to get these rights put on paper and absolutely protected, my attitude has changed. These rights are inalienable, hold them close and dear, for they mean more to you than you may realize. Don't let any of your rights be violated, because anybody who is violating your rights is an enemy of the entire populous.
 
cato

cato

Newbie
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
2,338
Location
California, USA
imported post

If you were stopped in an off street parking facility I doubt they had RAS/PC to compel ID. If you were on the street well...the VC is vast :X.

I also doubt the legality of the stop to see IF you were carrying but we would have to see the info from the call for service to attempt a determination of lawfulness.
 
R

RaycerX96

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
42
Location
Hayward, Ca, ,
imported post

I take criticism with a grain of salt. Yes it was a learning experience. Yes i know I did somethings wrong. As for driving with my gun, I know fremont really well, Fry's is not near a school and driving wise the freeway is right there which is where I was heading and going to be on for a bit. But i do lock my gun up if Im going to an area i dont know. I know I blew it on the recorder. But I see nothing wrong with being released after the echeck and talk about UOC with the officers. i did advise him of my rights and didnt consent to the search, but did not see any reason to make the stop be longer than needed the whole stop last about 10 minutes. Start to finish. So I just didnt push the issues. I wasnt lectured by them, one even asked me how i like my crimson trace grips. Another asked me about the return spring in my 1911 because of how hard the slide was to pull back and how hard it slid forward.

Knowing how Fremont PD can be, i felt stating my protest and then complying eased any tension the officer might have had over the unknown.

Like i said, i think this was a first for either the department or the officers that were there. If it was, the i think a little leeway can be granted on a learning curve They did somethings right and some thing wrong. Based on what the officer told me about the call, the dispatcher was the problem and didnt get anymore info than a decription of me and my car.

The officers and I discussed that, and they even said more info would have been nice. that they responded following procedures, but said it could have been dumb down a bit with more info. The sergeant that was there said he would be bringing that up to his captain.

I think overall if the officers attitudes were less friendly, I would have followed the UOC "rules" to the letter.
 
R

RaycerX96

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
42
Location
Hayward, Ca, ,
imported post

pullnshoot25 wrote:
RaycerX96 wrote:
Went to Frys to pick a a new hard drive, as i was pulling out of the parking lot I had a FPD officer motion for me to pull over. At the point three more cruisers pulled up.

I was asked to put my hands out of the window, then open my door from the outside. once i undid my seat belt and stepped out, I was told to put my hands on the roof. I did see guns drawn but only one pointed in my direction.

This is where it gets kind of funny. I heard one of the officer say something about my gun being out in the open(I think thats when they realised it was an UOC issue). Then heard one say something about what to do next, like they didnt know.

I was then told to interlace my fingers on top of my head and walk backwards to them. Once there one officer grabbed my hands and held them on my head(not hard) while patting me down, another removed my gun. He checked to see if it was unloaded and then placed it on the hood the the patrol car, the other released my hands and I could put them down. The first officer asked me if I had ID and I replied yes I do, but Im not going to give it to him, he then pointed at my car and said thats why he was asking, cant argue there so i gave it to him, he looked at it and then handed it back to me.

From what I was able to determine, I think this was a cherry popper for them as well. One officer asked if he could take a picture of my car and me so in the future if they get another call with a description, they can say oh thats this guy and only send one officer to echeck. I didnt see a problem with that, so i let him. He took a side shot of my car and a picture of me with an officer. One of the officer went and put my gun on the hood of my car even after i said he could put it back my holster, he said thats okay i'll just put it there. He put it on the hood of my car and walked away.

Then a few of the officers and I talked about UOC for a few, while pissing a lot of people off because of us blocking traffic. I asked the officer about maybe moving the cars overand he said let them wait. LOL. I asked if I was free to go and he said sure. So i grabbed my gun stuck it back in the holster, got in my car and left.


I have to admit I found the whole thing funny, and from what I have seen on here my first echeck wasnt that bad other a than the over all response. The officers were nice, had questions and never exceeded their authority.

Kudos to Fremont PD.
Click to expand...
Picture is a problem. You weren't going to give ID initially but figured a picture with your car was a good idea? That reeks of fail.

I don't know if an OC incident is PC for pulling over a vehicle, this is a new and yet unexpected development, one that I have actually feared in the past. You should have had your gun locked in a bag and hidden, that would have prevented a search.
Click to expand...
As i stated, Them stopping me on the street was just timing. Had i decided to head over to the magazine stand, I could have be echecked in the store or at my car. I was ordered to pull over. Heck he could have stopped me for having a parking lamp out.
 
S

SouthBayr

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
108
Location
San Jose, California, USA
imported post

Well I can tell you weren't stopped by Rosetti, you probably would be sitting in jail right now for many vehicle code violations, whether committed or not.

I'm still waiting on my first (e) check, but I don't UOC solo anymore so I'll always have witnesses and recordings.

Glad you got away with a few laughs, Fremont PD (in my experience) isn't too friendly.
 
JJ

JJ

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
213
Location
East Contra Costa County, California, ,
imported post

SouthBayr wrote:
Well I can tell you weren't stopped by Rosetti, you probably would be sitting in jail right now for many vehicle code violations, whether committed or not.

I'm still waiting on my first (e) check, but I don't UOC solo anymore so I'll always have witnesses and recordings.

Glad you got away with a few laughs, Fremont PD (in my experience) isn't too friendly.
Click to expand...
I lived in Fremont for 37 years, Rosetti must be a real jewel, I've heard his name numerous times, never with a good story attached.
 
R

RaycerX96

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
42
Location
Hayward, Ca, ,
imported post

I have been stopped by him in the past, wasnt fun. Thats why I was surprised by how this went. I still find it amusing that when they saw my gun, one of the officer said "what do we do next?"
 
L

Livermoron

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
228
Location
Livermore, California, USA
imported post

Thanks for the report :)

+some number higher than 1 on ALWAYS RECORDING AUDIO WHILE UOC

As it was said above "if you don't have audio, it never happened". If you do not have a recorder, get one ASAP if you plan to UOC again soon.

From the second your weapon hits your holster to the second you lock it up - record :).

Glad you got through it without any escalation and you kept your wits - good job!

Carry On (after getting your recorder),

Livermoron :cool:
 
C

Cameron

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
64
Location
San Ramon, California, , USA
imported post

RaycerX96 wrote:
He put it on the hood of my car and walked away.
...
So i grabbed my gun stuck it back in the holster, got in my car and left.
Click to expand...

These are the only parts I saw that wasn't really mentioned that I had a problem with. If I were in your situation, I think I would have been more insistant that they re-holster the firearm for me. Whether or not it ended well, it is probably best not to put yourself in a position anywhere near brandishing or, in an extreme case, getting shot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top