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Thread: non lethal ammo?

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    hey, soi will do some research on my own, but i wanted to ask here for PCs/laws, and opinions... what do you guys think about carrying non-lethal ammo on the opposite side of your normal ammo? do you think that we might face times where you could justify deadly force but could also solve the situation without it? non-lethal might be helpfull i think.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    dirtykoala wrote:
    hey, soi will do some research on my own, but i wanted to ask here for PCs/laws, and opinions... what do you guys think about carrying non-lethal ammo on the opposite side of your normal ammo? do you think that we might face times where you could justify deadly force but could also solve the situation without it? non-lethal might be helpfull i think.
    Do they make a .380 beanbag round
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    I have no idea, I think most rounds have a rubber version though.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Snakeshot ammo comes to mind. I once saw a guy that was shot with .38 snakeshot. He made the mistake of trying to rob a drug store for the second time in a week. The 70+ year old owner pulled out a gun and shot him as soon as he walked in the door before he even tried to rob him again. His face looked as red and pot marked as a 15 year old with bad acne.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    To qoute Mal from Firefly: "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!"

    You only fire your weapon in you are in fear for your life.

    When you are in fear for your life, you use the quickest, most effective, most permanent method possible to STOP THE THREAT.

    You don't move up an escalating scale when firing a weapon, an action that is by definition, use of DEADLY FORCE.

    If you are an LEO and are trying to perform riot control, them may be a place for less than lethal rounds, but as an ordinary Joe, you need to remember that your life is on the line and even "Lethal" rounds, don't always stop the threat.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    oc4ever wrote:
    Snakeshot ammo comes to mind. I once saw a guy that was shot with .38 snakeshot. He made the mistake of trying to rob a drug store for the second time in a week. The 70+ year old owner pulled out a gun and shot him as soon as he walked in the door before he even tried to rob him again. His face looked as red and pot marked as a 15 year old with bad acne.
    This is California. If this happened here, then the new drugstore owner would be the pockmarked robber, because he sued the 70+ year old for everything he owned.

    Remember: "A dead man can't sue!"

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    Decolginy, no argument out of me, I don't believe a citizen needs a gun that is less than lethal. Use it in defense of you/ or your families life and nothing else. Stopping crimes in progress is the LEO's jobs and I will stay uninvolved as a good witness( short of a mass shooting). If you have to use a gun, than it is a permanent and final decision for all involved. Any other situation, either flee, or use pepper spray/tasers. I am not going to walk around with a arsenal of all defense options, just the most important ONE that counts. Mr. 1911.

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    You could accidentally grab the wrong magazine also with the non-lethal/less then lethal rounds when you want real bullets.

    I've heard something named "glass rounds" where the bullet can penetrate but pretty much explodes on contact with glass shrouds, or something like that. Never seen em though.


    I carry those hydro shock hollow point rounds. If I'm gonna shoot someone... I'm gonna make it count.

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    Do you mean magsafe? It gets some criticism, and is overpriced, but its good stuff.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    crash5150 wrote:
    You could accidentally grab the wrong magazine also with the non-lethal/less then lethal rounds when you want real bullets.

    I've heard something named "glass rounds" where the bullet can penetrate but pretty much explodes on contact with glass shrouds, or something like that. Never seen em though.


    I carry those hydro shock hollow point rounds. If I'm gonna shoot someone... I'm gonna make it count.
    What you are thinking of is a glaser safety slug.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug

    This is a frangible round that will penetrate soft tissue and will basically break up inside the person.

    It is a jacketed polymer bullet that is filled with birdshot.

    With this type of round you do not have "through and through" shots that can hit someone behind the intended target.


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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    crash5150 wrote:
    I carry those hydro shock hollow point rounds. If I'm gonna shoot someone... I'm gonna make it count.
    Years ago, I shot a bear with those hydro shok .44 mag. It made a jello spot about 1 ft in dia. The other white meat.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    Just remember that there is no such thing as non-lethal ammo. It's called less-lethal. Pepper spray, mace, tear gas, Tasers, rubber bullets, bean bag rounds, etc are all capable of causing death. Pepper spray an asthmatic and they can die. Legally, the use of (less) force is still the use of force, and you must be prepared for the possible consequences. Any use of force against another, even for self defense, must be justified, or else you can end up in jail for assault and battery, or worse. I think it is prudent to have a means of self defense that is less than lethal, but just as there are responsibilities and consequences to carrying a firearm, those also apply to carrying other instruments of force. But I will say unequivocally that I will not hesitate to use lethal force against someone who I believe is an immediate threat to my life and that of my loved ones. They won't get pepper spray or bean bag bullets.
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    This is California. If this happened here, then the new drugstore owner would be the pockmarked robber, because he sued the 70+ year old for everything he owned.


    Well, we all know Kalifornia leads the nation in doing weird, stupid, and moronic (but worthless) stuff.



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    You never know when you're going to need to reload. It would suck to be facing more than one assailant and find yourself loading your last mag and knowing you have minimal stopping power.

    The point of self defense shooting is to cause as much trauma and blood loss as possible in order to incapacitate your target.

    I hope none of us ever have to find out, but it could be a fatal mistake to carry anything but the most effective ammo.
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    Regular Member Ranchero's Avatar
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    Talking to a LEO friend of mine ,he said officers get trained to kill, not just control a situation. 2 on the chest and one on the head. If you are a LEO and you got trained diferent please let me know.
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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Ranchero wrote:
    Talking to a LEO friend of mine ,he said officers get trained to kill, not just control a situation. 2 on the chest and one on the head. If you are a LEO and you got trained diferent please let me know.
    Killing is a potential byproduct of using lethal force to stop the threat. Nothing more, nothing less. I guess that means I was trained differently...

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