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Thread: Hawaii On The Verge Of Joining The USA!!!!!

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    I know this is an Open-Carry site, but I had to share this.

    For years, Sam Slom has authored a bill for CC and for OC, both requiring a permit. Never much support, I personally would not support either of them, for the reason of way too many loopholes for denial.

    But this one is alot more straight-forward. Still needs a few 'tweeks' IMO, but I can support this one. Being an election year, and with McDonald vs Chicago just around the corner, I believe this one has a great chance of passing. Already passed the first senate reading.

    Chime in folks......thoughts, opinions??????

    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessio...ls/SB2495_.pdf

    Words lined thru are part of the current statute, will be changed if this passes.

    C'Mon Hawaii, I know we have quite a few people here that watch this site, let's show as much support for this bill. A Major Change from the current law.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    That is a step in the right direction, it could be they want to get some things in place before "incorporation".

    The "moral" clause bothers not enough description on what that would involve. And the need training is not right and seems ambiguous. The price steep $150.00, they trying to keep our brothers from Wainae from carrying?

    But it doesn't seem to preclude open carry, makes the statement need the permit to carry concealed or unconcealed.

    I was thinking out of the box, with all the mahu's in hawaii, the pink pistols should be actively on board with firearm freedom in Hawaii. Get as many folks interested in their rights as we can.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I have wondered why Hawaii has been allowed to denyits residentstheir right of self-defense by (1) not allowing OCand (2) being a "may issue" CC state but never IN REALITY issuing any permits! This should have been challenged decades ago because it effectively denys one the right to RKBA! A state has to let you carry at least ONE way -- CC or OC -- in order to comply with the 2nd Amendment/RKBA, but in practical reality Hawaii allows neither! THAT should be unconstitutional at the very least.

    WHY has this gone on so long? Is it because the majority of Hawaiians are anti-gun, and so they support these anti-gun laws? Or is it because the people WANT to carry but simply have done nothing to challenge the laws/politicians there?

    I don't know...but I am very pleased to hear there is at least SOME forwardmotion now on these issues!

    Although I am planning a 30-daytrip toOahu in a couple of years (to recon living there for a while, after I move from where I am now), I have been REAL concerned that Hawaii has been one of the most (or THE most?) repressive states thereare for the 2nd Amendment/RKBA duenot only to the points I mentioned above, but also things like having to REGISTER a gun within 3 days of purchase or bringing it into the state. What an anti-gun environment...it's terrible there for a gun-owner!

    As for the COST pf permits, yes, I believe THAT is arbitrary and abused by states, too...it DOES discriminate against the poor, and in NO WAY does processing a permit ACTUALLY cost anything near that amount. And what's to stop "the authorities" down the road from making a permit cost $1000? Nothing. [I believe the whole permit system is and has been -- evenfrom Day One -- illegal...but that's another topc!]

    Whatever, I look forward to Hawaii finally turning this around...and yes, joining with most other states as part of the USA -- we're ALL Americans and we ALL should have the same basic/unalienable rights, regardlessof what state we live in.

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am going to mention another theory and it might be very controversial. Most of the folks running Hawaii are not very Hawaiian.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Previous statement is not controversial. What would be controversial would be a discussion on whether or not one needs a firearm to protect themselves against "natives" or "transplants."

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Statkowski wrote:
    Previous statement is not controversial. What would be controversial would be a discussion on whether or not one needs a firearm to protect themselves against "natives" or "transplants."
    Well having lived there off and on growing up, and I empathize with the Hawaiian folk who don't even have much say in their state government.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I empathize with the Hawaiian folk who don't even have much say in their state government.
    And whose fault is that? Yours? Mine? Nope, it's theirs. If they don't even try to get involved in their own government, then they get the government they deserve.

    Gee, a Republican candidate won a U.S. Senate seat in Massachusetts. Some people thought it was impossible. It turned out otherwise.

    Here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania I can readily communicate, and express my opinions, and have done so, with my Borough Council members, County Commissioners, State Senator and State Representative. The "Hawaiian folk" can do the same. If they don't, or have given up without really, really trying, that's not my problem - it's theirs.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Statkowski wrote:
    I empathize with the Hawaiian folk who don't even have much say in their state government.
    And whose fault is that? Yours? Mine? Nope, it's theirs. If they don't even try to get involved in their own government, then they get the government they deserve.

    Gee, a Republican candidate won a U.S. Senate seat in Massachusetts. Some people thought it was impossible. It turned out otherwise.

    Here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania I can readily communicate, and express my opinions, and have done so, with my Borough Council members, County Commissioners, State Senator and State Representative. The "Hawaiian folk" can do the same. If they don't, or have given up without really, really trying, that's not my problem - it's theirs.
    Ahhhh I didn't mean to start this. Hawaiians are a minority in their own homeland. It is what it is. Most of the folks who call themselves locals are not even Hawaiian. But it is what it is. Hawaiian politics are for the most part dominated by folks of Asian descent.

    I empathize with natives of indigenous areas, who because of shear lack of volume of bodies don't have much effect on local politics (and of politicians who don't want them to be armed). Is all I was saying. I love Hawaii and the locals, indigenous or not they are great folks. And glad to call it my home in many ways.

    It is now part of what is supposed to be a free country and I look forward to them gaining back some rights a lot of other states have.






    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    IF it IS an "Asian mentality" (meaning anti-gun, like most Asian countries are) that is a (or the) major reason why things remain as they are and HAVE been in Hawaii for many decades, then it's about time they lose that mentality and start acting like Americans: Demand their 2nd Amendment/RKBA rights...as any American citizen has a right to do, regardless of ethnicity.

    I know Kalifornia has issues, but Hawaiiseems to be even more repressive...and I don't think Jack Lord -- who certainly helpedHawaii's tourist industrybig time -- did anything but hurt the gun image overthere due to his anti-gun views that came through on Hawaii Five-0. Yeah, I know that was a long time ago, but it the impact remains (and the show is still seen in reruns)...and only reinforces any earlier "anti-gun" attitudes there.

    ...just my guess,

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Do NOT like #6 & #7 at all, but it would be a beginning.

    You'd think that the author would use spell check too..

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Do NOT like #6 & #7 at all, but it would be a beginning.

    You'd think that the author would use spell check too.

    Yata hey
    Agreed. This is not perfect, but it is definately better than what has been offered over the last 5-10 yrs or so.

    The way I figure is, this is a decent start, and we can work to improve it over time.

    I would like to see it pass....it is a good start, and a major improvement over what we have now.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    :celebrateHoly Moly, how did a bill like thisin Hawaii get this far. I read/reread the bill and I do have reservations in some areas but not big enough to not write our "legislators" to pass this bill. We can only hope!!!! The only thing that really sticks in my craw is that even if passed , it is still only county wide. At $150 a pop, real expensive to go state wide. We need everyone around this one. I hadto laugh about the mention ofWaianae, which is where we live.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    samaloney2006 wrote:
    :celebrateHoly Moly, how did a bill like thisin Hawaii get this far. I read/reread the bill and I do have reservations in some areas but not big enough to not write our "legislators" to pass this bill. We can only hope!!!! The only thing that really sticks in my craw is that even if passed , it is still only county wide. At $150 a pop, real expensive to go state wide. We need everyone around this one. I hadto laugh about the mention ofWaianae, which is where we live.
    It is I must have not read it carefully enough. I just assumed you applied for it in your county and the permit was state wide.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    samaloney2006 wrote:
    :celebrateHoly Moly, how did a bill like thisin Hawaii get this far. I read/reread the bill and I do have reservations in some areas but not big enough to not write our "legislators" to pass this bill. We can only hope!!!! The only thing that really sticks in my craw is that even if passed , it is still only county wide. At $150 a pop, real expensive to go state wide. We need everyone around this one. I hadto laugh about the mention ofWaianae, which is where we live.
    It is I must have not read it carefully enough. I just assumed you applied for it in your county and the permit was state wide.
    I believe this is a state wide shall issue permit bill - the section referring to only in the county of issuance has been lined out, removed.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    :celebrateThanks to "sudden valley gunner" and "grapeshot" I stand corrected. I burned off a copy of the proposed law, studied it and you guys are correct. It is state wide. The county bit is crossed off. It probably will not make it all the way to the governor but it's further along than it ever has been, thank you to Senaor Sam Slom, Ed Case and (can't read the middle signature).BTW I have lived in Waianawfor about eight years now but am still a resident of Washington State. The biggest reason I do not become a permanent residentof Hawaii is because of the gun laws. I'm licensed to carry in 34 states because of my Washington residency (Washington and Florida permits). My wife is a resident and does vote pro-gun. Apparently there are quite few of us that belong to "opencarry.org". What say to a get together at Zippy's or some place?Get to meet each other.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    samaloney2006 wrote:
    :celebrateThanks to "sudden valley gunner" and "grapeshot" I stand corrected. I burned off a copy of the proposed law, studied it and you guys are correct. It is state wide. The county bit is crossed off. It probably will not make it all the way to the governor but it's further along than it ever has been, thank you to Senaor Sam Slom, Ed Case and (can't read the middle signature).BTW I have lived in Waianawfor about eight years now but am still a resident of Washington State. The biggest reason I do not become a permanent residentof Hawaii is because of the gun laws. I'm licensed to carry in 34 states because of my Washington residency (Washington and Florida permits). My wife is a resident and does vote pro-gun. Apparently there are quite few of us that belong to "opencarry.org". What say to a get together at Zippy's or some place?Get to meet each other.
    Joined together by common bond, you just might help this to become reality one day.

    I would love to visit the islands, but alas will not give up my rights - least of all my RKBA. Beautiful place though, I am told.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I might be back in June would love to have an opencarry meet even if its not open carry. Zippy's would be awesome. Maybe an empty holster meet?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I thought about the empty holster. However with Senator Slom's bill sort of inching forward I think we should not draw any attention to ourselves just yet. Let (hopefully) the bill pass and then there will be all sorts of folks involved. In my experience the appropriate way is move along slowly and nobody pays attention.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Ordinarily I disagree with withholding engaging in legal activity. But I concur with you on this one. Hopefully I will be back in June. I missed when this bill goes to vote? When is that?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Vote hasn't been scheduled as of yet, keeping an eye on it.

    I agree with Samaloney, I'd rather focus on this bill, at least for now. But, I definately would be up for an empty holster event sometime in the future.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    :?At this point in time I would not want to speculate on the bills survival considering the legislator's paranoia about firearms.The Hawaii Rifle Association verbally backed the new police chiefAlealoha (I think I spelled that right) I do not know how pro gun he is but I have a feeling that he is not anti-gun. So he may not voice an opinion such all the other chiefs.I would not want to speculate on how many bad guys carry guns but we all know that story. Anyway the consensus of opinion tends toward a meeting of some sort. It might be a good idea to have apicnic of some sorts and of course families are definitely invited, here is the but, no holsters yet. When the final outcome of the bill is out then it is time to think about it. I wish I knew a way to get some others interested there are a lot of other shooters here. I go out to KoKo head on off days (midweek) and there are quite a few.

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    Samaloney, how many people here in Hawaii are on this forum? I only know of a few. It might be a good idea to see how many we can get together, from here andthe Hawaii2A forum, and come up with some ideas RAPIDLY on spreading the word and getting support for this bill. Flyers, tri-folds, etc. I'm up for anything.

    Ideas???
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    Any news on this lately? I'm all for it and would like to show some support. I don't know if anyone read the Hawaii Rifleman a few months ago, but there was an article in there about there being only one private citizen who applied for a CCW permit in 2008 and was denied... That was me... Funny thing, I was never told that I was denied. HPD never sent me back anything... I know they got the application letter however, because my friend at firearms found it folded up in my file...

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    You're a celebrity then! I wonder why only one person -- you -- in the whole year of 2008 even APPLIED...makes me wonder why the lack of CC applications from the people of HI. Do they want SOME form of carry or not? I also wonder if a petition were to be circulated, would ANYONE sign it...except YOU! ;-)

    I think the only way to change things there with the "no issue" police chief/PD is to force them to do it, meaning make HI a shall-issue state instead of may-issue (but they never issue!). At least that would take care of CC. Then something on OC could be pursued. I don't know which would be the easiest/most likely to succeed -- CC or OC --but at least one route should be taken. For now.

    As I've said earlier, I don't see how HI has gotten away for so many decades with effectively (and IMO, unconstitutionally) preventing people from CCingor OCing. The only place the peoplecan protect themselves is at home (where their guns are -- if any) butthey can't stay home all the time! So what then?

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    japaneezy wrote:
    Any news on this lately? I'm all for it and would like to show some support. I don't know if anyone read the Hawaii Rifleman a few months ago, but there was an article in there about there being only one private citizen who applied for a CCW permit in 2008 and was denied... That was me... Funny thing, I was never told that I was denied. HPD never sent me back anything... I know they got the application letter however, because my friend at firearms found it folded up in my file...
    Unfraken believable - definitely time for some changes.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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