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Thread: Washington Post Says Mark Kirk Likely to Win Obama's Illinois Seat

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    See:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?nav=hcmodule

    http://www.house.gov/list/speech/il1...legalguns.html


    Snip:

    "One of the basic functions of government is keeping people safe. Illegal guns are pouring into our communities and we should give law enforcement the tools they need to fight crime. Earlier today, standing alongside Mayor Daley, Palatine Mayor Rita Mullins and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, I helped inaugurate the bipartisan Congressional Task Force Against Illegal Guns. Together with my co-chairs, Reps. Charles Rangel (D-NY), John Conyers (D-MI) and Peter King (R-NY), we will work with mayors from around the country to enact common sense measures to stem the flow of illegal guns. We have a responsibility to stop the death and devastation caused by illegal guns in the hands of criminals."

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Mayors Urge Crackdown on Illegal Guns

    By SEWELL CHAN and ANDREW JACOBS

    Published: January 23, 2007

    WASHINGTON, Jan. 23 — Mayors from some of the nation’s largest cities gathered here today to urge Congress to crack down on the sale of illegal firearms. But their expanding coalition, led by Mayors Michael R. Bloomberg of New York and Thomas M. Menino of Boston, has begun to encounter resistance among some advocates for gun owners.

    The coalition of mayors announced the creation of a bipartisan task force of four House members that will try to introduce legislation in the new Congress cracking down on illegal guns. The mayors also unveiled new poll results showing that most Americans support stricter gun laws.

    The daylong meeting of the coalition, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, was the biggest event so far in an effort that began last April with a meeting of about 15 mayors at Gracie Mansion in Manhattan. More than 120 mayors have since joined the coalition; about 40 attended the meeting today, including the mayors of Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, Seattle, Washington, Minneapolis, Hartford and Newark.

    Mr. Menino said he hoped the gathering, at the Cannon House Office Building, would send a message. “Illegal guns are a national problem that demands a national response,” he said, adding, “We are only as strong as each of our members.”

    But there were signs of emerging opposition to the mayors’ effort. The New York Sun reported last week that Jared Fuhriman, the mayor of Idaho Falls, Idaho, was the first and so far only mayor to drop out of the coalition, saying he thought the coalition was going too far. The coalition now includes mayors from 44 states and the District of Columbia. (Arizona, Idaho, Kansas, New Hampshire, West Virginia and Wyoming are not represented.)

    Several pro-gun groups criticized the coalition’s efforts. In a news release, they called Mr. Bloomberg “the Manhattan gun grabber” and questioned the propriety of his use of undercover sting operations and civil litigation to crack down on gun dealers. The National Rifle Association has been sharply critical of Mayor Bloomberg.

    Members of the Mayors Against Illegal Guns insisted that they respected the Second Amendment right to bear arms. Mr. Bloomberg said he was not trying to curb existing gun rights. “That’s ideological nonsense and we’ve just got to move past it,” he said. “Respecting the rights of gun owners while cracking down on illegal guns are completely compatible goals and we are committed to both.”

    The creation of the task force might signal that the issue of illegal guns is gaining traction in Congress — though with the war in Iraq, climate change and other looming issues, it might be difficult for guns to become a priority.

    The two Democrats on the task force are Representatives Charles B. Rangel of New York, the new chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, and John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, the new chairman of the Judiciary Committee. The Republicans on the task force are Representatives Peter T. King of New York, the ranking Republican on the Homeland Security Committee, and Mark S. Kirk of Illinois[/i][/b].

    The task force will focus on eliminating the Tiahrt amendment, a controversial provision that has blocked cities from gaining access to, and using, gun-trace data collected by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The task force says it will also “work to enact common sense measures” to stem the flow of illegal guns, officials said.

    The new survey announced by the mayors involved 803 adults from Jan. 10 to 15 by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research, a Democratic polling firm, and the Tarrance Group, a Republican firm. The survey found that 56 percent of respondents said they favored stricter gun laws. The margin of error was about 3.5 percent, plus or minus.


    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Well if all guns were legal and people allowed to exercise their rights, illegal gun crime would not happen. Crime would still happen, just not ILLEGAL gun crime.

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    56% favor stricter gun laws?? 56% don't know the gun laws already on the books.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    c45man wrote:
    56% favor stricter gun laws?? 56% don't know the gun laws already on the books.

    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    What the hell is an "illegal" gun???? :?

    It should be noted that the article that rodbender posted is from 2007. Allot has changed since then, like a whole bunch of the mayors that originally signed on to Bloomberg's gun grabbers club have dropped out after they realized what it was about.

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    I also noticed that the second link Donkey posted is also 3 years old. Again, allot can change in 3 years, including a persons political views.

    It would serve well to find out if Kirk still rides with the Bloomer gang. He may not.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    What the hell is an "illegal" gun???? :?

    It should be noted that the article that rodbender posted is from 2007. Allot has changed since then, like a whole bunch of the mayors that originally signed on to Bloomberg's gun grabbers club have dropped out after they realized what it was about.

    I don't think Mark Kirk has dropped out.

    No mention of him resigning as co-chair of the Task Force . . .his website for the Republican primary doesn't mention guns at all.

    If he is elected, he will be not be the only Republican anti in the Senate.

    But he will be the only Republican leader of the anti-gun movement in the Senate.


    (edited to make me look smarter)

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    snip: "The Associated Press asked every Republican and Democratic candidate running in the Senate primaries the following question: "Please explain your views on gun control, including whether the federal ban on "assault weapons" should be revised."

    The following is Mark Kirk's answer: "I support the Second Amendment and sensible measures to reduce illegal gun violence.""

    http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=351746

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    Well, just as long as he's not against "legal" gun violence.



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    Code:
    The following is Mark Kirk's answer: "I support the Second Amendment and sensible measures to reduce illegal gun violence.""
    Mr. Kirk must understand that you can't have it both ways.

    BTW, WTF is "sensible measures" anyway? Was GCA68 an example? or NFA? (all retorical questions)This fellow may have a Republican stamp on the cover, but I'm not so sure what's in the book???

    OTH, my idea of sensible measures to reduce illegal gun violence is to restore Illinoisans rights to keep and bear arms. It's still true that if the criminals think any regular Joe may be carrying he/she will think twice before an attackor possibly die trying.





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    There are alternatives on the Republican ballot. Illinois Judge Donald Lowery, for example. On his website (the link to which, for some reason I cannot paste), he says:

    Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution
    Grades tell the story about a candidate’s positions on issues. Congressman Mark Kirk’s grades based on his voting record regarding the following issue is very informative.

    Second Amendment of the U. S. Constitution

    Congressman Mark Kirk has repeatedly claimed he supports the Second Amendment; however, he has a gun-control voting record. He is a supporter of reinstating the assault weapons ban. Therefore, the National Rifle Association has given Congressman Kirk a grade of “F.” The Gun Owners of America organization gave Kirk a grade of “F-.”

    ANALYSIS: Mark Kirk and people like him use “buzz” words that evoke emotions and are designed to mislead the public about firearms. As many know, most of these weapons that are labeled assault weapons are sporting and hunting guns. Just because a weapon has a detachable clip or is semi-automatic does not make that weapon inherently more dangerous. The use of a weapon is determined by the person, not by the type of weapon. It is not right to penalize law-abiding citizens and ban a class of weapons because some criminals misuse them.

    Judge Lowery’s position: As a life/endowment member of the National Rifle Association, I do not support restrictions on law-abiding citizens’ rights to keep and bear arms. “Common Sense” dictates that law-abiding citizens’ rights to use and possess firearms should be protected, but gun ownership and possession by criminals should be restricted. My position regarding Americans’ rights under the Second Amendment will not change based on the venue from where I speak.




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    The good folks of Illinios are going to have to scrtuinze carefully the candidates, between now and Nov. Let's hope they make a good choice, for a change.

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    The Liberals (communists) need to create panic and scare tactics to be needed and sometimes worshiped, example " oh he really does care about us" says the sheep. Thats why the liberals use healthcare, guns, global warming now climate change. They need these things to pass their agenda. Its that simple.

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    wethepeople wrote:
    The Liberals (communists) need to create panic and scare tactics to be needed and sometimes worshiped, example " oh he really does care about us" says the sheep. Thats why the liberals use healthcare, guns, global warming now climate change. They need these things to pass their agenda. Its that simple.
    So called conservatives have "across the board" tax cuts and tort reform to crow about. They also "use" their issues to "pass their agenda" whichoften includes getting re-elected (at least if they've been elected in the first place).

    I don't doubt that Kirk actually cares about gun issues, norbegrudge him because he has issues that he claims to care about. I just disagree with him on guns.

    And on this Illinois primary day, I am disappointed that hemay win his party's nomination largely on the strength of voters who say that they care about the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.

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    CBS callsthe racefor Kirk by a wide margin.

    Perhaps y'all should consider the "Coffee Party" instead. . . .

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    So when was the last time a hard pro RKBA candidate from either party won a statewide office in Illinois? I'll bet it has been a while. I say I have low to no expectations from anyone elected in that state when it comes to rights.

    ETA: I suppose while its a risky strategy with a high blowback risk, electing antigun folks who would themselves caucus with and put into place a more progun regime of leadership could be advantageous to the cause. However you would certainly have to put up with a reincarnation of antigun politician like the late Sen Lincoln Chaffee.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Has anyone figured out what an "illegal gun" is yet?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    An illegal gun according to Obamanation is any gun owned by a private citizen.

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    wethepeople wrote:
    An illegal gun according to Obamanation is any gun owned by a private citizen.
    A good-enough portion of that nation disagrees:

    http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/AWB...oHolder309.pdf



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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    The Donkey wrote:
    wethepeople wrote:
    An illegal gun according to Obamanation is any gun owned by a private citizen.
    A good-enough portion of that nation disagrees:

    http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/AWB...oHolder309.pdf

    Hey, Donk, I think he is referring to the Obama Administration, not congress.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    ixtow wrote:
    Has anyone figured out what an "illegal gun" is yet?
    It is a misnomer and a scare tactic there is no such thing as an illegal gun. There are though guns that are illegal to possess.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    Has anyone figured out what an "illegal gun" is yet?
    It is a misnomer and a scare tactic there is no such thing as an illegal gun. There are though guns that are illegal to possess.
    There should be NO SUCH THING AS AN "ILLEGAL GUN." If the Police/Military can have it the GENERAL PUBLIC SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE IT. I say if you can carry it you should be able to own it...After all, the US CONSTITUTION says in the 2nd amendment the "RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    JoeSparky wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    Has anyone figured out what an "illegal gun" is yet?
    It is a misnomer and a scare tactic there is no such thing as an illegal gun. There are though guns that are illegal to possess.
    There should be NO SUCH THING AS AN "ILLEGAL GUN." If the Police/Military can have it the GENERAL PUBLIC SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE IT. I say if you can carry it you should be able to own it...After all, the US CONSTITUTION says in the 2nd amendment the "RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."
    And the whole argument against it comes from people who somehow manage to make those words me "the right of the government to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." I don't see any constitutional provision that explicitly provides a right to be armed to the government. It just isn't there.


    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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