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Thread: lansing event feb. 7th

  1. #1
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    in light of what happened january 30th at the lansing ponderosa i feel that we need to spend time in lansing increasing awareness,desensitizing the publicand showing the police dept. we will not take being unlawfully detained.

    so hows the intersection of cedar and jolly sound.

    sunday,feb. 7th 2010,either 12 noon or 2pm(give opinions on a preferred time,we can choose on wed.)

    then we can walk a block or 2 north to mcdonalds,they seem to like the business of any law abiding citizen.

    and a 1 1/2 mile walk to the south precinct,and back perhaps?

    lemme know...
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  2. #2
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    My suggestion would be; go back to Ponderosa and talk with the manager, since it didn't seem to be his idea and didn't appear to have a problem with you guys being there until "SUGGESTED" by the pd to put up a sign. I would talk to them and explain the cops were the problem and would they mind if we come back. What better way to show the pd started the whole thing (not that it isn't obvious) than to return and have lunch....WITH PERMISSION! Then when pd shows up...tell THEM...they were not invited!

    ETA: This is one time I will have to agree, this needs an in you face response.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    ill goto talk with the manager today about it,and record it on audio.

    i still like the idea of a protest on the corner of cedar and jolly however,it seems to be one of the more busier intersections in town.

    i tried callingponderosa corporate and i will have to wait until monday,they are closed on weekends.

    i am writing them a thing in they're complaint form now however.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  4. #4
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I did that last year, Ponderosa rep stated to me what ever the state law allows and is left up to each store manager. Since it is a individually owned franchise, each store sets their own rules.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    we did have permission prior to the event,i called and spoke witha manager before posting the event thread.

    we had permission,with management being aware that we would be openly carrying,in accordance with state law.

    however the manager that was working at the time of the event was NOTthe one i had talked to,and it is entirely possible that the informationregarding it had not been given to this other manager.

    mcdonalds seems more than happy to have our business however,theydid not say one thing to us.

    these two older customers said that they were happy to bein probably the safest place in the countythough.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  6. #6
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Exactly, go back to whom ever you spoke to and set it up with him again. If possible, get it in writing just in case he is not the one on duty when we show up. It would be a definite message to Lansing pd that we won't be intimidated by their unlawful practices.

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    I suggest we wait to hear back from the city. They have been sent a complaint and depending on how they respond, decide if we want to pursue a large lunch in Lansing.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  8. #8
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Agreed.....you seemed a little miffed in the video my friend....need some of my Prozac? :P:P

    Well done by all of you. :celebrate

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    I suggest we wait to hear back from the city. They have been sent a complaint and depending on how they respond, decide if we want to pursue a large lunch in Lansing.
    i still would like to see a turnout on this event i posted,i feel that it is needed,and that the city of lansing may take awhile to resolve this issue.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  10. #10
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    I suggest we wait to hear back from the city. They have been sent a complaint and depending on how they respond, decide if we want to pursue a large lunch in Lansing.
    I would suggest that this is the correct way in which to proceed. It is the logical and methodical manner in which to behave in order to maintain a professional and law abiding demeanor not only for opencarry.org (you can be sure this forum is being monitored by LE and all interested parties) but also for all those who open carry in the future whether members of this group or not.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    You guys realize many of us are going to be at Cabelas manning tables on Feb 5,6, & 7th those of us who would want to be at another Lansing event. We need to start coordinating and organizing events better. Just posting the first day in your mind I dont think helps. Some protocols on what to do I feel will make this better.

  12. #12
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    i completely forgot about the cabelas event,my mistake.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  13. #13
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    My concern about waiting for a response from the city is that it makes it where we are exercising our rights on their timetable.

    What if it takes a month? What if they choose not to respond at all?

    If we wait 1-6 months before reappearing in Lansing, then they have "won", since they have "kept us out of there". (In their minds...)

    I think waiting encourages them to respond inappropriately again.

    Instead, we show up every weekend (or every other weekend, whatever), in public forums (marches, picnics, etc.), until they ignore us. Once they realize that harassment won't be rewarded, it will quit.

    When people are trying to suppress another, they will always start with "bullying", hoping that the bullied will just not think it worth the fight, and drop the subject.



    In regards to planning better, I agree. We should co-ordinate better, so that if we do get asked to leave private property, we have an agreed-on spot to rendezvous. Phone contact lists, attorney-on-call in the area in case of arrests, press releases to media, etc.

    We need to, for our own sakes, be prepared. We do it every day in regards to physical threats. We should apply the same level of preparedness to political threats.

  14. #14
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    very well put.

    if we can think of a NEW date to hold this on,then i can pm the moderator and have the thread title changed.


    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    very well put.

    if we can think of a NEW date to hold this on,then i can pm the moderator and have the thread title changed.

    *
    It's not just about posting a random date as fast as you can. Let's find a date that works for most people. I agree we should have an event soon I'd like to see one on a the following Saturday but let's see what everyones availability is and go from there. Regardless of what the city decided to say about it we still should do a march and a meet & eat for the cause. Please relax and we will figure something out.

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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    very well put.

    if we can think of a NEW date to hold this on,then i can pm the moderator and have the thread title changed.

    No need to. When all the logistics have been worked out, just simply start a new thread and let this one die.

    Also, there's no requirementfor 20 or 30 OC'ers to participate at any event. A few OC'ing at a Ponderosa, McDonald's, a walk downtown, etc, is just as effective, especially with a higher frequency; e.g. everyday or every weekend.

  17. #17
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    My advice is to go through your coordinators. I love seeing people step up and plan events. It helps out tremendously. Just run everything through your coordinator as this is what we are here for. We will assist you in every way possible in making sure dates are effective, and any permissions if needed are obtained.

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    sprinklerguy28 wrote:
    My advice is to go through your coordinators. I love seeing people step up and plan events. It helps out tremendously. Just run everything through your coordinator as this is what we are here for. We will assist you in every way possible in making sure dates are effective, and any permissions if needed are obtained.
    It would probably be a good idea that after a time and place has been set the coordinator contacts the owner or managers and make sure management that's there the day of the event understand. Keep in mind that it may take more then one location to get a working one.

    People should also have a 2nd and 3rd... pick available as well in case some dont pan out.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Here is an idea that my brother an I worked out in the car on the way back from BC.

    Plan to meet at a central location IE a gunstore or range is fine if available... or a park/ public parking lot. NOTE if a place of business find out if the owner minds us parking in his or her lot for the duration of the event. We don't want to cut into business.

    That is the only location that needs to be up on the website. Then have several eating establishments scoped out beforehand with all permissions granted.

    The final decision about where to go can be made at the meeting place on the day of the event.

    This will preempt any LEO interference such as we encountered in BC.

    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Here is an idea that my brother an I worked out in the car on the way back from BC.

    Plan to meet at a central location IE a gunstore or range is fine if available... or a park/ public parking lot. NOTE if a place of business find out if the owner minds us parking in his or her lot for the duration of the event. We don't want to cut into business.

    That is the only location that needs to be up on the website. Then have several eating establishments scoped out beforehand with all permissions granted.

    The final decision about where to go can be made at the meeting place on the day of the event.

    This will preempt any LEO interference such as we encountered in BC.
    The problem with that is it make's it difficult to speak to managers or owners of an establishment without knowing where the event could possibly be. I do think we could have some set of approved places that were contacted before on the list to choose ready to go to go over at central meeting place. Sounds like a good idea to me.

  21. #21
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    You really only need one and a backup... just not posting a business that could be coerced will most likely be enough.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  22. #22
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    I am adding this topic to the agenda for the next MOC board meeting on April 6th. As of right now MOC,Inc is not going to hold or organize a protest. First we are going to try and work with the department as well as city officials to resolve the issue. If that does not work then we will take the next steps.



  23. #23
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    i just emailed the LEO packet to the lansing chief of police,and politely expressed my concerns about the responding officers at ponderosa.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Generaldet wrote:
    I am adding this topic to the agenda for the next MOC board meeting on April 6th. As of right now MOC,Inc is not going to hold or organize a protest. First we are going to try and work with the department as well as city officials to resolve the issue. If that does not work then we will take the next steps.
    This doesnt mean if people want to meet and march or eat they cant do it. Does it?

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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    i just emailed the LEO packet to the lansing chief of police,and politely expressed my concerns about the responding officers at ponderosa.
    Do as you like Lil (it's appreciated don't get wrong), but I would recommend letting the Brass of MOC handle it at this point.

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